Quote from: AsenRG;1036439I passed on all the SW movies after the first 6 (no matter how you number them), and have watched maybe one Trek movies and some series. No plans on continuing:).

As long as the one Star Trek movie was The Wrath of Khan, there's little to be gained from the rest IMO. (Some people claim later seasons of the Clone Wars are worthwhile, but I'm still scarred from my failed attempts to enjoy the first few episodes.)

Quote from: jeff37923;1036393Although years have passed, finally Mistwell and I agree on something again.

LOL too true. I figure we agree around once a year or so.  Well, more like we agree pretty often, I just tend to respond less often when I agree. Because "What Jeff Said" seems kinda silly sometimes.

Quote from: soltakss;1036415In that scenario, the PC is fighting for their life and fighting a local danger. In this case, no, the PC is not racist. However, if the orcs go home and the PC spends the rest of their life hunting down and killing orcs, out of revenge, then that crosses the line into racism/speciesm.

Ok, it crosses the line. So? Who cares? What difference does it make? It's happening in a FICTIONAL GAME. Are SJWs going to start a social network shit storm that "So-and-so's character in an RPG is a racist!"? LOL :rolleyes:

Quote from: Graewulf;1036476Ok, it crosses the line. So? Who cares? What difference does it make? It's happening in a FICTIONAL GAME. Are SJWs going to start a social network shit storm that "So-and-so's character in an RPG is a racist!"? LOL :rolleyes:

I dunno, no one I interact with suggests I'm a murderer for killing fantasy orcs. And I've never met anyone who qualifies as the "SJWs" who keep getting described here. The contingent that brings up politics to interfere with my gaming is mainly on this site*, and is the anti-"SJW" chorus.

* Well, I have avoided some sites due their dense & heavy moderation, social "correctness", and disallowance of griping about playstyles I can't stand. Well, on one site I did get a moderator warning (and censoring) recently for making a "political statement" by stating that the Galactic Empire in Star Wars was fascist. :rolleyes: WTF...

In my first reply to this thread, I think I showed that I take the idea of morality in games rather seriously and find the idea of looking at the thought patterns in games interesting... but I would never try to ban violent games or games with mindless massacre. And of course it would just be stupid-wrong to say someone who does is a "racist murderer".

Needlessly slaughtering prisoners or backstabbing your mercenaries so you don't have to pay them or wanting to play a vampire game where you farm blood slaves gets distasteful to me in games (or players) that take themselves seriously and expect people to treat the people who do it as sympathetic. But that's more of a continuity and authenticity issue to me than anything else, and not political at all.

Quote from: Skarg;1036463As long as the one Star Trek movie was The Wrath of Khan, there's little to be gained from the rest IMO. (Some people claim later seasons of the Clone Wars are worthwhile, but I'm still scarred from my failed attempts to enjoy the first few episodes.)

Try Star Wars Rebels.

Quote from: Graewulf;1036476Ok, it crosses the line. So? Who cares? What difference does it make? It's happening in a FICTIONAL GAME. Are SJWs going to start a social network shit storm that "So-and-so's character in an RPG is a racist!"? LOL :rolleyes:

Personally, as I mentioned before, I don't mind that a PC is racist. If all my PCs were racist, then, yes, that would be a concern, same way that if all my PCs were rapist-murderers.

I know someone who is completely anti-racist at all levels, but he played a racist PC. Well, his interpretation of the cultural background and cult was that the PC was probably racist, so he played it that way. He didn't like it particularly, but carried on as it seemed to fit.

Quote from: Skarg;1036463As long as the one Star Trek movie was The Wrath of Khan, there's little to be gained from the rest IMO. (Some people claim later seasons of the Clone Wars are worthwhile, but I'm still scarred from my failed attempts to enjoy the first few episodes.)

This is a wrong opinion. Star Trek VI is the best Trek movie.

Quote from: Scrivener of Doom;1036507Try Star Wars Rebels.

Ok thanks, I'll give it a look.

Quote from: Ulairi;1036533This is a wrong opinion. Star Trek VI is the best Trek movie.

I feel your pain. Oh wait, that's V.

Quote from: soltakss;1036523Personally, as I mentioned before, I don't mind that a PC is racist. If all my PCs were racist, then, yes, that would be a concern, same way that if all my PCs were rapist-murderers.

I know someone who is completely anti-racist at all levels, but he played a racist PC. Well, his interpretation of the cultural background and cult was that the PC was probably racist, so he played it that way. He didn't like it particularly, but carried on as it seemed to fit.

My point is why do current social trends, social science, and politics have to be labeled, quantified, and assimilated into and/or with regard to a fictional game? It doesn't. I've played RPGs for 35 years and I can't recall a single instance where anyone's character was ever called a racist because of racial hatreds that were part of their race/culture in the game, so why is it becoming a big deal now? It shouldn't be.

Quote from: soltakss;1036449Just Orcs? Yep, racist.

Does it other kinds of creature? Not racist.

OTOH, if you're not an Orc, you probably prefer the anti-Orc racist to the nihilistic sadist torturer:). If you had to pick between the two, I mean. Obviously anyone sane and not power-hungry would rather stay away from anyone who would torture any life form capable of feeling pain...
(I'm fine with the "torture" of clay golems, yes).

Also, isn't torturing Orcs specieist, not racist?

And frankly, I'm fine with players of racist characters, until and unless I start suspecting that it's a trait they share OOC.

Quote from: Skarg;1036463As long as the one Star Trek movie was The Wrath of Khan, there's little to be gained from the rest IMO. (Some people claim later seasons of the Clone Wars are worthwhile, but I'm still scarred from my failed attempts to enjoy the first few episodes.)

I don't remember the title/number. Let's just say I wasn't as impressed as I was with the Dune movies.
The Dune movies that I think are a poor rendition of the depth of the novels, mind you;).

Quote from: AsenRG;1036542And frankly, I'm fine with players of racist characters, until and unless I start suspecting that it's a trait they share OOC.

So... it would bother you if the player is "racist" towards a fictional people? I've had players that despise elves (sometimes expressed in their characters, often not), and it just never mattered to me.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1036545So... it would bother you if the player is "racist" towards a fictional people? I've had players that despise elves (sometimes expressed in their characters, often not), and it just never mattered to me.

And t doesn't matter to him either.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1036545So... it would bother you if the player is "racist" towards a fictional people? I've had players that despise elves (sometimes expressed in their characters, often not), and it just never mattered to me.

I never said "towards a fictional people".
The character can be racist towards orcs and goblins, or in the case of elves, towards all non-elves. The player can be racist, period, and use orcs and goblins as stand-by terms for real world people.
This is a mistaken approach, but it is not limited to SJWs, believe me.

All the racist players I've had loved elves and/or lizardmen, BTW;). And I've heard real life racists referring to certain minorities as "orcs", even though they weren't into RPGs to the best of my knowledge.

Quote from: AsenRG;1036566I never said "towards a fictional people".
The character can be racist towards orcs and goblins, or in the case of elves, towards all non-elves. The player can be racist, period, and use orcs and goblins as stand-by terms for real world people.
This is a mistaken approach, but it is not limited to SJWs, believe me.

All the racist players I've had loved elves and/or lizardmen, BTW;). And I've heard real life racists referring to certain minorities as "orcs", even though they weren't into RPGs to the best of my knowledge.

I've lost track of if they thread is about racist players or racist characters. I have no problem with the latter. For game set in violent, more primitive and visceral times, hatred and contempt for other species, for other nationalities and ethnic backgrounds would be par for the course. Its doesn't mean the players are advocating those things or share them.  These are role playing games with some components taken from Acting and writing, a person playing out a role is not supporting that role.

AsenRG, I don't think you're suggesting anything against this, your post just brought these thoughts to mind.

A racist player (particularly one the brings their issues to the table/online venus) is another kettle. But, IMO, its up to the people involved to make their choice if they want to share their free time with that person. I wouldn't, barring some odd circumstances but its not my call to make for them.

I've also "orcs" used a racial slur but not by anyone not involved in gaming though. I don't think there is any intentional* message behind the nature of orcs or other non humans but it would be somewhat obtuse to ignore that a line can be drawn and ignore or decry that or that it can can give a negative impression to some especially those looking in from the outside or non Caucasian gamers.

I've only had a couple of non white players look askance and their issues where settled when they got more information. But the impression is possible, even if unintentional. If it comes up, I think its best address frankly sand directly by the people involved.

*Dogwhistles, innuendo and implication are real and it serves to really muddy the waters when assholes have co-opted role playing for their racist fantasies or racial preaching. I've seen it more in sci-fi/modern setting than fantasy but I have less personal experience. And its been individual games, not the industry as a whole or professional writers. Every occupation has assholes, '-isms' are prevalent enough that there's going to be some overlap in just about anything.

I hate Kender. I do not allow them in my games. If someone wants to play a halfling they have to sign a pledge to NOT be "Kender-like" or ish. Or ever anything Kender. Ever

On a serious note, I had a chap a few weeks ago, whilst we were making plans to form a new group who abruptly stated "Just for full disclosure I'm black". I laughed. I was honestly perplexed that something like this had to be stated. So he regales me a story of someone he met online, then talked to over the phone, and when they met the dude was shocked he was black. And expressed his shock uncomfortably for an uncomfortable amount of time with some inference that "had he known" they wouldn't be playing together.

It was disheartening, but I get the other side of the argument. I don't equate fantasy with reality. I think you can pretend to be a terrible person and still be a great person IRL. But I also get the frustration and demoralizing nature of actual racism and how having racism in a game could bring up those feelings. For me, it's about understanding my players and trying to make a fun environment. If everyone is game, and on the same page, we can focus on the make-believe and leave real-life out of it. If even for a few hours.