I guess it will effect me if the company politics bleed over and begins to reflect the majority of gamers in the real world (not just a few loud twits online). I don't play either system, but they are definitely major portals into the hobby.

If a product is useful to me I buy it. If it isn't I don't. A product is rarely useful to me lately, buying mostly map bundles.

Doesn't affect me. The design of D&D left me and my group(s) around. Their political activism in their content and in social media simply solidifies our non-support of them. Which of course is their choice to do so, as it is ours to spend our money on products we actually like without the supporting the agendas of things we do not believe in.

It's pretty easy.

Quote from: tenbones;1057560Doesn't affect me. The design of D&D left me and my group(s) around. Their political activism in their content and in social media simply solidifies our non-support of them. Which of course is their choice to do so, as it is ours to spend our money on products we actually like without the supporting the agendas of things we do not believe in.

It's pretty easy.

This. Anyway, Mike Mearls fired me from D&D so when the shit comes for him and he gets fired I'm going to enjoy it.

I think the people really unhappy about this are forgetting that Wizards of the Coasts doesn't want old guys anymore. They want twenty somethings that want to watch D&D on Twitch, buy t shirts, toys, and other things so they can show off their "geek life" on social media. WoTC thinks there is a lot more money to be made if D&D becomes a life style brand than there is in actually selling gaming books. WoTC wants D&D to be like Marvel. Yes the gaming books are there but it's such a small part of the pie compared to licensed products, tv shows, and movies. That's why WoTC is trying so hard to make the new D&D movie be something. And I wouldn't be surprised if they try to get a streaming show happening.

People that like to buy books, dice, and sit around a table playing a game is a lot smaller than folks that want to wear a shirt, buy a movie, or play a computer game.

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1057473Actually, now you mention it, there's a whole host of reasons why OSR is better and nostaligia doesn't play such an important role

A corporate committee has never written anything as well as a decent author with a coherent vision.  Production values and editing?  Maybe, maybe not  But writing, no.  

When a corporate committee develops an agenda--any agenda--besides doing the best they can within their already considerable limitations, then things can turn bad in a hurry.  It's why I don't want gratuitous politics in a game even when I agree with the politics.  One of the surest ways to kill any quality.

Quote from: Razor 007;1057376How will that impact your purchasing decisions, and your gaming choices?

(I ran out of character space in the thread title.)

Depends on what you mean by "Full Bore SJW Platforms". I'm fine with ignoring the sidebars that talk about "inclusiveness". I find them as relevant to my gaming as the sidebars and notices in Rifts and D&D about the supernatural during the satanic panic of the 80's.

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1057537Now this is not directed at you trechriron and lynn but the gaming populace in general: never ever be so arrogant as to think this hobby isn't built on and fundamentally supported by D&D. Digital publishing is just one more avenue of distribution and its highly convenient which is why its done so well - but without product (and well-known product) these sites and the rest of the hobby dies. You can play in your gamer dungeons all you want and ignore the rest of the hobby -- and while you do, it will collapse and we'll be the last set of generations to enjoy it. That is the stark truth.

My point was specific to me as the original question was worded.

I agree that the fate of D&D does propel the business of the hobby, and if it were to disappear tomorrow, it would scale back the industry. That doesn't mean the hobby is dead or will die though. Diminished isn't dead.

RPGs have become both a medium for reuse of brand and content (licensed titles to 'pretend' to be your favorite type of character is a 'story'), and a generator of content (all those formula TSR novelizations, youtubed games, etc), and no longer exists solely in its own niche. I don't feel any obligation to the industry if the industry doesn't justify the benefit to me as a consumer.

Quote from: trechriron;1057532That is largely the issue. Why do we need a company to run games at your FLGS? OSR games are gems. More people should just bring them to their FLGS and run them. Get the owners to stock them. The hobby at this juncture of easy desktop publishing and digital distribution systems and quality POD doesn't need big corporate D&D any longer.

Incentive and organization. Which few outside larger companies tend to be able to maintain without collapsing at some point. OSR games and pretty much any discontinued game tend to lack any sort of RPGA-like organization and little incentive other than personal one. To really get out there you need more. Especially organization which oft provides the incentive.

This where Dragon Storm for example trounced its competition. They had an organization nearly from the start and that allowed players to participate far and wide at conventions and at home.I cant think of hardly any other indie RPG at the time and few larger ones that did. TORG comes to mind as one of the others that employed one.

And this is in part how Paizo was able to sweep up the player and customer base WOTC lost with 4e. They had some organization prior via their running Dragon and Polyhedron and other 3e product. And once Pathfinder took off they set Pathfinder Society.

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1057537You can play in your gamer dungeons all you want and ignore the rest of the hobby -- and while you do, it will collapse and we'll be the last set of generations to enjoy it. That is the stark truth.

Sounds good to me. I know how to recruit players who never played D&D.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1057564Depends on what you mean by "Full Bore SJW Platforms". I'm fine with ignoring the sidebars that talk about "inclusiveness". I find them as relevant to my gaming as the sidebars and notices in Rifts and D&D about the supernatural during the satanic panic of the 80's.

Bingo.  

Vampire 5ed devoted -five- freaking pages to the subject, but they're also trying to soothe the angry SJW mobs they courted as consumers.  But in the end, it's just like the derivative essays on gaming the old White Wolf would have some schulb with a BA in Lit write (you know, the ones pontificating about Joseph Campbell and Star Wars.  They were in every fifth book): nobody gives a shit the moment they finish reading them.  It's just posturing and virtue signaling, and you can go back to pretending to be murder hobos gaining power by looting the corpses of low income orcs with your friends.

Quote from: san dee jota;1057602Bingo.  

I think you nailed it. I mean "Book of Mirrors" is a snorefest and that is 20 years old. Boring is boring and the whole argument is boring.

Let's get on with the entertaining business of rpgs.

Nada for me...

I don't play any WotC stuff or Pathfinder. I'm only into the OSR side of things.

Word. Only talent, not tokenism, gets my money.

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1057537Yes, it does. You can kiss goodnight to the hugely increased player base we got from D&D 5th (big parallel with 3e there) and the associated products that have spawned from it. That includes the oft-maligned series of actual play vids (the biggest being Critical Role, of course), which regardless of how you feel, has got even more people playing it than the books and marketing itself ever could by itself. The only other series that could ever claim to bring in people like that was World of Darkness in the 90s.

The rest of the hobby doesn't make shit and doesn't bring in shit. This has been true since the 90s -- even into the 80s -- and it's even truer today after the catastrophic fallout from the 00s. Hasbro doesn't make any real money of the brand -- and just think, if they don't, the rest of the hobby sure as shit don't.

Now this is not directed at you trechriron and lynn but the gaming populace in general: never ever be so arrogant as to think this hobby isn't built on and fundamentally supported by D&D. Digital publishing is just one more avenue of distribution and its highly convenient which is why its done so well - but without product (and well-known product) these sites and the rest of the hobby dies.

You can play in your gamer dungeons all you want and ignore the rest of the hobby -- and while you do, it will collapse and we'll be the last set of generations to enjoy it. That is the stark truth.

Who cares?

RPGs are a cool and fun hobby, but it doesn't make money and "the market leader" makes a very mediocre rendition of RPGs. Small stuff by people whose main job isn't RPGs tend to be better anyways.

This hobby is fan driven not corporate driven. WotC could disappear and RPGs won't die out.

It's not unique in that regard.