That brings up a really troublesome point about AI using in commercial products, lawsuits.  In the US, anyone can sue you for a perceived theft.  Even if you win the case, you are still out the time and cost of the proceedings.  And, the plaintiff probably has inflicted damage to your product and brand regardless of the outcome.

I'm gonna go off on a limb here and say that "worker solidarity" disappeared the moment liberal Twitterati started popping off about learn to code.

That is to say, it's not so much that "worker solidarity" disappeared, but rather liberal Twitterati made people hate them. So when excessively woke, terminally online far left antifa extremists lose their jobs to AI, we all celebrate. It's not just conservatives.

It's not just people who draw, either, it's writers and translators. Most anime fans would rather have a 1:1 Japanese-to-English translation than whatever the localizers spit out. Left-wing artists losing their jobs means no more Man Jaw Industrial Complex. The writers who gave us pronouns and Body Type A / Body Type B? Also out of a job.

Your average normie doesn't think poorly of the coal miner from West Virginia, because that guy never did anything to them. They have some sympathy for that guy losing his job due to automation. Meanwhile, they actually do want to see the insufferable left-wing redditor out of a job because they can't compete with AI at producing tumblr fanart slop.

I have no antipathy towards AI. Most AI art I've seen doesn't impress me, but I don't hate that it exists, and I've used it as a starting point for some of my own uses (non-commercial) because my visual arts skills are potato. I also have no problem with AI being trained by anything put on the Internet (i.e., out in the public sphere).

Heck, things change. We used to need professional photographers for a good looking photo. Now everyone carries a camera with them and the need for a pro has dwindled. Other arts (and industries) will go the same way. Just evolution.

I agree with some of the posters though in that, if you say you won't use AI and you want to use live artists, don't lie. But the "Thou Shalt Not Lie" goes beyond AI.

Quote from: Corolinth on February 06, 2025, 12:47:51 PMIt's not just people who draw, either, it's writers and translators. Most anime fans would rather have a 1:1 Japanese-to-English translation than whatever the localizers spit out.

I find the whole localizers who input their own agendas thing to be extremely vile.  Put me in the literal translation camp with maybe a foot note to explain a little bit of actual culture along the way.

Top Music Attorney actually does a pretty good analysis of the US Copyright Office's recent report.

The short of it is, if you want to register your work for copyright, disclose and include discernable elements of your own human effort.  Prompt only works that are 100% AI generated work will not cut it.

As a professional illustrator (and someone who's done some work in the RPG world) I'm not vehemently opposed to AI art for low budget projects. I think it gives people with little or no money an option to have art in their games.

I think that some of it can look ropey, but if you get the keywords right, it can look pretty damn good too. I really like the way Red Room have used it. And to be fair to those guys, they hired several of us to work on their projects also - so they have a hybrid model.

My only two reservations about AI art are:

First, it will be a big problem for artists if the larger companies who can pay start using it and won't pay.

Last, the way the AI was trained using people's work without their knowledge, consent and with no remuneration. That was extremely unethical. But the genie is out of the bottle now, so-to-speak, so I don't hold any ill will to those small developers who are using it for their RPGs.

And I'm pretty surprised at the way these small devs are being attacked so vehemently.

Quote from: zircher on February 07, 2025, 05:00:52 AMTop Music Attorney actually does a pretty good analysis of the US Copyright Office's recent report.

The short of it is, if you want to register your work for copyright, disclose and include discernable elements of your own human effort.  Prompt only works that are 100% AI generated work will not cut it.

It's my opinion that if this ruling sticks, it will (given a decade or so) lead to a generally post-copyright internet.

The thing is that by enforcing that purely AI generated content is not copyrightable, you create an ocean of public domain content, and people can and will let a lot of AI enhanced workflow material go public domain to get the top quality slots of the AI generated content pool to get notoriety.

Copyright will softly make itself obsolete as licensed content will compete more and more with public domain AI and AI enhanced workflow material. Eventually, there will be so much public domain material out there that there won't be a point defending existing copyrights because the market to sell it to no longer exists as it did when there was a functional copyright market.

My brother likes playing a Tech based wizard in a game we play. 

He's also a fan of gothic anti-heroes.

He used Google's Gemini AI art to make himself a character portrait.

I don't see this as anything to get worked up about.  He would never pay anyone to make a portrait for him. 

Overall, I do see regular artists getting paid less because a lot of what they do can be AI now.  I see a lot of AI thumbnail art these days for example. 

I won't disqualify a full RPG for AI art because I too like to play around with AI art software.  I see its usefulness too much. 

Quote from: weirdguy564 on February 07, 2025, 10:39:08 AMMy brother likes playing a Tech based wizard in a game we play. 

He's also a fan of gothic anti-heroes.

He used Google's Gemini AI art to make himself a character portrait.

That looks pretty cool. Def looks AI generated, it has that soft lighting and abstract background characteristic of it. That's a cools use case for the tool.

Quote from: Zenoguy3 on February 07, 2025, 11:14:18 AM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on February 07, 2025, 10:39:08 AMMy brother likes playing a Tech based wizard in a game we play. 

He's also a fan of gothic anti-heroes.

He used Google's Gemini AI art to make himself a character portrait.

That looks pretty cool. Def looks AI generated, it has that soft lighting and abstract background characteristic of it. That's a cools use case for the tool.

AI is just far too good at what it does now.  There can be no putting it back to the way things were.

That being said, it's still a weird legal area.  I could never publish a commercial product, even a free one, using actual celebrities in the images.  Not Emma Watson as a Jedi, or Conan the Barbarian.

Quote from: Corolinth on February 06, 2025, 12:47:51 PMIt's not just people who draw, either, it's writers and translators. Most anime fans would rather have a 1:1 Japanese-to-English translation than whatever the localizers spit out. Left-wing artists losing their jobs means no more Man Jaw Industrial Complex. The writers who gave us pronouns and Body Type A / Body Type B? Also out of a job.

Not just anime. They have been "fixing" manga for a good while now apparently. I only just recent tripped over one instance last year. There may be alot more out there. Words out of place like "I identify as" and the incessant use of "Queendom" instead of Kingdom are two noticed. 

My thoughts personally:

1) I'm politically weird – I'm very much neither left nor right, so I may not be the audience you want an opinion from.

2) There are at least three options besides going art-free and using AI art:

a) Use human-made public domain art. This was somewhat popular in OSR publications a decade ago – not sure how popular it is now. Even ACKS 1e used Telecanter's "Public Domain Silhouettes" for most of their monster illustrations.

b) Make a profit-sharing deal with an artist.

c) Draw your own art. Depending on the feel you're going for, this may or may not fly, but... have you seen the Original D&D art? Different time, different market, blah, blah, blah, but that sold like hot cakes. It's not impossible, and might even give your game some nostalgic atmosphere – again, depending on the feel you're going for in your game.


3) This has been mentioned before, but, yeah, take into consideration that you won't own the artwork if it is AI generated.

4) I would personally prefer a game with no art to a game with AI art. I'm increasingly concerned that AI is going to be making our lives worse and every time someone uses it we are moving further into a future that sucks for everyone. I'm increasingly on Team Butlerian Jihad.

I might be on the odd end of things, but I would almost prefer game books without art.  I think more people would prefer art instead of no art.  I know there's a lot of public domain art that can be used for free.

I wonder if the question should be "I want to use AI art to help get an idea about how things could look, then I might re-draw some art, but I know it will look bad or amaturish, but maybe that art, even bad, would be more preferable to no art at all?"  And that may be the question, bad art vs no art? 

Quote from: Ratman_tf on December 22, 2024, 12:40:55 AMI don't hate AI art. But it does make cheap, uninspired results. I've used it in my personal projects but that's just for my own use, not for sale.
Stock art is pretty cheap on drivethrurpg. I've bought a few packs.
I won't get "violent" over a for-sale RPG using AI art, but I do think it's a turn-off, especially when the AI art is that samey hyper detailed but boring and slightly off pieces that distract from whatever they're supposed to represent.

I mean alot of older licensed books just used stills (the new Cyberpunk Edgerunners box does the same), still think it's better then AI but ultimatly I don't see too much of an issue with AI if need be, though proper art is obviously better.

Quote from: kosmos1214 on December 22, 2024, 03:22:31 PM

Quote from: Sqeek McDohl on December 22, 2024, 02:48:25 PM

Quote from: Fheredin on December 22, 2024, 02:29:17 PMI am generally pro-AI, but also against generating AI content with a cloud platform. For reasons I am about to discuss, if it is at all possible you should generate with local hardware.
 

I've been looking into that but I'm not sure how complicated it is to set up, would you recommend any tutorials?

Been struggling with cloud AI platforms due to the fact my game is set in World War 2 but they all refuse to generate anything resembling a german. I get why they ban it, but it is frustrating if you're trying to make anything set during that time period.

To be honest the censorship of AI art is its biggest drawback as a tool.
That probably wont last forever but for the time being its a legitimate drawback.
As to pro vs anti AI I'm not sure where I fit in that split anymore to much has gone on in my life what I do know is that I lean pro AI in meany regards. Also don't think its just your friend group that is lacking in opinion out side of the art micro universe of our culture there are a lot of people even fairly young people who don't see AI technology as a thing that is going to effect there lively hoods or there lives in a significant way. That view point may not be based in learned fact or practical reality but that's from what I can tell where most people actually seem to sit on the issue.

Not really an issue if you run it locally, I know my friend uses a local one for his campaign.