I have Ultimate Magic Pathfinder RPG. It's a good book.

Quote from: Nightfall;459935I have Ultimate Magic Pathfinder RPG. It's a good book.

I give a crap.

Tell us about it.

Quote from: Nightfall;459935I have Ultimate Magic Pathfinder RPG. It's a good book.

After APG, I was a little underwhelmed myself.

Quote from: jeff37923;459946I give a crap.

Tell us about it.

Well firstly is the section on classes. The Magus base class is covered and I think it does a fine job of blending fighter with wizard. (though i'm sure some will bemoan the fact Magus doesn't get anything higher than 6th level spells.) The REALLY good parts (IMHO) are the archtypes. Some are better than others obviously. (Not sure how I feel about the magic monk...) The part I think will get the most use for some is the section on Summoners. While the archtypes are very good, it's the stuff before that on how to create Eidiolons that will get people's attention. Here (along side a few new evolutions and a new base form) you'll get a small but very useful sampling of how to make your Eidiolon into just about anything. From Dragons, to Linnorms, to Angels and Demons, and even Undead ones. The other good one is the archtypes for Magus. My personal favorite is (unsurprisingly) the Black Blade type. (Elric! Here I come!) That and the Quarterstaff magus (not quite Gandalf with a sword but certainly the whole "Lookie I can cast a spell AND fight with my quarterstaff!") gives the PCs something else to look forward to.  The stuff for bards epics are pretty interesting (though not sure if anyone will ever use them.) Wizard and Alchemist discoveries are also covered (The former being ideas for replacing feat choices at certain levels, while the latter are just new one that also help with your choice for new archtypes.) Sorcerers also get a good look over with two archtypes. (The Crossblooded allowing more interesting Bloodline powers/combos, while the Wildblooded is more focused.) As it stands there is a goodly amount for 13 out of the 18 classes (I'm including the Magus and the APG classes). The Martial classes (Rogue, Barbarian, Fighter and Cavalier) aren't given anything but that's probably why Ultimate Combat is for. So that's pretty much chapter One.


Chapter Two covers various aspects of spellcasting, primarily summoning outsiders, new stuff for crafting construct (including making one into a suit so you can go all Mecha on those pesky goblins.), example of new spell books. The most useful part of this chapter is the full details it gives on creating new spells. I know for some of my PF players, that will be given a long look see. Otherwise Chapter Two goes pretty short but not so much you'd notice.

Chapter Three covers Feats. Only thing that needs to be said is there some interesting ones (for a paladin like myself, Ultimate Mercy is VERY useful. At the cost of 10 uses of Lay on Hands, you can actually raise dead.), some less so (Create Reliquary Arms and Armor...yeah it's nice flavor wise but is it worthy the feat burn?) but it's feats folks. You can't always please everyone.

Chapter Four covers Words of Power. I'm sure some of you might have heard of it but for  those that don't, here goes. Words of Power are basically something  OTHER than your traditional Vanican magic spells. While they do take up  spell slots, it's more for the purpose of determining the overall power  than it's effect. You can easily have something with say, two different  effects (like perhaps a necromantic blast of power along side your  booming fireball type.), but it will be a tad time consuming. Overall  Words of Power is an interesting piece...but not sure 100% how I feel  about it. It's something I think some players and GMs/DMs will like.  Some won't.

Chapter 5 is spells. Again like feats, some will get some usage, some won't. It's all a matter of perspective.

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;459959After APG, I was a little underwhelmed myself.

In what sense oh mighty Slaad/Psionic one?

I like Pathfinder well enough but with all the new supplements coming out I can see it getting very bogged down and ending up being the confusing mess that 3.5 turned into. I guess that I really shouldn't complain about having too many options especially since the Pathfinder stuff is well made with good art.

Quote from: dogrodeo;459968I like Pathfinder well enough but with all the new supplements coming out I can see it getting very bogged down and ending up being the confusing mess that 3.5 turned into. I guess that I really shouldn't complain about having too many options especially since the Pathfinder stuff is well made with good art.

Well understand this: The APG and the two Ultimate books are the only supplements to a core rule book that's been out for about a year or so. So while it might bog a few things down, you can still (as a DM) disallow the a few things without it completely ruining the fun for the players OR the DM. 3.5 confusing mess was mostly the fact that you had DOZENS of Pr-class classes AND more than 6 base classes. As it stands there's only seven (with a possible 8th in Gunslinger). The archtypes are way more interesting AND lean towards making people want to play their core classes from 1st through 20th. So this makes for less 'dipping into" classes. Fighters can do more than just 'feats', especially leaning towards various 'ideas' of fighter types. Rogues get more than 'skill monkeys'. Etc.

So for me, I'm okay with two more supplements for players. I just prefer they hold off until 2012 before doing more. (which is probably what they'll do.)

Quote from: dogrodeo;459968I like Pathfinder well enough but with all the new supplements coming out I can see it getting very bogged down and ending up being the confusing mess that 3.5 turned into. I guess that I really shouldn't complain about having too many options especially since the Pathfinder stuff is well made with good art.

I just got it as well, and I think it's the third best d&d rule book ever written, just behind the pf core rules and apg.

It's a big step from 3.5. There is only one new base class, no prestige classes, and all most all of the options are low powered and interesting, or only as good as core. If you want to power game, just play 20 levels of a non monk core class. If you want to write up something neat, use ultimate magic.

The new bard masterpieces are hot.

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;459959After APG, I was a little underwhelmed myself.

The apg was the best supplement I've ever seen for any game, and it was full of obvious stuff everyone wanted. UM is a step past obvious things the game needs, making it paizos own instead of just a copy. I think it's great.

Thanks Crane. I honestly do think some of the stuff does step away from 3.5 in the sense it's no longer about burning feats or making the best power games possible. It's more about quality in the way you can have a witch that now can act as a primary healer while still having access to a number of good wizard spells. Or having a summoner be his own personal army. Mostly I think Ultimate magic offers the ideas shown in APG in a new light along side advancing the core classes into other areas without giving out prestige classes.

Unsurprisingly, I do not give a crap.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;460176Unsurprisingly, I do not give a crap.

RPGPundit

That is unsurprising. Next you'll be ridiculing the people that thought the Rapture was on Saturday/Sunday.

Quote from: Nightfall;459960In what sense oh mighty Slaad/Psionic one?

Well, while there are a few interesting tidbits, compared to APG, I'm just not finding the variant options that exciting. The witch player in our group was pretty excited, but for me on the druid/sorcerer/wizard axis, I wasn't too impressed with the new options. I am sort of warming up to the possibilities of staff-like wand discovery.

Many of the options are conceptual retreads of stuff in APG. Serpent shaman... serpent domain, for example?

I'm very meh on the word of power segment. Potentially interesting, but I sort of felt that Elements of Magic did the same thing with more flair, and in a way that is more sensitive to the fact that letting players make up spells in the middle of combat is likely to make the game drag.

Worse, while referencing the book for spells, I keep getting tripped up on the word of power section.

Quote from: dogrodeo;459968I like Pathfinder well enough but with all the new supplements coming out I can see it getting very bogged down and ending up being the confusing mess that 3.5 turned into. I guess that I really shouldn't complain about having too many options especially since the Pathfinder stuff is well made with good art.

That, I don't get.  Unless you are counting all the Golarion stuff, I don't see that supplements are coming out at a breakneck pace, unlike 3.5 (which seemed to have as many as 4 releases a month, at least one of which was a core supplement.) Ultimate Magic is what, the second core supplement for Pathfinder since it released?

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;460519Well, while there are a few interesting tidbits, compared to APG, I'm just not finding the variant options that exciting. The witch player in our group was pretty excited, but for me on the druid/sorcerer/wizard axis, I wasn't too impressed with the new options. I am sort of warming up to the possibilities of staff-like wand discovery.

The witch option I found MOST appealing was the Hedge witch. (Probably because I tried a healer type that also had other stuff and it was...sub-optimal.) That and the Healing patron was probably the highlight for me besides some hexes. I wasn't that keen on the wizards stuff either. Although arcane discoveries were at least more than sub-optimal. Druid wise...not sure. I mean I didn't HATE it, but I agree it wasn't THAT flavorful. Sorcerer wise, I've kind of had my fill of bloodlines for the most part. The wildblooded and crossblooded did at least make for more interesting combos.

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;460519Many of the options are conceptual retreads of stuff in APG. Serpent shaman... serpent domain, for example?

Honestly I try to stay away from snakes.

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;460519I'm very meh on the word of power segment. Potentially interesting, but I sort of felt that Elements of Magic did the same thing with more flair, and in a way that is more sensitive to the fact that letting players make up spells in the middle of combat is likely to make the game drag.

Yeah I wasn't that keen on it...and even after the changes I still don't know if I'm okay with it. That being said it's a very optional system and one I'm less likely to implement than say...Chase rules, Hero Points, or new spells.

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;460519Worse, while referencing the book for spells, I keep getting tripped up on the word of power section.

I generally am trying to work out better ways for players to have quicker access to spells.

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;460519That, I don't get.  Unless you are counting all the Golarion stuff, I don't see that supplements are coming out at a breakneck pace, unlike 3.5 (which seemed to have as many as 4 releases a month, at least one of which was a core supplement.) Ultimate Magic is what, the second core supplement for Pathfinder since it released?

Well depends on if you count the GameMastery Guide and the Bestiary (and/or Bestiary 2) as core. But otherwise you're correct that in terms of PLAYER supplements, this is the second of three so far.

I kind of see the Gamemastery Guide as completely optional more than core. It is chocked full of gaming goodness, but it is not required for play. There is almost too much good stuff in there really. It would be hard to use all of it.

Agreed. The GameMastery guide isn't filled with magic items or stuff that you couldn't find in the core book. Bestiary is core since it's all monsters and most of them aren't in there.