Quote from: MarcoJAGS Space ain't out yet. JAGS StarCluster tho might be interesting!

What?  And replace one crunchy old-school system with another?  Wouldn't you rather design the new StarCluster in the Vineyard?  Seriously man!

(Warning: the content of this post is not serious.)

P.S.  On a related note, I just got Cold Space.  I rather like the setting.

Quote from: JohnnyWannabeYes, you're correct.

As far as I'm concerned, an RPG game becomes an epic when you manage to squeeze a campaign out of it. That's pretty damn epic, in my book. A one-shot isn't epic, it's a night of giggles.

I don't know, I ran a one shot, (Traveller) two player, one of them ran a group of Marines protecting an ancient site (advanced tech, transporters) and the other player ran a group of Mercenaries hired to take out or steal the tech, they damaged the tech in a fire fight, and the Mercenaries used it in a bid to escape, the Marines followed and both parties ended up in 1980"s new york, they fought each other across the city, the police got involed, then later the army, each time both parties losing members of each team,
it raged, both teams trying to kill each other, both trying to aviod the police and army, the big final battle was a stalemate situation broken by an all out battle on  Liberty Island, doing massive damage to the statue of liberty,
all but two died  (from something like 48)

It was a non stop rollercoaster ride,

All by the seat of my pants, I was just a kid

They thought it was epic,

Quote from: pathfinderapI don't know, I ran a one shot, (Traveller) two player, one of them ran a group of Marines protecting an ancient site (advanced tech, transporters) and the other player ran a group of Mercenaries hired to take out or steal the tech, they damaged the tech in a fire fight, and the Mercenaries used it in a bid to escape, the Marines followed and both parties ended up in 1980"s new york, they fought each other across the city, the police got involed, then later the army, each time both parties losing members of each team,
it raged, both teams trying to kill each other, both trying to aviod the police and army, the big final battle was a stalemate situation broken by an all out battle on  Liberty Island, doing massive damage to the statue of liberty,
all but two died  (from something like 48)

It was a non stop rollercoaster ride,

All by the seat of my pants, I was just a kid

They thought it was epic,

Yeah, that sounds pretty damn epic to me and it must have been loads of fun!:D

Quote from: MarcoJAGS StarCluster tho might be interesting!

-Marco

This is a must! Get to work.

Quote from: JohnnyWannabeYeah, that sounds pretty damn epic to me and it must have been loads of fun!:D

It was, full on, no holds bared, all out non stop adventure,

Never worked so hard GM'ing a game ever, lol

Quote from: Jeffrey StraszheimWhat?  And replace one crunchy old-school system with another?  Wouldn't you rather design the new StarCluster in the Vineyard?  Seriously man!

(Warning: the content of this post is not serious.)

P.S.  On a related note, I just got Cold Space.  I rather like the setting.

I just got the GM advice in JAGS Revised (in posted essay form) described as "veering into Nar" on StoryGames :eek:

Maybe Hyenas in the StarCluster ain't so far off ...

-Marco
[ Also note: if System did Matter then, yes, replacing a crunchy old-school system with another would make a difference--but since System Only Matters in GNS terms, if both are Sim then, you're right: there'd be no reason! What was I thinking -- NOTE: I know Jeff and we argue GNS all the time. This is an extension of that. ]

If no one else will say it, I will.

I defend the Honor of Fading Suns against any man, woman or RPG who dare claim it does not do Epic Space Gaming better than any other!

The Gauntlet has been thrown!
















That said, I rather like some of the other stuff said here too.  Burning Empires, I'll second with the Caveat that I'd have to toss out scripted combat and put in good space battles somehow.  It needs work for me to truely trust it (sorry, Luke, I know you love your scripted whatsists, but that shit makes me feel like a retarded stepchild. Wow, eight whole options in a fight. Loverly.)  Gurps is cool, but I don't think it's realy 'epic'. Hard, soitanly. Epic... not so much. Ditto traveller.  And if Alternities tech levels didn't make my eyes bleed from the pain, i could almost get behind it or D20 Future, which shamelessly stole every last bit of that terrible shit like it was GOLD.

EDIT:::: damn, didn't notice the second page before I posted. Erstwhile, I got your back.. that's it, yeah...

Fading Suns didn't work for me; how can you have a culture (well ok the nobility as opposed to the proles) so dependent on technology while at the same time making it a sin to use? I couldn't reconcile the two and found it kinda fell flat for me, plus the background was a chore to read. I would have been looking forward to a 40K rpg but for that facts: a) the setting is probably too harsh! b) its not coming out till next year (and i emailed them hoping to get in on the playtest action - bastards!) and c) the multibook format is spectacularly stupid.

But i don't see anything else that does this sort of thing. The Dune RPG was stillborn (though probably for the best - I check for traps then turn into a worm).

Quote from: MarcoI just got the GM advice in JAGS Revised (in posted essay form) described as "veering into Nar" on StoryGames :eek:

Maybe Hyenas in the StarCluster ain't so far off ...

-Marco

Heck, I've been living with Hyenas in my StarCluster for four years now!

-clash

Quote from: signoftheserpentFading Suns didn't work for me; how can you have a culture (well ok the nobility as opposed to the proles) so dependent on technology while at the same time making it a sin to use? I couldn't reconcile the two and found it kinda fell flat for me, plus the background was a chore to read. I would have been looking forward to a 40K rpg but for that facts: a) the setting is probably too harsh! b) its not coming out till next year (and i emailed them hoping to get in on the playtest action - bastards!) and c) the multibook format is spectacularly stupid.

But i don't see anything else that does this sort of thing. The Dune RPG was stillborn (though probably for the best - I check for traps then turn into a worm).

I had Fading Suns, but gave it away (and that person later gave it away)
I found it dull and depressing, I can see the Dune thing, but if thats what I wanted I'd go play Dune, baring that I don't see the draw

If I was a smarter intarweb geek and at all organized I'd have a file of quotes that other people have used to pull out for this argument. Instead I use my memory.

Fading Suns is admittedly a kitchen sink derivative setting. There is dune, there is 40k. There is the weird fuedal setting technology issue thing.

The thing of it is: It works, like a champ, like a monster. It's a kitchen sink that takes all that other stuff (lightsabers!!!!) and makes it all work together without feeling kludged together. It OWNS all of it's source material, is internally and externally coherent.   Nobles use technology, but mostly don't know how it works. They get indulgences from the church, which is a political move because the church needs the nobles and the nobles need the church. The third leg is the guilds, the technologist, who have power because they DO know how all that crap works, and nobody wants to give it all up.

Is the back story dull to read? I don't know, i didn't find it so.  But you don't need to remember every detail. I could sum up the majority of the 'history' in a few lines, all anyone needs to really run the game, much less play in it.

You say Dune is your dream Epic Space setting, Fading Suns does Dune, right down to Prana Bindu and jump ships (sort of... Jump gates) and precognition and sheild fighting. You say Star Wars is your Epic Space, I've got your lightsabers and your telekinetic mystics.  You say 40k is your Epic Space? I've got your Brother Battle in power armor vs. buglike aliens, right along side Imperial Legions fighting a doomed battle and a larger than life Emperor guiding mankind to a brighter future, and an oppressive theocractic church burning heretics in the streets.  You say you Epic Space involves Massive Fleet battles? Got 'em.  Pirates and space vikings? Got 'em.  Massive four armed wookie aliens? Got 'em. Blood sucking bug me? Got 'em. Precursor aliens and wierd ancient artifacts that are beyond modern science? Got 'em.

Not saying its necessarily for everyone, but Epic? Got it in spades and then some. It does Epic so hard your grandchildren feel it RIght Now!

Quote from: SpikeIf I was a smarter intarweb geek and at all organized I'd have a file of quotes that other people have used to pull out for this argument. Instead I use my memory.

Fading Suns is admittedly a kitchen sink derivative setting. There is dune, there is 40k. There is the weird fuedal setting technology issue thing.

The thing of it is: It works, like a champ, like a monster. It's a kitchen sink that takes all that other stuff (lightsabers!!!!) and makes it all work together without feeling kludged together. It OWNS all of it's source material, is internally and externally coherent.   Nobles use technology, but mostly don't know how it works. They get indulgences from the church, which is a political move because the church needs the nobles and the nobles need the church. The third leg is the guilds, the technologist, who have power because they DO know how all that crap works, and nobody wants to give it all up.

Is the back story dull to read? I don't know, i didn't find it so.  But you don't need to remember every detail. I could sum up the majority of the 'history' in a few lines, all anyone needs to really run the game, much less play in it.

You say Dune is your dream Epic Space setting, Fading Suns does Dune, right down to Prana Bindu and jump ships (sort of... Jump gates) and precognition and sheild fighting. You say Star Wars is your Epic Space, I've got your lightsabers and your telekinetic mystics.  You say 40k is your Epic Space? I've got your Brother Battle in power armor vs. buglike aliens, right along side Imperial Legions fighting a doomed battle and a larger than life Emperor guiding mankind to a brighter future, and an oppressive theocractic church burning heretics in the streets.  You say you Epic Space involves Massive Fleet battles? Got 'em.  Pirates and space vikings? Got 'em.  Massive four armed wookie aliens? Got 'em. Blood sucking bug me? Got 'em. Precursor aliens and wierd ancient artifacts that are beyond modern science? Got 'em.

Not saying its necessarily for everyone, but Epic? Got it in spades and then some. It does Epic so hard your grandchildren feel it RIght Now!

If I close my eyes, I can see Rifts (joke)

Dune isn't my idea of an epic, that would be star wars, or even star trek,

Quote from: pathfinderapIf I close my eyes, I can see Rifts (joke)

Dune isn't my idea of an epic, that would be star wars, or even star trek,

Well, Unlike Rifts, Fading Suns is both coherent AND mechanically viable for long term play. Rifts is the ultimate kitchen sink...'setting'. Fading Suns is the 'Kitchen Sink done right'. They don't add shit that don't fit just to have it in there.

Star Wars is not only perfectly viable, it's frikken Easy to do Fading Suns style.  You've got hidden, hunted psychic orders, a variety of mystic/psionic abilities and ancient laser swords that only a few people would have access too. You've got a star spanning empire you can fight as rebels, and princesses and hidden bastards are canon.

Star Trek? Not really Epic in my book. High powered? Certainly, but grounded in the human level.  Star Trek didn't flow mythically enough to be Epic.  But really, we need an English Lit major to continue this particular thread. I lack the jargon vocab to do it justice.

Greek lit, please

Fading Suns always was a bit too White-Wolf-ish to me, but the basic idea is quite alright. But then, for sci-fi I never needed much source material. Most planets you travel to are pretty unique anyways and have to be done by the game master, and the rest is easy to simulate with whatever you've got. It's pretty easy to sell me on a new fantasy setting, but the usual point of view that a sci-fi game offers (beyond the rules and the general mood) is a few feet to high for my gustatory buds...

Which isn't all that bad, as you could easily mix and match products from several different publishers. SpaceMaster adventure set in the Star Wars universe with Space Gothic enemies? No problemo...
(Fitting ReichStar in the game might be a bit problematic, though )

Quote from: SpikeStar Trek? Not really Epic in my book. High powered? Certainly, but grounded in the human level.  Star Trek didn't flow mythically enough to be Epic.  But really, we need an English Lit major to continue this particular thread. I lack the jargon vocab to do it justice.

Epic doesn't have to be mythically though, WWII was epic right?

To me the sheer scope and depth of the Star Trek universe is epic,
just a softer epic, were as star wars is a blatant in your face epic,

maybe someone should have started the thread with a definition of epic we could all agree on first hu? lol