Quote from: SosthenesI really need to find a favorite system I can gush about.

The best thing is to write your own and then continuously comment on how it handles things better.  If you want to be really elite, keep it unpublished and not online so no one can see it, continuously claiming that it's almost ready - that way, no one can dispute your claims.

Trust me, this is the preferred route for many forum moguls.

Quote from: SosthenesI really need to find a favorite system I can gush about.

Jump on the Wushu bandwagon. We don't currently have a Wushu promoter over here, and I think the site really needs one to compete with TBP site...

Plus, it matches many of the other qualifications cited above: It's online only, and most of us know nothing about it... and you could write your own 'take' on it in about five minutes.

Quote from: mythusmageBalance: RPGs are too complex and too dynamic for balance to ever be an achievable goal.

There are levels of balance.  If one character is as powerful as any two others, then that can create issues; others feel lame because their decisions are less important.  If one class/template/build is markedly better than others, then everyone wants to play it, reducing variety.  If its markedly worse, no one wants to play it, also reducing variety.  If success/failure is determined by one particular mechanic or character aspect, then the others become mostly a waste of time.  

The issue is, once some people start aiming for balance, they don't when to stop.  they wind up micro-engineering everything to be 100% level.  I've seen people who desing their own stuff who continuously scrap everything because its not perfect; every week would be new chargen and 30 minutes of play.

Quote from: SpikeJump on the Wushu bandwagon. We don't currently have a Wushu promoter over here, and I think the site really needs one to compete with TBP site...

Oh god, no, please...no.  Especially if they're anything like a certain prolific Wushu Disciple on rpg.net.

Quote from: SpikeJump on the Wushu bandwagon. We don't currently have a Wushu promoter over here, and I think the site really needs one to compete with TBP site...

I have a modicum of self-respect left in me, thankyouverymuch.

Quote from: NicephorusThere are levels of balance.  If one character is as powerful as any two others, then that can create issues; others feel lame because their decisions are less important.  If one class/template/build is markedly better than others, then everyone wants to play it, reducing variety.  If its markedly worse, no one wants to play it, also reducing variety.  If success/failure is determined by one particular mechanic or character aspect, then the others become mostly a waste of time.  

The issue is, once some people start aiming for balance, they don't when to stop.  they wind up micro-engineering everything to be 100% level.  I've seen people who desing their own stuff who continuously scrap everything because its not perfect; every week would be new chargen and 30 minutes of play.

(These forums could use the thread forking feature available over at Circvs Maximvs)

Your point deserves more than a quick, cursory response. The question of how to allow participation by all in an unbalanced game requires a comprehensive answer. Guess we'll have to start a new thread.

Quote from: SosthenesDisadvantages/Flaws/Quirks

I think these work well enough, unless the players are munchinkins/minimaxers.

Oh, I got one now:  Death spells in D&D.  

Sure they're really great when you're a PC, and you can deal with that nasty Ogre by just showing him an eyeful of Phantasmal Killer, but the problem comes when you start hitting the PCs with them.

There's nothing that sucks more than your PC rather unceremoniously getting dropped by some random critter.  It smacks of GM cheap shot.  

I'm not one of those "player empowerment" wonks or anything, I don't expect my characters to be invulnerable to threat, but I do expect to be given the opportunity for an honest fight rather than being blasted with nothing more than a single saving throw to save my ass.

SAVE,
or DIE!

I love that thrill. Especially with Action Points etc. that you can burn to  actually make your save once in a while.

Quote from: SosthenesDisadvantages/Flaws/Quirks

These do work rather well in systems which only grant benefits when the disadvantage causes problems for the character during actual play instead of yielding bonus points for chargen, though.

Save or Die?  How about: Die.

Power Word Kill aka Avada Kedavra aka Finger of Death's big brother.

Save or Die, Instant Death, and Level Draining are the big "fear" effects in D&D -- they can really add to the excitement of the game

Quote from: GrimGentThese do work rather well in systems which only grant benefits when the disadvantage causes problems for the character during actual play instead of yielding bonus points for chargen, though.

That's roughly what I actually meant. You don't have to be a total powergamer to select some disadvantages you didn't have in your concept just to get enough points. It's just to tempting at times.

I don't necceserily see the need why those disadvantages have to rewarded at all. They're just a subset of general role-playing awards. If I have tangible benefits (Willpower, action points etc.), then why should I get them only for a pre-selected type of behavior?

I think Steffan O'Sullivan (he of Fudge fame) once made the suggestion of playing GURPS with 140 points and no gain for disadvantages instead of 100 base points plus 40 points for disads...

Quote from: SosthenesI don't necceserily see the need why those disadvantages have to rewarded at all. They're just a subset of general role-playing awards. If I have tangible benefits (Willpower, action points etc.), then why should I get them only for a pre-selected type of behavior?

Because those disadvantages represent the most severe weaknesses of the character, and confronting them should make her stronger in the long run? Besides, such rewards will encourage the players to get their characters into trouble, which keeps the game rolling along even when things slow down.

Hmm. "Pre-selected type of behavior..." Are you familiar with the Keys in The Shadow of Yesterday?

Quote from: GrimGentBecause those disadvantages represent the most severe weaknesses of the character, and confronting them should make her stronger in the long run?

Why? Weaknesses don't make you strong, they make you weak. If I've got brontophobia and go adventuring during the wrong season in the wrong climate, I'll sit there covering my ears quite often. Why should the character gain some benefit from this?
Confronting and overcoming a disadvantage voluntarily is slightly different, but I still don't see why the character should get special rewards for this. In the end, he might get to "buy off" his disadvantage, which should be enough reward of its own.

Quote from: GrimGentBesides, such rewards will encourage the players to get their characters into trouble, which keeps the game rolling along even when things slow down.

Now we enter the player side of things, the true reason for most flaw mechanics. In my opinion, this makes the characters too one-dimensional. They have certain triggers for role-playing and often ignore that there's something beyond that. I don't want characters that are bundles of quirks.

Disadvantages are often too binary for this. My character might be afraid of guns, too. I would get some decent role-playing out of this, but I don't neccesarily have to have a full-fledged phobia for this. Also, gaining and losing disadvantages is much to mechanical in most games.

As a GM, I don't see a point in codifying the role-playing experience of the player. Disadvantages like "Enemy" are a little different, as they're mostly circumstancial, but most of the time the mechanics of them aren't worth the effort. They offer nothing I couldn't or wouldn't do with a straight-forward background story of each character.

This assumes a rather realistic game, of course. Maybe I'm too cynical to award a player in a normal fantasy world any benefits from choosing a fanatical love to his fiance. If I would run a school-girl game, I might change my mind. I also might put a gun to my head.

Quote from: GrimGentHmm. "Pre-selected type of behavior..." Are you familiar with the Keys in The Shadow of Yesterday?

Nope, never read beyond the name of the author.

Quote from: SosthenesWhy? Weaknesses don't make you strong, they make you weak.

For one thing, it might be in the nature of the setting that suffering refines the soul, and that there's inner strength to be found in the face of adversity.

Quote from: SosthenesMy character might be afraid of guns, too. I would get some decent role-playing out of this, but I don't neccesarily have to have a full-fledged phobia for this. Also, gaining and losing disadvantages is much to mechanical in most games.

Then you could simply leave that fear of guns as a part of the character description and be satisfied with playing it out to a lesser degree. But if you know that as an actual disad the fear might be worth a point whenever there are bullets flying about and picking up a pistol would help, well, why not make it one? There's no requirement for the problem be a paralyzing phobia, after all. MacGyver as a PC could have a similar distaste.

(As for losing and gaining disads, an example from Nobilis: Handicaps for the PCs can be freely selected at any time, even during the game, but they can only be discarded between stories. Choose one, and you are stuck with it indefinitely.)

Quote from: SosthenesNope, never read beyond the name of the author.

Basically, the Keys allow the players to decide exactly what kinds of events earn their characters XP.