Quote from: Chris24601;1118470This is true. Smaller numbers are always easier to work with. The trick to a good system using DR is that damage should also be pretty static lest DR either become irrelevant (if DR doesn't scale) or impervious to weaker foes (if it scales up too much - unless that's what you're going for).

Another interesting design element is that if your damage is based purely on margin of success then a defense score acts functionally as DR in that the smaller the margin by which it's overcome, the less damage is dealt. As such, you really only need DR or MoS damage; both is over-complicating things for a table-top game.

I ended up tweaking my "hit point" values several times in relation to my damage numbers to find what seemed the best range. Ultimately, people responded best when the values were in the double-digit range.

Less than 10 and they felt too fragile to encourage heroic fantasy style action (i.e. any hit could drop them so players were risk averse... if they see a family being attacked by a half-dozen goblins they don't try to rush to the rescue).

Conversely, at higher levels people started to check out when their hit points were above a hundred and damage had scaled up to match. Subtracting 18 points from 50 is one thing; subtracting 37 points from 112 is another.

So the range I ended up with for PCs (monsters can go lower or higher) started at about 25 at level one (for comparison a level one monster would do about 10 damage per hit) and climbed to about 75 by "name level" and capped around 95.

I'm trying out something different for my system that incorporates elements of Hit Point systems and Damage Condition systems. Characters have DR instead of HP, which is based on both, personal toughness as well as armor.
DR is subtracted from all damage taken (to a minimum of 1) and once characters reach a certain Damage Threshold (such as 50) they are considered to be in "Critical Condition" and must make a Survival check each time they take damage or die. The roll's degree of success determines whether the character flat out dies, passes out, or becomes dazed for one round.

This same damage mechanic can used across the board to handle damage for characters as well as objects, and can also be used to handle non-physical damage types, such as Strain, Mental/Sanity or Social/Reputation (which are optional, except for Strain, which is used for powers). In the case of non-physical damage the end result becomes something other than death, such as unconsciousness, insanity or an NPC or group/faction becoming permanently hostile.

I'm also adding cumulative penalties every X amount of damage sustained (such as -1 to rolls and-10% to move speed every 10 DMG), but keeping it optional for gritty combat rules, since it becomes an extra thing to track I don't want to impose on everyone unless the group wants hard core play or if combat in the setting is supposed to be deadly.

Quote from: Chris24601;1118470Part of it. I use four defenses; Armor, Dodge (you can also use it in place of Armor if it's higher), Fortitude and Willpower.

Armor uses its value plus Strength or Reflexes (though heavier armor needs sufficient Strength to avoid penalties) and mostly reflects using your armor to turn aside blows (you don't have to dodge completely, just enough for it to glance off your armor). Because "hit points" are non-physical skill, fatigue and luck, a successful attack means you're having to spend some of your stamina and position to turn an otherwise lethal blow into one that still glances off and are now closer to the point where your skill and stamina won't be enough to save you from a telling blow; a missed attack is one you turn aside with virtually no effort.

The other defenses each use the better of those two attribute pairs;

- Reflexes or Wits for Dodge, Reflexes is you're physically quick enough to dodge, Wits is that you're aware enough of your surroundings to not need to (you noticed the dragon was getting ready to breathe fire a few seconds before everyone else did and were already running for cover).

- Strength or Endurance for Fortitude.

- Intellect or Presence for Willpower (Intellect resists things like illusions or enchantments with logic, Presence resists with sheer force of personality).

I went with a more consolidated list of four attributes in my system because I found D&D-style six (or more) attributes to be harder to balance or make useful, and I don't like superfluous or weak attributes, or attributes that exist only to cover a specific game stat (such as movement speed in systems like Cyberpunk 2020/Interlock). I ultimately reduced attributes to two physical and two mental abilities dealing with Power/Resilience or Speed/Precision, each. Defenses are handled by skills, which cover tasks, but may also cover resistances and certain game stats.

Attributes include:

Might--physical power and resilience (equivalent to STR & CON in D&D, minus melee accuracy). Skills: Health, Toughness (Physical DR) and Strength.
Reflexes--physical speed and precision (equivalent to DEX in D&D, plus melee accuracy). Skills: Athletics, Fighting, Marksman, Piloting and Stealth.
Bearing--mental power and resilience (equivalent to CHA in D&D, plus WIS willpower component). Skills: Interaction, Perform and Willpower.
Awareness--mental speed and precision (equivalent to INT in D&D, plus WIS perceptiveness component). Skills: Craft, Lore, Perception, Medicine and Technical.

Quote from: Chris24601;11184703d6 is nice, but I ran play-tests for a wide range of ages (I believe the youngest was 10) and the d20 helped speed things up because you didn't have to add up the dice in addition to adding the modifier (which I kept pretty low).

One could argue that kids should learn to do math better and having to add 3d6 rolls will help that, but my findings were that instead it led to disengagement from what was supposed to be a fun activity (side-bar: I think my favorite playtest was for two of my friends and their kids... playing RPGs as family fun time is about my favorite thing ever).

Kids (and adults) also have an easier time grokking a linear distribution. It's not exactly intuitive that needing a 14+ on 3d6 is only about a 15% chance when a roll of 14-18 is 30% of the possible range. By contrast, knowing they need an 18+ on a d20 is very intuitive for school age kids (18 out of 20 questions on a quiz means you need to do really well... 14 out of 18 is only a C grade so not as hard).

So that's why, at least for my game, I decided a d20 would be the most fun for the largest range of players. I also opted to make all player damage use only a single die (that scales up with level) plus a modifier instead of multiple dice to be added together.

I went with d20 for much the same reason. I've tried multiple die mechanics before, but found that people would stare at the dice for too long trying to add them up, vs simply rolling a single die and adding modifiers. So I decided to use a single die, and went with d20 cuz it has a nice variable range and is neatly divided in 5% increments.

For damage I ultimately went with d6s per damage level. I found rolling buckets of d6s for damage fun and felt "powerful", which is a tradeoff for having to count dice.

Quote from: Chris24601;1118470In the end I went with the idea that fantasy heroes are generally portrayed as broadly competent, but the attributes alone didn't quite give me the range I wanted.

The list I ended up with was; Acrobatics (Ref), Arcana (Int), Culture (Int), Deceit (Pre), Engineering (Int), Fitness (End), Insight (Wit), Intimidate (Pre), Medicine (Wit), Nature (Wit), Persuade (Pre) and Stealth (Ref).

Strength was potent enough on its own it didn't need any skills tied to it; it already determined how much you could carry, how quickly you could climb and swim, how far you could jump, was the default score used for melee attacks and damage and could by applied to your Armor and Fortitude defenses.

Endurance got Fitness because it represented both things like resisting fatigue, but also that if you did need to lift more, swim or jump harder, climb just a bit further it was because you were digging deep into your physical reserves; Endurance is also the ability score most responsible for how far you can push in a day (it doesn't determine your "hit points", but it does determine how quickly they recover and how deep you can dig to pull off exceptional feats) which is why it only gets one skill.

Reflexes gets two because it's also used for initiative, is the default for ranged attacks and might determine your Armor and Dodge defenses. Of note, sleight of hand and picking pockets also falls under the Stealth skill.

Each of the others gets three skills each to respresent common areas of expertise.

Background talents can also improve specific actions with those skills to further differentiate them (Guttersnipe gives a bonus to using Stealth to pick pockets for example).

One issue I've found with skill based systems is that they tend to be too specialized for their own good. One problem I've found with this is that you end up having to learn and train independently a bunch of variations of the same type of skill (such different melee weapons or vehicles) without contributing to each other, which is unrealistic and adds to the complexity of character progression. Another problem is that a lot of these specialized skills are highly situational and hardly come up during play, so you end up splitting your effort between a bunch of variant skills that you're never going to use.

To deal with this issue what I ended up doing was using a combination of highly consolidated skills dealing with broad areas of activity and common game functions, which are supplemented by a secondary class of abilities called Techniques that expand on what skills can do. So that Skills handle the "level" component for all similar tasks while Techniques handle specific training or specializations. Some skill functions may also be handled by Powers, which are based on an effect system (crafting objects, for example, is covered by the Create Object effect). That way skills are simplified and more useful, but you can still cover more specific functions that require specific training when necessary.

Quote from: Razor 007;111848425 Hit Points at Level 1?  Shucks, they can each go off on solo adventures and survive.

Note that the average level 1 monster deals about 10 damage (a crit deals about 15); so three hits (or a hit and a crit) and you're down. Numbers are relative.

That's not too different than 3e or 5e's max HD+Con at level 1 (so typically 11-13 hp for a fighter) vs. attacks that deal 1d10 or so damage (about three average hits to drop). The difference is that one bad roll (ex. an orc with a greataxe for 1d12+2 damage rolling a 12) doesn't drop you to zero with a single hit. It's basically filing off the extremes in the starter levels.

The system also has a much slower incline; "Hit Points" increase at 5 per level so a level 6 PC has only twice the amount as a level 1 and a level 11 only three times as much.

Compared to "6 HD + 6 x Con" at level 6, and "11 HD + 11 x Con (or 9 HD + 9 x Con + 4 in AD&D)" that's a much less extreme climb (a level 2 is about 20% tougher than a level 1 instead of up to 100% tougher in D&D).

And again, the setting is one designed for heroic fantasy where the PCs are larger than life heroes akin to fictional protagonists after their origin stories/pilot episodes (you're Oliver Queen after he returned from the island, not immediately after the shipwreck). The entire point of the world is that there are threats out there in the wilds too dangerous for ordinary men to handle and it needs heroes willing to go out into the wilds and face them so that civilization can be safe.

So yes, 25 points is right about what I'm looking for. Your starting fighter character (labeled a Veteran in AD&D) is about as tough and competent as 2-3 ordinary soldiers. His abilities are enough that he could face a couple of orc warriors or a single Lesser Wight (i.e. not an energy drainer, just a generic intelligent undead warrior) with a good chance of success, but a single orc veteran would be real challenge and he would absolutely be eviscerated by a single wyvern or dire wolf.

But if that's too powerful for you and you want the true zero-to-hero experience, my GM's Guide has optional rules for level 0, -1 and -2 PCs with correspondingly fewer hit points (20, 15 and 10 respectively) and abilities (negative level characters don't even have their specific class abilities yet, just the generic warrior or spellcaster traits).

Palladium 1e, where Satan has 666 hit points.
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I have two fantasy games I like Wizards' World and Labyrinth Lord. If D&D 6 is a pile of steaming rot these will keep me going for years.

What is Wizard's World? What's special about it?

It is an old school fantasy game from 1983 that has some unique features. My favorite parts are monsters/npc"s have to have stats generated just like player characters. All races have unique to them dice rolls for stats.  attacks are made with percentile dice instead of a D20, There are some fun monsters like the valley giants if you old enough to remember the 80's you will get the joke. I have players who play monsters as good guys and it is a lot of fun to GM for this. It never gained much popularity outside of California but thanks to Goblinoid Games it is now back in print.

5E more than fulfills my craving for a complex tactical dungeon crawler. When I don't crave that, there's plenty of juice in DCC and the various OSR offerings.

Just recently I've come across Best Left Buried and Esoteric Enterprises, so should I develop an interest in occult WoD-type games one of those would more than suffice.

There's plenty of good games out there, more than I will ever have time to play.

Quote from: Shasarak;1118342Really "Today's computers with infinite power compared to a Mac+ have many freeze ups and crashed, run noticeably slower, lots of problems and the concept of user friendly was long ago left by the wayside"?

That does not seem credible.

On this odd side-note, I recently recycled an old Windows 2000 machine with very meagre hardware. I tried it out first and it was lightning fast compared to what we're used to now whether MacOS or W10. Even 8 cores all decked out is slow with Windows 7 compared to the old stuff. Sigh. We just get used to long load times.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1118121X in D6 solves most of my problems in OD&D. I can easily extrapolate STR vs. Door or WIS vs. sneaky goblins or whatever, then break down the odds on D6. For instance, let's say 1-2 on D6 breaks down a stuck door. But this door isn't just stuck, it's barred shut. Hmm, that's bad. But both Fighters who are hitting the door have 16 STR. Hmm, that's good. But they want to do it quietly! Hmm, that's bad. But the cleric just noticed door has been smashed open before, and there might still be a weak spot. Hmm, that's good. AKA, I can easily go back and forth weighing modifiers, having advantages and disadvantages cancel each other and coming up with easy X in D6 solution.

Could I break the odds down "better" on D20 or D100? Sure, but I don't care about deep grain. A range of -3 to +3 on D6 is enough to simulate the odds so there is "realistic" variance, but quick and dirty enough so I can keep the game moving along.

And that's what really matters to me. Keeping the flow of the game moving to maximize immersion.

QuoteThe Far Away Land RPG

Never heard of it! What's it about?

X in d6 is a solid mechanic.

Far Away Land is really two things.

1) excellent mechanics
2) gonzo fantasy/post apocalyptic setting

faruniverse.com

It's the mechanics I love. Very similar to Silhouette used for Jovian Chronicles and other DP9 games. It uses a dice pool mechanic where you roll a number of d6s and take the highest one. If you roll multiple 6s, each 6 after the first is +1.

Other than perhaps ORE (which powers Godlike), it's one of the simplest and fastest combat I've dealt with. It hits a lot of sweet spots for me and is very easy to use in multiple genres. From D&D style fantasy to modern horror to far future.

The included setting also has Poomkins. Pumpkin-headed humanoids. Great for Halloween.

Free quickstart rules at https://faruniverse.com/wp-content/uploads/adventures/FAL-QSR-2nd-Edition.pdf

We are still happy with 3.5E, with some rules taken from Pathfinder and some house rules to help our "theatre of the mind" way to solve combats. Outside this, either Call of Cthulhu 7E or Star Wars D6.

Quote from: Reckall;1119274... Star Wars D6.

While not perfect, the d6 system seems underrated. I think Silhouette improved the d6 dice pool method but classic ol' d6 system was great for Star Wars and bigger than life character action. I absolutely love d6 Ghostbusters to this day.

Quote from: Kersus;1119271On this odd side-note, I recently recycled an old Windows 2000 machine with very meagre hardware. I tried it out first and it was lightning fast compared to what we're used to now whether MacOS or W10. Even 8 cores all decked out is slow with Windows 7 compared to the old stuff. Sigh. We just get used to long load times.

I like using my Medion Erazer Gamer PC for stuff like Chrome & Word - actually boots up & runs at a reasonable pace!

Quote from: Kersus;1119310While not perfect, the d6 system seems underrated. I think Silhouette improved the d6 dice pool method but classic ol' d6 system was great for Star Wars and bigger than life character action. I absolutely love d6 Ghostbusters to this day.

My copies of d6 Fantasy & d6 Space arrived yesterday. Presentation is pretty crude compared to the amazing Mini Six, but still choc full of good ideas.

I've been going through my d6 Star Wars Imperial Sourcebook from 1988 adding the static defences from Mini Six and upping Stormtrooper blaster skill to 5d6 (and strength to 3d6) so they can finally have revenge on those pesky PCs...

Ran my Mini Six playtest last week to iron out a few things, and starting my Mini Six Legend of the Silver Princess campaign Feb 5th - https://simonsprimevalthule.blogspot.com/2020/01/the-valley-of-scorn-palace-of-silver.html

I can definitely see myself going to Mini Six as my default RPG, especially once 5e D&D is no longer current.

Just as a reminder seeing all this d6 love: Gallant Knight Games is planning their own relaunch of the system with the immanent release of the Zorro RPG, followed by a "West End Games D6 Second Edition."

I've backed the Zorro kickstarter and seen a couple of system previews, and it looks to hearken back to the 1st Edition of the game--5 attributes, with 4 skills under each.

Quote from: S'mon;1119350I can definitely see myself going to Mini Six as my default RPG, especially once 5e D&D is no longer current.

S'mon, please consider doing a thread about Mini-Six, perhaps a mix of review, actual play and evangelism for the system.