I saw that on my friend's mom's swanky top loadin' VCR! I really enjoyed it until they pulled the dude apart on the escalator and started eating his entrails.

When I think of space opera- I think of AE Van Vogt, Jack Vance,  Andre fucking Norton and Poul Anderson.

Well look, before Star Wars there were very few "A" science fiction movies. Very, very few of the "A" movies involved space travel in any significant way. 2001 is the only one I can come up with. The rest of the "A" SF movies are more dystopian/post-apocalyptic than star-spanning.

Star Wars almost certainly made the Star Trek: The Motion Picture possible.

Even now I'm not sure there has been a proper space opera in mainstream English-speaking film outside of Dune.

Forbidden planet (1956) is a fine  A SF/space movie, with a good cast, a good budget and some really good FX. I was going to say it isn't space opera, but it is, I guess. the presence of the vast undergound alien complex nudges it that way for me, anyway.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityNo, I think I understand. My idea of Space Opera used to be The Mote in God's Eye, but virtually everyone on the internet seems to think Star Wars or Babylon 5 when they hear the term. And all those "story games"--they're really movie games or TV series games.

Lord! I hear you! SF is from books, not movies! Not TV!

-clash

I just finished reading "The War with The Rull" by Van Vogt last night.

Quote from: flyingmiceLord! I hear you! SF is from books, not movies! Not TV!

-clash

Now here's a challenge: Define the difference.

It's palpable, and it's vital. But explaining it would require exceeding the brain cell quota I have allotted to RPG-related thinking.

IOW, I got nothing.

All I know is that I'm reading the Demon Princes right now, and there is no RPG that remotely matches that. OK, Vance is Vance, you say. But even Asimov's Foundation--to get that right in an RPG takes much more than a couple setting tropes and a skill system. Or Nightfall. Holy cow, what a story.

There's one Traveller adventure by the Keiths, which somebody linked to a while ago--it's a free download on e23--that gets a first contact SO scenario right.

Re. van Vogt: I read that Null-A novel by him two weeks ago. Utter awesomesauce, I believe is the term.

Pierce,

 It definitely helps to have read Asimov, Van Vogt, early Robert Heinlein, Poul Anderson, Harry Harrison, Frederick Pohl...etc to "get" TRAVELLER.

I gew up reading that stuff , NOT Conan, Grey mouser, Narnia and the like. as a result TRAVELLER made sense to me pretty quickly.

- Ed C.

Vance can't be done, because people just aren't that witty, sadly.
Asimov's Foundation covers too much ground. You'd probably have better luck with a board game. As soon as you tighten it down to a particluar place and time and group of people it loses it's foundationess (for the best, imo).
Traveller could probably do Andre Norton, but you'd have to add in some energy weapons. The Last Planet, frex would make a great game.

It's funny that you mention this, because it's something my best friend (not much of reader until recently) talk about a lot. We've both run space games in the past, but his are always really, really star trek influenced whereas mine are more impacted by Vance, Van Vogt and Norton.
When people talk about Firefly (which I dig)= Traveller, Isee there point, but for me Postmarked the Stars= Traveller.

Quote from: KoltarPiuerce,

 Heinlein


- Ed C.

Traveller, the game of funky fetishistic and incestuous party sex in the far, far future. In the space everybody has red hair and is a lightning calculatin' free loving libratarian. in fact, if your hair isn't red- you probably are.

Quote from: AosTraveller, the game of funky fetishistic and incestuous party sex in the far, far future. In the space everybody has red hair and is a lightning calculatin' free loving libratarian. in fact, if your hair isn't red- you probably are.

I corrected my Heinlein reference. His earlier stuff is closer to TRAVELLER. Especially the Sci-Fi that he wrote for kids and about 50% of Starship Troopers is what inspired the merc stuff in TRAVELLER.


- Ed C.

Quote from: KoltarI corrected my Heinlein reference. His earlier stuff is closer to TRAVELLER. Especially the Sci-Fi that he wrote for kids and about 50% of Starship Troopers is what inspired the merc stuff in TRAVELLER.


- Ed C.

No sweat, Ed, but I never ever pass up an opportunity to mock Heinlein. Ever. I like Red Planet, though. Willis is groovy.

Space Opera is E. E. Doc Smith doing Lensman and Issac Asimov writing as Paul French on Lucky Starr stories, its closer to its Pulp roots. Compared to that, Pournelle's CoDominion stories and Niven's Known Space are Hard SF.

And let's face it, Traveller borrows heavily from Niven & Pournelle - especially The Mote in God's Eye.

Quote from: AosForbidden planet (1956) is a fine  A SF/space movie, with a good cast, a good budget and some really good FX. I was going to say it isn't space opera, but it is, I guess. the presence of the vast undergound alien complex nudges it that way for me, anyway.

You know, I think I still haven't seen that one, or if I did it was on Creature Feature when I had trouble keeping my eyes open after midnight.

See it! It makes you realise how old Leslie Neilsen is. And what he looked like as a... um... "serious" actor.

I will. This thread made me go to Wikipedia and review the list of science fiction films by decade. A good number there that I'd like to see.