I know it's been scoffed at over here because of how it's turned into the latest RPG.net Darling, but did anyone over here pre-order Steve Kenson's ICONS?
I did, and I know Tim Kirk did, (and I THINK I saw BASHMAN posting like he did) but we're both pretty hardcore Supers geeks (I mean, I write comics and he designs Supers RPGs...and neither of us make squat doing it...that's pretty geeky)...
It's pretty cool. Not the "cure for cancer" or anything, mind you. Seems like a fun, goofy pick-up game (longest part of character generation is picking Aspects, and you can choose to just start with two and define the rest in play) that is heavily based off of Marvel FASERIP, with a few hints of Marvel SAGA in there, plus FATE-style Aspects. Of the Supers RPGs I have purchased lately, it excites me more than Supers, but less than BASH Ultimate Edition.
I feel like my random ICONS characters are more coherent than my old random FASERIP characters, but that could be less to do with the game and more to do with being 16 years older or so.
I like it so far. It's quite simple, and yes I pre-ordered it. Despite being "inspired by Fate" its more straightforward and traditional in many ways than many actual Fate descendants.
I feel its about as random as MSH (from which it stole Bonus Powers, and of course the long lineage of Power Stunts.)
I'm somewhat perturbed that they stole the Sisterhood from me. (Sort of..) Yet, I guess that's the way of superhero games--lots of similarities.
It's not the game's fault that rpg.net overdo their adulation (before even playing it). Though I do think that response harms it when it's at the level concerned.
I didn't preorder it, but then i don't preorder games. Will this be the greatest shrpg? Who knows. Golden heroes still has yet to be beat in so many many ways. Will it be better than M&M, probably because that game is too complicated for me. Will it be better than Wild Talents, don't know i'd like to buy WT but i can't afford it.
But my concern is that it's another in the timeless list of shrpg's. That's fine, but what happens when the next rpg.net darling comes along using the darling system of the day. How fickle people can be. I mean, we can't possibly run every shrpg going (unless you're a professional reviewer perhaps).
So yes, i'm interested in how it works (is it really that different from spirit of the century which is, essentially, the same thing as far as i can tell - a fate based superpowers game). But i'm not sure i'm in the market for it. Certainly not before i ever get to read Wild Talents.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;381604It's not the game's fault that rpg.net overdo their adulation (before even playing it). Though I do think that response harms it when it's at the level concerned.
I didn't preorder it, but then i don't preorder games. Will this be the greatest shrpg? Who knows. Golden heroes still has yet to be beat in so many many ways. Will it be better than M&M, probably because that game is too complicated for me. Will it be better than Wild Talents, don't know i'd like to buy WT but i can't afford it.
But my concern is that it's another in the timeless list of shrpg's. That's fine, but what happens when the next rpg.net darling comes along using the darling system of the day. How fickle people can be. I mean, we can't possibly run every shrpg going (unless you're a professional reviewer perhaps).
So yes, i'm interested in how it works (is it really that different from spirit of the century which is, essentially, the same thing as far as i can tell - a fate based superpowers game). But i'm not sure i'm in the market for it. Certainly not before i ever get to read Wild Talents.
I pre-ordered it, but barely paid attention to the RPG.net stuff...I bought it mostly on the strength of Adamant Entertainment's other works (particularly Thrilling Tales), Steve Kenson's involvement and the fact that I could tell it's lighter than Mutants & Masterminds.
Incidentally, in the foreword, Kenson explains his reasoning behind making the game as "I thought it would be fun", basically. After the awesome adventure generator in Thrilling Tales, and the hints of one like it in ICONS, I was *really* let down by that...and the GMing section just doesn't hold up to the GMing advice/campaign level information/sheer number of options present in BASH:UE.
I'm not regretting the purchase, because I had the money and I like supers RPGs, but I'm sure I will spend *way* more time making random characters then I will using the game.
OH, re: Spirit of the Century.
It doesn't have the "skill ladder" or whatever it was called...and Aspects are limited entirely to characters and not to scenes.
It is REALLY more of a simplified FASERIP (stats are simplified to a 1-10 scale instead of 1 to, well, infinity) than a Spirit of the Century supers game, as far as I can tell.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;381604So yes, i'm interested in how it works (is it really that different from spirit of the century which is, essentially, the same thing as far as i can tell - a fate based superpowers game). But i'm not sure i'm in the market for it. Certainly not before i ever get to read Wild Talents.
It is really different than SOTC--which is more pulp heroes, and a bit more crunchy than Icons. Icons has no Skill Ladder, no stress tracks, no potentially huge lists of of aspects. Just a few key things. It also has attributes which most FATE3 games don't have per se.
Is it good? Yes. Is it brilliant? I can't say. I think its a bit more traditional than most Fate things, which is good and bad. I like it well enough.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;381604Will it be better than Wild Talents, don't know i'd like to buy WT but i can't afford it.
But i'm not sure i'm in the market for it. Certainly not before i ever get to read Wild Talents.
Are you aware of the "rules only (http://www.arcdream.com/store/product.php?id=2006)" version of
WT?
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;381576It's pretty cool. Not the "cure for cancer" or anything, mind you.
Now
that would give the hobby the mainstream appeal some people want. :D
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;381576Seems like a fun, goofy pick-up game (longest part of character generation is picking Aspects, and you can choose to just start with two and define the rest in play) that is heavily based off of Marvel FASERIP, with a few hints of Marvel SAGA in there, plus FATE-style Aspects. Of the Supers RPGs I have purchased lately, it excites me more than Supers, but less than BASH Ultimate Edition.
Very intriguing. I am somewhat familiar with FASERIP (played a couple of times back in the day, and recently acquired a copy), and I've never played SAGA, but on this other thread (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=17167) it was highly praised by some.
As for FATE, the jury's still out (I've only run one session, and I'd like to run a few more before passing judgement on the system), but I suppose supers is probably the best genre for it. Though from what you've posted later, looks like all it's taken from FATE is a fairly simplified implementation of Aspcets, and little more.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;381604I didn't preorder it, but then i don't preorder games.
That makes two of us. Septimus, anyone? Eoris?
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;381604Will it be better than Wild Talents, don't know i'd like to buy WT but i can't afford it.
WT Essential Edition is $10 and has all the crunch you need (little or no fluff), and it seems to be available via IPR but not Amazon. I'd like to pick up the full-blown WT 2e just for Ken Hite's setting creation chapter, but at $50 (or even $32 from Amazon) I'm not sure I can afford the luxury, either.
EDIT: Scooped by Dubya, right above.
Anyway, I've recently borrowed a friend's WTEE and it's a good, solid system. Character creation is not at all complicated, as far as point-buy goes, and feels a lot like the simpler implementations of Storyteller (i.e. NOT like Aberrant, or Exalted, or Scion). Archetypes and Meta-Qualities don't strike me as indispensable, but may come in handy in four-color games with lots of "meta-powers" (power duplication, power negation etc.) going on, and I actually like tinkering with them and creating new ones. And power creation, of course, is where the game shines.
Mind you, I am NOT a gearhead, and the words "character build" make me cringe. Hell, maybe it's all the medication (I've just had dental surgery). But I'm enjoying character and power creation (the "Miracle Cafeteria" is great help) far more than I expected. Of course, it takes a lot of player-GM trust (or just a strong GM present at character creation), but we're fine with it. Besides, I have yet to see how it fares in actual play (I am still worried about the relativbely frequent complaints of grittiness/lethality).
Quote from: Steve Dubya;381618Are you aware of the "rules only (http://www.arcdream.com/store/product.php?id=2006)" version of WT?
Yes, but it's not in the shops and I don't do pdf's nor can I afford postage fees.
I pre-ordered this one because I'm also a major supers geek.
Quote from: Kinetic;381679I pre-ordered this one because I'm also a major supers geek.
Ah-ha!
Any thoughts thus far?
Quote from: Kinetic;381679I pre-ordered this one because I'm also a major supers geek.
Yay!
I thought I'd share the first PC I rolled up. Naming suggestion from Tommy has stuck so far. (It's pretty Silver Age..though)
Name: Commander Cranium
Epitaph: Master of the Unassailable Mind
Identity: Former Military Officer
Motivation: Defending the Innocent
Challenge: Enemy (Left Blank for GM.)
Prowess: 5
Coordination: 5
Strength: 5
Intellect: 6
Awareness: 5
Willpower: 10
Powers:
Telepathy 6
Telekinesis 6
Esp 5
Specialties: Leadership, Military
Determination: 2 Stamina: 15 Background: Commander Cranium was once Commander John Kincaid, a military officer of some note who'd been moving swiftly up the ranks due to his tactical mind and skilled leadership. When some of his men went MIA, and he was frustrated with the official investigation he went on leave due to "mental stress."
Shortly thereafter he found himself in a small "unnamed" country tracking down the war criminal who may have been behind the disappearance and possible deaths of his soldiers.
Assailing the compound where he believed they were being kept, he was shot, captured, and locked in a cell. Everyday they would come and torture him, laughing at his pain and his weakening demands to see his men. Drugged he was moved cells to avoid him being discovered by some U.N inspectors. There he was thrown into a dirty 5x5 room with a withered old man who refused to speak, eat, or otherwise interact with the guards. Little by little the old man nursed Commander Kincaid to health, between the rounds of mental and physical torture. The man who gave his name only as Shirav. Each night as the guards left them alone the old man would whisper, ever so softly to Kincaid. At first he could not understand. Then each night as he struggled for strength and to hear, the man's words became clearer. The words were kind, assurances that his men would be well. that they were nearby. He must refuse to break a little longer. Keep fighting. For he was the only one who could rescue them.
One day he was returned to his cell and found the old man meditating. Angrily the guards struck the old man down with the rifle and spat on him. The old man reassured him. He was alright. He must be strong and not give into anger. Only through perseverance would free him Determined Kincaid rose onto his unsteady feet and fixed the guard with a stare that could shake mountains. The man was held unmoving, unable to strike Shirav. Something had snapped inside Kincaid. His mind was free.
Helping up Shirav, the guard yelled for aid, but they could not stop him as he tossed them aside like litter and smashed his way through walls with his mind, all the while carrying out this tiny, frail, old man.
Finding the warlord, he demanded his men. Frightened at the fierce glowing eyes and shifting room around him as he was held aloft and spun like a top. He stammered they were not there! Yet Kincaid knew he lied, and spun him. Telling the warlord that Shirav had told him they were! Terrified, the warlord denied this again--claiming he was mad, that Shirav had no TONGUE to speak. Kincaid laughed then. He knew the truth from the warlords mind. Slamming him into the ground he floated out, smashing everything in his pass. Still cradling Shirav.
His men he found, delirious, ill. He freed them and floated them into a vehicle which he then moved by will alone.
Arriving at the nearest friendly base. He collapsed at last. Safe. The last thing he heard before darkness claimed him was Shirav's voice. "You are at last..free"
The military had many questions for him, but the top brass demanded much of his time for weeks. He didn't see Shirav again. Unwilling to utilize his powers entirely in the service of military agendas and for political gain, he retired, and turned into being a superhero. Only a few top brass know the whole story, and know Commander Cranium's secret identity, and they do occasionally call on him when the need is great enough. Knowing full well he will serve the best interests of his ideals.
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;381708Ah-ha!
Any thoughts thus far?
Had no time to go through it yet. Monday is one of my game nights, so I got home late, spent some time with the girlfriend and then went to bed kinda early. Tonight, however, I will be venturing into the long forgotten realm of random character generation.
And I couldn't be happier :D
Quote from: Kinetic;381728Had no time to go through it yet. Monday is one of my game nights, so I got home late, spent some time with the girlfriend and then went to bed kinda early. Tonight, however, I will be venturing into the long forgotten realm of random character generation.
And I couldn't be happier :D
I've made nine freaking characters since last night...=P
Four heroes, four villains and an undiscriminating angel of death.
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;381741I've made nine freaking characters since last night...=P
Four heroes, four villains and an undiscriminating angel of death.
By all means, Mr. Brownell, do share.
Savage (real name unknown)
Origin: Transformed.
Prowess: 5
Coordination: 6
Strength: 4
Intellect: 4
Awareness: 7
Willpower: 4
Powers
Mental: Animal Control 5
Sensory: Detection (Life) 5
Control: Wizardry (Cosmic Power, Does Not Affect Non-Living Beings) 7
Super Speed
Strike (Slashing)
Specialties
Athletics
Mental Resistance
Power (Wizardry)
Qualities
"God of Beasts"
Protect Life
Challenges
Animal Rage
Stamina: 8
Determination: 1
The being known as Savage was a tribal warrior blessed with a direct link to all life on earth. As the protector of The Source of Life, Savage can summon animals to his side, and utilize The Source of Life in a variety of ways, the most common being to accelerate his speed and form claws for combat.
The Source cannot be used to affect non-living objects, which has made Savage's battles with the mechanized insectoid H.I.V.E. rather intense affairs. While Savage is sworn to protect all life, he feels far more comfortable in the wild than in civilzation (where his powers affect far more), but this detachment from humanity has also begun to erode his "human" sensibilities, leaving him in the thrall of an animalistic rage at times.
Notes: This is the first character I rolled up, and the concept just kept changing as I was reading the powers and such I was rolling. Norman human scale on abilities is 3-6, with anything below being impaired and anything above being superhuman, for those of you who don't have ICONS but may be reading this...and it is random character generation, the only things actually being selected are the limit on, and type of, Wizardry, plus the Qualities and Challenges. Every character can give each on Qualities and Challenges, but the book offers an option for only picking two Qualities and defining everything else in play.
Up next will be the high-tech Hi-Speed.
Hi-Speed (James Jensen)
Origin: Gimmick
Prowess: 5
Coordination: 4
Strength: 5
Intellect: 7
Awareness: 5
Willpower: 3
Sensory: Interface Device 6
Control: Wizardry (Gadgets) 5
Force Field
Teleportation
Offensive: Fast Attack Device 4
Electronics Expert
Mechanics Expert
Qualities
Technical Whiz
Motivation: Shutting down the abuses of technology
Connections: BETTY - His robot girlfriend.
Challenges
Socially Inept
Stamina 8
Determination 1
James Jensen was a tech geek and hacker who saw technology in and of itself as a good thing, but was increasingly annoyed with the rise of technologically enhanced villains, hi-tech crime and so on. Putting his genius to work, Jensen devised a form-fitting suit that allows him to not only jack his mind into a computer device directly, but also responds to him at the speed of thought, giving him far more efficiency in combat than would be expected from a tech geek. Becoming the hero Hi-Speed, he specializes in stopping hi-tech crime and criminals, armed with his power suit and array of gadgets, including a teleporter and a force field generator.
Jensen does have issues relating with people, however...which is why he's constantly working to perfect BETTY, his robotic "companion".
Notes: I couldn't really find a hook for this guy, and most of the above came off the top of my head a few minutes ago. Such is the fun of random rolling...;) Up next is a superpowered Top Cop.
I only rolled up five (Commander Cranium and 4 others.)
One I decided was an avatar of my namesake. (Its close enough via Random rolls that only a whee bit of shaving filled him out.)
Doctor Fulcrum (II)
Origin: Gimmick
Catchphrase: Give me a lever long enough, and I will move mountains!
Challenges: Connections (Wife, Young daughter, friends)
Motivation: Save the world, with SCIENCE!
Prowess 5
Coordination 6
Strength 4
Intellect 7
Awareness 5
Willpower 4
Powers:
Strike 5 (Staff/Lever)
Density 7
Leaping 4 (Pole vault and density shifting)
Specialties
Weapons (Staff)
Electronics
Physic
Determination: 2 Stamina: 8
Doctor Fulcrum (II) (Daniel Fulsom) had just earned his doctorate in physics when his daughter Samantha was born. He and his wife struggled with all the woes of a married couple with a newborn. Sleepless nights, money stresses, and so on. Yet their deep love held them together through the craziness of the first two years.
That was until the fateful day when a foolish young man took the school where Daniel's wife Elena worked hostage. Across town and watching it unfold, the police were intractable on the young man's mad demands. Watching his wife's face as one of those directly in line of fire when the young man allowed a student to film them with their camera phone. Quickly brainstorming a solution he determined that it likely the police would manage to get the young man out but not before he turned the gun on one or more hostages. However, the stress in his voice, and his obvious depression and lack of hope might be redirected if something showed him that civilians could make a difference, that knowledge WOULD matter. Dr. Fulcrum quickly fashioned a rough costume and turned one of his small projects into a portable device. He then utilized it to get across town (nearly bashing in his own skull as he did so.) When he arrived on scene, he managed to talk the police into letting him inside the school. Cautiously approaching the young man he realized he was the same age as the students and very frightened. Using the most booming voice he could manage. (And giving himself away to his wife--since he'd used it for Santa Claus at Christmas.) He approached the boy and demonstrated the amazing tool he'd created with knowledge, and science. He pointed out that he two had been picked on at school once years ago, but was now a hero! What more could anyone ask? Deftly redirecting the boys fears and self-doubts from bullying and prejudice he managed to calm him down and walk him out--without landing a single blow, or causing a single gunshot.
It wasn't until he got home and his wife asked if he'd planned to keep doing this in "that godawful outfit" that he realized logic, science, and gentle heroism as well as fisticuffs could be used to protect people. He nodded and his wife shook her head. "Well at least let me make you a better costume.."
I don't have a picture yet, I prefer to draw mine so unlikely I'll get one done before this thread vanishes..:D
Pooka
Origin: Birthright (Faery Lord)
Identity: Brilliant and quirky high school student
Challenges:Personal (Church Bells Drive him away in pain)
Prowess 4
Coordination 5
Strength 6
Intellect 6
Awareness 4
Willpower 4
Powers
Wizardry 6 (Cosmic: Faery Magic Doesn't work on cold iron)
Invisibility 6
Specialties:
Occult
Languages
Mental Resistance
Determination: 4 Stamina: 10
Pooka is a Faery Lord and Ladies son named Oberith--fascinated with the human (mortal) world, he ran away from home, and quickly enrolled himself in highschool using his magics, and other abilities. He got involved in hero-ing when he saw a magic using villain duking it out downtown while he was having this mortal food "pizza" which he adores.
Not wishing to be known he turned invisible and proceeded to school the human wizard. His keen occult senses shaken by the disruption of his magics he quickly explained it must be a "pooka's" work. Despite the misnomer it worked much better than "Faery Boy" or "Faery Lord" so he kept it. It wasn't until a few weeks later he showed up for a tryout of a "teen" group looking for members that he made a costume and used the name for the first time. He's really just out to have fun. But he rather likes the human world, and would hate to see anything untowards happen to it. He has a stilted way of speaking that most think is geeky but "cute." He's enjoying his life, and fears his parents will intervene and call him back to the Seelie Court before he's ready to go back. Sometime in the next ten years or more. Pooka dresses in spooky wizard's robe, complete with hood. though should his hood fall back he always has used his magic to make his head look like some animals. Sometimes a dogs, sometimes a rabbit, once he did a moose, and often he just makes himself invisible under the robe. He's not very serious and he mostly watches too much television.
Herald
Origin: Unearthly
Identity: Alien Harbinger of Peace
Catchphrase: "Don't run! I'll just get there first!"
Challenges: Enemy (Chthun), Social (Appearance)
Prowess: 5
Coordination: 7
Strength: 7
Intellect: 5
Awareness: 5
Willpower: 5
Powers:
Superspeed 7
Regeneration 4
Specialties:
Pilot
Computers
Language
Determination: 2 Stamina: 12
Backgroun: Al'x Andr's (Alex Andrews) is an alien from a distant star known as Cetas. A herald sent to Earth and make his people known as friends of humanity. He's completely serious. His world has attained a virtual utopia, and frankly he got bored. When they posited a mission to explore new worlds and bring peace to them, he leaped at the chance. He went through two years of intense training to learn to pilot the exploratory ship, developing languages skills, and the like. Fortunately his species learns fast. Herald (As he we came to be called) wasn't looking specifically for Earth. That was a happy accident as he was scanning the path of a Cthun slave ship that passed by Earth. It paused to take readings which was a serious warning to Alex of future slave raids. While his people had faced and driven the Cthun away from their homeworld, fiercely enough that they were marked off limits to the slow and powerful toadlike aliens. He new they'd return to this world and carry out their plans of conquest and slavery. So he parked his ship somewhere he though safe, and began exploring and learning the natives language and ways. Alex is truly enjoying this excursion and is acting pretty much as a sole agent for his people. Though they might not see everything he has done as appropriate they did send him, so he had to have done something right. Alex is a gadabout. He loves dancing, chasing women (humans are lovely,) and generally having a good time on planet Earth. More to the point he is following his peoples master plan to bring peace, and law to the planet. Despite his many attempts to move forward with sweeping plans for social change, he, admittedly is not the best diplomat, and lacks true ability for much subterfuge. He's hontest, forthright, and has a smile for everyone, even criminals before he takes them on. He's generally a good guy. Unfortunately Cetasians have blue grey skin that is slick and looks much like a dolphins. A narrow ridged head fin with no hair,
black eyes and razor sharp teeth that match together like the teeth of a cartoon shark. While handsome despite this, it can be a bit unnerving when he smiles.
I really like what I'm reading here, and here (http://icons-truth-justice-and-gaming.wikispaces.com/) too.
My mood has shifted from "leery of pre-release hype" to "cautious optimism".
I like how they present options for both random and deliberate PC generation, and how they make it seem so light and carefree.
Now I ask, as a personal favor, from those who have pre-ordered. Can anyone show me a power-armored genius inventor Iron Man type? I ask because, they're pretty much my "measuring stick" for supers games.
Quote from: The Butcher;382238I really like what I'm reading here, and here (http://icons-truth-justice-and-gaming.wikispaces.com/) too.
My mood has shifted from "leery of pre-release hype" to "cautious optimism".
I like how they present options for both random and deliberate PC generation, and how they make it seem so light and carefree.
Now I ask, as a personal favor, from those who have pre-ordered. Can anyone show me a power-armored genius inventor Iron Man type? I ask because, they're pretty much my "measuring stick" for supers games.
I completely understand that thought process. Not so much because I like those characters myself, but because I have a friend who is a HUGE Iron Man fan, and making a powered armor guy comes up a lot in each system (and sometimes works, and sometimes leaves us screaming at the books).
The rules as written give you an "either/or"...you use random rolls or you use point buy. But I'll fudge things a bit to show you how it works. Actually, I'll just convert Iron Man...=P
Iron Man (Tony Stark)
Origin: Gimmick
Prowess: 5
Coordination: 6
Strength: 7
Intellect: 7
Awareness: 5
Willpower: 3
Powers
Iron Man Armor
Blast (Energy) 8
Flight 8
Invulnerability 8
Life Support (Breathing, Radiation) 2
Resistance (Protected Senses) 8
Specialties
Aerial Combat
Business
Mechanics Master
Qualities
Identity - Billionaire Playboy
Epithet - "The Invincible Iron Man"
Connections - Pepper Potts, Happy Hogan & Jarvis
Challenges
Personal -Demons in a Bottle
Enemy - The Mandarin
Weakness - Powerless without suit (No powers and physical stats drop to 3)
Personal - Weak Heart
Stamina: 10
Determination: 1
Notes: This is a straight conversion from Marvel FASERIP, from the '92 stats, so this is hardly accurate today. (For those who don't know, ICONS has a list of "names" for each stat level, and each one has a suggested name that pretty well matches with the Marvel scale). I would definitely put Stark's Willpower higher than that...not pushing Captain America or Dr. Strange territory, but definitely higher than that. As well, it has been established that his physical stats should be higher (without the armor), especially as Cap has trained him to fight unarmored.
If the powers seem simplistic, just remember that you can tag the "Invincible Iron Man" quality and use that as an excuse for any reasonable stunt, including changing up the type of Blast and so forth. His stats look pretty stacked, but they probably should be. He's one of Earth's Mightiest Heroes. However, he NEEDS all of those challenges in order to get the kind of determination that he needs to pull off the Big Damn Hero stuff.
For specialties, I didn't give him Electronics, going to assume that his Intellect is going to be good enough. Definitely a Mechanics Master, though. I gave him Business, but not at too high a level...after all, he's already got five Specialities (Mastery takes three slots), but his company gets ripped away from him all the time. In fact, you could argue for ditching it. He does need at least a level of Aerial Combat, IMHO, though Mechanics Mastery is the one that makes this build.
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;382336I completely understand that thought process. Not so much because I like those characters myself, but because I have a friend who is a HUGE Iron Man fan, and making a powered armor guy comes up a lot in each system (and sometimes works, and sometimes leaves us screaming at the books).
Emphasis mine. I'm kind of glad you've posted this, because I thought it was just me. :o I'm not a huge Iron Man fan
per se, but I like the "powered armor" concept.
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;382336The rules as written give you an "either/or"...you use random rolls or you use point buy. But I'll fudge things a bit to show you how it works. Actually, I'll just convert Iron Man...=P
Wow, that's... really thorough. I was kind of curious to see a "legal" starting character, but that does the trick just as well. :) Thanks!
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;382336If the powers seem simplistic, just remember that you can tag the "Invincible Iron Man" quality and use that as an excuse for any reasonable stunt, including changing up the type of Blast and so forth. His stats look pretty stacked, but they probably should be. He's one of Earth's Mightiest Heroes. However, he NEEDS all of those challenges in order to get the kind of determination that he needs to pull off the Big Damn Hero stuff.
Now this is intriguing. From what I've read, Qualities work like your usual FATE 3.0 Aspects (i.e. player tags for bonus, by spending Fate Points, i.e. Determination; GM compels and the player may comply and gain Determination, or resist by spending Determination), while Challenges are specifically "compel-only" Aspects. Is that right?
You also speak of stunts. Is that achieved via a flat die-roll (influenced by tagged Qualities and the accompanying Determination spenditure), or is there a more involved subsystem?
And what is the relevance of the different "categories" of Qualities and Challenges? Is it merely illustrative, or are there actual, in-game effects, that distinguish Epithets and Catchphrases and so forth? Also, "Invincible Iron Man" (or "Earth's Mightiest Mortal", or any similarly hyperbolic appelation) sounds like it could be tagged for just about anything.
:hmm: Curiouser and curiouser.
Once again, thanks! :)
Quote from: The Butcher;382358Emphasis mine. I'm kind of glad you've posted this, because I thought it was just me. :o I'm not a huge Iron Man fan per se, but I like the "powered armor" concept.
Now this is intriguing. From what I've read, Qualities work like your usual FATE 3.0 Aspects (i.e. player tags for bonus, by spending Fate Points, i.e. Determination; GM compels and the player may comply and gain Determination, or resist by spending Determination), while Challenges are specifically "compel-only" Aspects. Is that right?
You also speak of stunts. Is that achieved via a flat die-roll (influenced by tagged Qualities and the accompanying Determination spenditure), or is there a more involved subsystem?
And what is the relevance of the different "categories" of Qualities and Challenges? Is it merely illustrative, or are there actual, in-game effects, that distinguish Epithets and Catchphrases and so forth? Also, "Invincible Iron Man" (or "Earth's Mightiest Mortal", or any similarly hyperbolic appelation) sounds like it could be tagged for just about anything.
:hmm: Curiouser and curiouser.
Once again, thanks! :)
Oooooh no, it's not just you...I promise.
The categories are there more as guidelines for someone who's not sure how to come up with suitable qualities. And yeah, stuff like "Invincible Iron Man" can be tagged for a bunch of stuff, especially just about anything armor related, so long as the GM thinks it makes sense.
Sounds like Aspects work more or less the same in FATE (which I'm not terribly familiar with) and ICONS (which I am still learning). Stunts are achieved by describing what you want to do, and tagging an appropriate Quality. If the GM approves, you roll against the Power you're using, though you can use Determination to boost this roll to ensure success. If you fail, the stunt fails. If you get an effect of a 0, the stunt works, but with an unintended side effect. Any clear success is a clear success.
An optional rule has it so that after you have used the same stunt 10 times, it becomes essentially a bonus power (not unlike how Classic Marvel made you stop spending Karma to perform stunts after the tenth success).
I hope that helps, sorry if I'm not explaining well...=P
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;382360Oooooh no, it's not just you...I promise.
This is a huge relief, seriously, I thought I was superhero-RPG-dyslexic or something.
Interestingly, this RP-by-post thread over at RPGnet (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=515631) puts forth a randomly-created hero (Character #2, I think) with the Wizardry power, which apparently, despite the name, may be applied to technological gadgets.
If it works like I'm imagining it, i.e. a super-flexible "wild card" power like classic MEGS DC Heroes' Sorcery or Omni-Power, it could be a nice way of simulating Iron Man's (and a few other suited heroes') propensity for installing all sorts of interesting peripherals to their armor suits, from satellite comlinks, to holographic image projectors, to particle accelerators. What do you think?
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;382360Stunts are achieved by describing what you want to do, and tagging an appropriate Quality. If the GM approves, you roll against the Power you're using, though you can use Determination to boost this roll to ensure success. If you fail, the stunt fails. If you get an effect of a 0, the stunt works, but with an unintended side effect. Any clear success is a clear success.
Gimmicky. I like it. :D
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;382360An optional rule has it so that after you have used the same stunt 10 times, it becomes essentially a bonus power (not unlike how Classic Marvel made you stop spending Karma to perform stunts after the tenth success).
So players are who use stunts to create signature moves, are mechanically rewarded with the stunt as a bonus power? Very interesting.
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;382360I hope that helps, sorry if I'm not explaining well...=P
Not at all, it's being quite clarifying. In fact, if I end up buying ICONS, you should call Adamant and demand a sales comission. ;)
Quote from: The Butcher;382382This is a huge relief, seriously, I thought I was superhero-RPG-dyslexic or something.
Interestingly, this RP-by-post thread over at RPGnet (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=515631) puts forth a randomly-created hero (Character #2, I think) with the Wizardry power, which apparently, despite the name, may be applied to technological gadgets.
If it works like I'm imagining it, i.e. a super-flexible "wild card" power like classic MEGS DC Heroes' Sorcery or Omni-Power, it could be a nice way of simulating Iron Man's (and a few other suited heroes') propensity for installing all sorts of interesting peripherals to their armor suits, from satellite comlinks, to holographic image projectors, to particle accelerators. What do you think?
Wizardry has three "types"...Cosmic Power, Gadgets and Wizardry...each is keyed to a separate mental stat, and each has a drawback (Cosmic Power has to have a specified weakness, like the color yellow, for instance. Gadgets can be taken away. Wizardry requires being able to speak and and gesture). You get two free powers that you can duplicate with Wizardry, and any other power can be used with a successful stunt...you just gotta explain it. VERY flexible, though I don't know if Gadgets works quite the way you're thinking, due to the fact that they can be taken away.
And I am glad this is helping...=)
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;382389Wizardry has three "types"...Cosmic Power, Gadgets and Wizardry...each is keyed to a separate mental stat, and each has a drawback (Cosmic Power has to have a specified weakness, like the color yellow, for instance. Gadgets can be taken away. Wizardry requires being able to speak and and gesture). You get two free powers that you can duplicate with Wizardry, and any other power can be used with a successful stunt...you just gotta explain it. VERY flexible, though I don't know if Gadgets works quite the way you're thinking, due to the fact that they can be taken away.
And I am glad this is helping...=)
I could see it being used tied to a physical trait for Martial arts maneuvers for a chi powered combatant.
Quote from: Silverlion;382420I could see it being used tied to a physical trait for Martial arts maneuvers for a chi powered combatant.
Good call. That would be a perfectly good 'hack' for the system.
I'm still really not seeing what all the fuss is about. It looks like just one more perfectly servicable SHRPG game. I'm not saying in anyway it's bad, but the adulation is doing my head in (not so much over here). What happens when the next big SHRPG is released and this one joins the ranks of 'here today gone tomorrow' and abandoned. Gaming seems to be suffering some kind of weird ADD.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;382483I'm still really not seeing what all the fuss is about. It looks like just one more perfectly servicable SHRPG game. I'm not saying in anyway it's bad, but the adulation is doing my head in (not so much over here). What happens when the next big SHRPG is released and this one joins the ranks of 'here today gone tomorrow' and abandoned. Gaming seems to be suffering some kind of weird ADD.
You act like that's a new thing...:D
I think the big deal is Steve Kenson has a track record (Long before M&M he was doing solid articles for supers.) Add to that M&M's castoffs who want something where "builds" aren't important, just play--and you get Icons popularity.
I think its a good light system--that looks like it will get solid support which is a good thing to me. (I wish I could do more support, for H&S but sheesh one guy can only do so much, with other games to write.)
As previously mentioned--it isn't the cure for cancer. Most of the big deal elements, are its a TBP darling. Will it last? Who knows? Probably not with DC and M&M3 coming out. Despite that, I like it a lot. :D I'd put it close to Truth & Justice for me--solid game that does something neat.
I think i'd be more interested if it was offering something a bit different, but from the stats i've seen listed (which is the closest i'll get to understanding the rules as an outsider) it's just a.n. other shrpg. YMMV
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;382486I think i'd be more interested if it was offering something a bit different, but from the stats i've seen listed (which is the closest i'll get to understanding the rules as an outsider) it's just a.n. other shrpg. YMMV
I think aspects (qualities and challenges) are its "new" thing, and even then we've got those from Fate, albeit these are incredibly simplified.
About it really.
Well, okay, you don't see the point in it...that's cool. Some folks do. And yeah, some of those folks will move onto The Next Big Thing, and others have probably found the supers game they will play the rest of their lives, like the folks who will still play nothing but Marvel FASERIP or DC Heroes and so on.
I think it looks like a pretty swell pick-up game, and character generation is fun in the same way Marvel FASERIP was. Overall, it doesn't seem nearly as impressive, depth-wise, as BASH Ultimate Edition, but I do get a pretty big kick out of sitting and rolling up characters.
Quote from: The Butcher;382358Wow, that's... really thorough. I was kind of curious to see a "legal" starting character, but that does the trick just as well. :) Thanks!
Incidentally, I *did* keep him within "legal" starting range on everything...just a bit stacked (though with the random generation, that is very possible).
John Law (Jack Justice)
Origin: Birthright
Prowess: 5
Coordination: 5
Strength: 4
Intellect: 4
Awareness: 5
Willpower: 4
3 Powers
Superpowered Shutdown (Control: Power Nullification Device 5)
Crowd Control Bullets (Offensive: Blast Device 7, Blasting)
Energy Baton (Offensive: Strike Device 6)
Telekinetic Heritage (Control: Telekinesis 5)
2 Specialties
Law
Powers (Telekinesis)
Qualities
Catchphrase: "I AM The Law"
Connections: City Police
Motivation: Clean Up The Streets
Challenges
Evil Super-Brother
Lawful Stupid
Stamina 8
Determination 2
John Law is the Top Cop in the Metahuman Containment Division. Armed with Mercy Bullets, an Energy Baton and a Power Nullifier, John Law patrols the streets specifically for superhuman crime. However, he's not COMPLETELY "normal", as he has been born the gift to Telekinesis, which he uses to augment his activities.
John Law is haunted by the fact that his brother, also a telekinetic, is a nefarious criminal. John Law is also bound, strictly, by the law, refusing to bend it even in times of desperation. He also tends to take situations at face value, which has led to more than one ambush for the super cop.
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/TheFamousTommyZ/johnlaw.jpg)
I, too, preordered because I'm a supers geek. At one time, I had most of the supers rpgs on my bookshelf, but I've been able to ween myself from the addiction. I've gotten rid of most of them, with a few more to go.
I picked up Icons because it looked to be a nice alternative to V&V (which remains on my bookshelf). Especially as it comes to running a game online, I was very unhappy with how V&V worked, and I believe Icons will be the one to use for that.
Not to totally necro this, but I just picked up ICONS this weekend, and it is pretty great. It really does feel like a simplified version of FASERIP, and in my book, that's a good thing. I can't wait to run a session and make some supers!
Quote from: Zachary The First;393114Not to totally necro this, but I just picked up ICONS this weekend, and it is pretty great. It really does feel like a simplified version of FASERIP, and in my book, that's a good thing. I can't wait to run a session and make some supers!
Dude...just make supers NOW.
Even if I never run it, sitting and rolling up characters is worth it...=P
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;393115Dude...just make supers NOW.
Even if I never run it, sitting and rolling up characters is worth it...=P
Oh, I plan on it! :) It looks like so much fun!
Anyone know if they are still selling the Hardback and PDF together?
I'd like to get this, but it's the sort of game I'd want both for.
http://mostunreadblogever.blogspot.com/2010/07/tmnt-icons-in-half-shell.html
I just posted Leonardo, Michelangelo, Donatello and Raphael over at my blog. If I feel so inclined, I may continue statting up the "Turtlesverse".
Oh I'm getting this one. I'm hoping for something roughly in the same class as the old TSR Marvel Super Heroes, but perhaps a little more polished, and that is really mostly for the benefit of prospective players.
I'm not looking of miracles. If the Aspects help the players focus more on the person rather than the powers, all the better, but my a simple, solid supers games is good running on Fate is good enough for me.
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;395481http://mostunreadblogever.blogspot.com/2010/07/tmnt-icons-in-half-shell.html
I just posted Leonardo, Michelangelo, Donatello and Raphael over at my blog. If I feel so inclined, I may continue statting up the "Turtlesverse".
Excellent write-up!
Can we have some bad guys next? Please? :D
Quote from: The Butcher;395553Excellent write-up!
Can we have some bad guys next? Please? :D
In general or Turtleverse? :D
Quote from: The Butcher;395553Excellent write-up!
Can we have some bad guys next? Please? :D
I wasn't going to, but it seems to have gone over really well today...so yeah, gonna start kicking around some bad guys next...=)
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;395481http://mostunreadblogever.blogspot.com/2010/07/tmnt-icons-in-half-shell.html
I just posted Leonardo, Michelangelo, Donatello and Raphael over at my blog. If I feel so inclined, I may continue statting up the "Turtlesverse".
This is a great example of why this game is so much fun. Well done! :)
Quote from: Zachary The First;395599This is a great example of why this game is so much fun. Well done! :)
Incidentally, that was also my first go at using the "Team Rules" (which is why everyone's Determination is one point lower than it otherwise would be).
Man, I hope I get run a pickup game at Gen Con of this!
I'm aiming for next week with this, but do to popular demand, I'll be doing Shredder, Hun, Bebop and Rocksteady next week and then April O'Neil, Splinter, Casey Jones and maaaaaybe Krang the following week.
So I got my copy of Icons today. I'd heard it was similar to TSR Marvel Super Heroes (which is no bad thing), but I had not idea if would be this similar! Stuns, Slams, even the Leadership talent feeding into the team karma pool.
So far it looks good, very clear and sound approach. It probably helps I'm familiar with both Fate and MSH, but seems like something I could get comfortable. Even the "players only roll" which I've used in my onw homebrew FUDGE games.
Of course you don;t really know until you actually play it, and that migth be a while yet as our Slipstream game is going very well.
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;395611I'm aiming for next week with this, but do to popular demand, I'll be doing Shredder, Hun, Bebop and Rocksteady next week and then April O'Neil, Splinter, Casey Jones and maaaaaybe Krang the following week.
:hatsoff:
So why didn't Kenson do this for M&M?
Quote from: One Horse Town;396504So why didn't Kenson do this for M&M?
Because Green Ronin didn't want to alienate their fanbase, I'm assuming.
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;396505Because Green Ronin didn't want to alienate their fanbase, I'm assuming.
I'm not sure what you mean. He was there from the beginning.
Quote from: One Horse Town;396506I'm not sure what you mean. He was there from the beginning.
I think Tommy means to say that the M&M fanbase wants its crunchy, fiddly d20-based game, rather than ICONS' FATE-derived and relatively rules-light engine.
Quote from: The Butcher;396507I think Tommy means to say that the M&M fanbase wants its crunchy, fiddly d20-based game, rather than ICONS' FATE-derived and relatively rules-light engine.
There was no crunchy, fiddly M&M before Kenson.
Therefore, why now?
Quote from: One Horse Town;396508There was no crunchy, fiddly M&M before Kenson.
Therefore, why now?
Chris Pramas approached him specifically to make a d20 fueled supers game, as noted in the M&M foreword.
Giving them ICONS would have been, well, the exact opposite.
And as he says in the ICONS book: He likes to play around with systems. He's not a One True Way kinda guy. He had the idea to do something different, and then the opportunity to see it through.
Quote from: The Butcher;396502:hatsoff:
http://mostunreadblogever.blogspot.com/2010/07/tmnt-thursdays-shredder-and-his.html
Shredder, Hun, Bebop and Rocksteady!
A combat play-test. Character created with the random generation program.
Hero: Microman (Toby Longstreet)
================================
Prowess 6
Coordination 3
Strength 6
Intellect 5
Awareness 6
Willpower 4
Stamina 10
Determination 2
Specialties
Science Expert (Biology)
Medicine
Powers
Wall Crawling 5
Shrinking 6
Mental Blast 3
Alteration Ray 4 (Shrinking Ray)
Qualities
Connections : The Universtiy
Motivation : Pushing the frontiers of science
Identity : Joker
Motivation : Likes to win
Challenges
Personal : Hates to lose
Personal : Feels underappreciated
Point Total 51
Villian: Plague Flea (Reggie Macovski)
=============================
Prowess 5
Coordination 4
Strength 5
Intellect 5
Awareness 6
Willpower 5
Stamina 10
Determination *
Specialties
Stealth Expert
Acrobatics Expert
Powers
Swinging 3
Life Drain 6
Qualities
Catchphrase : Tastey human!
Challenges
Weakness : Hunger Frenzy
Personal : Coward
Point Total 44
Setting the Scene
=================
One day, Dr Longstreet is working late at the University lab, unaware that the Plague Flea as crept through stealthily through the skylight.
Action
======
Microman makes an Awareness roll to notice the Plague Flea. The base difficulty is Plague Flea's Coordination 4 + his Stealth of 2. Additonally because Microman is engrossed in his work I add a further +1 modifier.
Effort: 6 (M's Awareness) + 4 (d6-d6) = 11
Effect = 10 (Effort) - 7 (P's Coordination + Stealth +1 ) = 3 (Major Success).
Microman, without turning says "I would not do that if I were you. Feeding so close to bedtime might give you nightmares."
Note: Wasting the advantage of having spotted Plague Flea to make wisecrack takes us into Determination reward for Challenge territory. It's not a clear-cut case and looking at the character sheet "Joker" is under Qualities rather than Challenges, but that shouldn't matter. I'd give it.
New Round:
Microman shrinks down as Plague Flee leaps for him to Life Drain. Microman gains +2 to his defence, the Plague Fleas' attack is a Prowess Attack at -1 for moving.
That is the difficulty.
Microman adds +2 for size to is Prowess of 8 feeling pretty confident. He roll -5 (1 -6).
Effort: 8 (M's P +2) + -5 (d6-d6) = 3
Effect: 3 (Effort) - 4 (P's Prowess - 1 for moving) = -1 (Failure)
Unlikely thoug it was, Plague Flea get's his Life Drain attack in. Microman's Stamina is reduced from 10 to 4. Plage Flea does not gain any Stamina however becasue he is at full Stamina already.
New Round:
Mircoman is going to simply punch. Plague Flea will try Life Drain again.
Effort: 6 (M's Prowess) + 2 (d6-d6) = 8
Effect: 8 (Effort) - 5 (P's Prowess) = 3 (Major Success, with possibility of Slam).
The Damage Level is 6 (M's Strenght). Plague Flea has no armour so he takes it all.
The Damage Level is also greater than Plauge Flea Strength, so Plague Flea to slammed out of close combat range.
New Round:
Plague Flea must spent his action getting up. Mircoman decides to charge him with full might of his 3 inches of height for comic effect.
Effort: 6 (M's Strenght) - 2 (d6-d6) = 4
Effect: 4 (Effort) - 4 (P's Prowess -1 becasue he is getting up = 0 (Moderate Success)
Plague Flea takes 6 more damge and is knocked out.
And another combat example.
Prospero The Trickster vs Kontrol
================================
Hero: Prospero (Prospero Veneziano)
==============================
Prowess 6
Coordination 7
Strength 4
Intellect 3
Awareness 2
Willpower 6
Stamina 10
Determination 3
Specialties
Occult Master
Martial Arts
Mental Resistance
Sleight of Hand
Powers
Wizardry 7 ( 6 Magic (Willpower) +1 for Occult)
Binding
Blast
Qualities
Motivation : Protect the weak
Epithet : The Trickster
Connections : The Maigc Court
Catchphrase: "I invoke the Power of the Prince of Miracles!"
Challenges
Personal : Vanity
Enemy : The Dark Legion
Point Total 40
Villain: Kontrol
===============
Prowess 4
Coordination 6
Strength 5
Intellect 4
Awareness 7
Willpower 9
Stamina 14
Determination *
Specialties
Powers
Animation 6
Animal Control 4 (Insects)
Paralysis 4
Qualities
Motivation : Gaining Personal power
Challenges
Personal : Control Freak
Point Total 49
Setting the Scene
=================
Late one night Propero is alerted by the Magic Court that Kontrol is attempting to steal a powerful magical device on display in the Metropolitan Museum.
Prospero has his chauffeur drive him to the museum (note: "chaffueur" should probably be added as a Quality somewhere). Once there Prospero uses a DP to cast Phasing.Intangible he slips into the museum and begins the search for Kontrol.
Action
=====
I'll allow Kontrol a chance to notice Prospero's presence.Normally this would be a Stealth roll for Prospero but as he is Phasing, this hardly seems to matter. Prospero is intangible, he doesn't make any noise as he walks nor can he knock things over even if he wanted to. So it's seems to be more a question if Kontrol get's lucky rather than an opposed skill test. I choose an arbitrary difficulty number, and as it would seem punitive to set it any lower than Prospero's Coordination of 7, I'll set the difficulty to 8.
Kontrol Awareness is 7, so his test fails as NPCs do not roll. Propero has the jump on him.
The rules state you can only make mental attacks while phased. It is questionable whether a magic is more of a mental or physical attack. But overall it would seem way overpowered to allow people to cast spells while phased I would have to rule that Prospero would have to drop the phasing spell before attacking. For future refence, Phasing and Mental Blast seems like the kind of game breaking combo I am not sure shold be allowed.
Prospero casts a Binding spell. He rolls Coordination 7 +2 for surprie vs Kontorl Coordination 6.
Effort: 7 (P's Coordination) -1 (d6-d6) +2 (for surprise) = 8
Effect: 8 (Effort) - 6 (K's Coordination) = +2 (Moderate Success - but the marging of of success in this case doesn't seem to matter).
Next Propero has to make a Wrestling roll for his Binding power.His Wizardry level acting as the Strength of the Spell vs Kontrols Strenght. Prospero decides for use a DP for a Determined Effort to secure a Major Success using his Catchphrase Quality.
Effort = 7 (Ps Wizardry) + -1 (d6-d6) = 6
Target is Kontrol's Strength 5
Effect is 6 (Effort) -5 (K's Strength) = 1 (Moderate Success)
To make it a major Succees Prospero pays 1 DP which gives him 2 more Level of Success.
Instead of trying to break free Kontrol will use his animate power on a marble statue. The statue will make its attack next panel (the rules aren't clear but if it were a comic it would be a differenet panel).
New Round
Prospero will use his complete hold to squeeze full Strength damage on Kontrol.
Kontrol takes 7 (P's Wizardry) points damage.
It is not clear if that counts as Prospero's action for the turn (In MSH the damage from a hold was free) but it feels like it should be.
Meanwhile the statue walks up to Prospeero and whacks him. Its is at -1 for moving.
Effort: 6 (P's Prowess) + 0 (d6+d6) = 6
Effect: 6 (Effort) - 6 (K's Animate) = 0 (Moderate Success)
Meanwhile Kontrol will try to break the hold.
Effort: 7 (P's Wizadry) 7 + -2 (d6-d6) = 5
Effect: 5 (Effort) - 5 (K's Strength) = 0 (Moderate Success)
The Kontrol stays bound.
New Round
Next round Propspero can finish off. One assumes without Kontrol KO, the statue reverts to just being a statue. Prospero put the stolen back in place, ties up Kontrol,triggers the museum alarm then use his last DP to cast Phasing again to leave the museum.
Quote from: Soylent Green;396909Hero: Prospero (Prospero Veneziano)
I was looking for a sorcerous super's name. I love this! *YOINK*
:D
Quote from: The Butcher;397003I was looking for a sorcerous super's name. I love this! *YOINK*
:D
Your welcome :-) That's the funny thing, the names and concepts just came so naturally after I rolled up the characters, random though they were.
Been playing ICONS for a few weeks now and I'm loving it for fast play. I've noticed that sometimes it becomes a bit overpowered (HA!) when trying to gauge success/failure. It takes a cool hand as a GM to call if giving max successs on all situations. (ie. PC's beating the difficulty by a lot and over doing things, etc.) But beyond this low fidelity, combat is really fast. Really fast.
My FLGS has a copy of ICONS and I picked it up and seriously considered buying it. When I saw it was based on FATE I put it back down.
I guess for my superhero fix I will wait for M&M 3 to be published
Quote from: Daedalus;397175My FLGS has a copy of ICONS and I picked it up and seriously considered buying it. When I saw it was based on FATE I put it back down.
I guess for my superhero fix I will wait for M&M 3 to be published
It's not really based on FATE, it has a few items stolen from it, but its about like saying FATE is too related to AD&D to pick it up.
Quote from: Silverlion;397178It's not really based on FATE, it has a few items stolen from it, but its about like saying FATE is too related to AD&D to pick it up.
This.
And honestly, after reading the M&M 3 rules as they appear in DC Adventures, there's a REAL good chance you were never ICONS target audience, if that's what you're holding out for, Daedalus.
Really, it's Marvel Classic, just simplified and with player defined Advantages and Disadvantages added in.
I ran my first Icons session yesterday.
Like the guys said, it's much more Marvel Super Heroes (FASERIP) than Fate. In fact it is shamelessly like MSH, virtually a retro clone.
It think it improves on MSH in a few important areas.
The powers in Icon are better packaged which is really important if you are going to roll for them randomly. For instance instead of just having "Water Breathing" as a power (score!) Icons has Aquatic which is much more rounded.
The basic resolution mechanism in Icons is not as wildly random as it was in MSH. Even a very competent character (Incredible) still has like 30% chance of failing on a routine roll. Without lots of Karma I'm not sure the colour coded charts of MSH would be playable.
MSH, by default has a very flat difficulty scale. In most instance you just need to roll a "Green" to succeed which leads to the common criticism of MSH which is that, all things being equal, it's as just easy to hit Aunt May as it is to hit Spiderman. In Icons variable difficulties are a core part of the action resolution - it's a basic Target Number system.
One the flip side, although I really like games in which the GM is not required to roll dice, I think this is one game in which this is not such a great idea. You have to mentally reverse the equation for Stuns and Slams depending on whether its for a PC or NPC and it leaves you nowhere with NPCs with powers fuelled by Determination Points.
Challenges, as written, are a mess. There is just too much of a grey area between when a challenge in play is truly acting to the detriment of the character and when it is just business as usual. Likewise it can be hard to call when is it a new instance of a Challenge in play or just continuation from the previous scene. Frankly in all the examples (from the published stuff and Actual Play) you can see there is zero consistency in how it's applied, with GM's frequently forgetting about it in the heat of the moment, all of which is made even less consistent by the notion of "temporary Challenges".
Essentially Challenges act as a licence for GM fiat. The thing is, if your group is okay with GM fiat, you don't need a licence, if its wary of GM fiat, this ain't going to wash.
But overall it's good fun. Andd, unlike a lot of new games, Icons seems very tweakable. I think it lends itself to house-ruling and mods in a way that doesn't break the rest of the game. So if you wanted the GM to roll for NPCs, replace Stamina damage with Fate Stress Tracks or get rid of Retcon use of Determination Points and the core game would still hang together nicely.
Quote from: Soylent Green;397213The basic resolution mechanism in Icons is not as wildly random as it was in MSH. Even a very competent character (Incredible) still has like 30% chance of failing on a routine roll. Without lots of Karma I'm not sure the colour coded charts of MSH would be playable.
MSH, by default has a very flat difficulty scale. In most instance you just need to roll a "Green" to succeed which leads to the common criticism of MSH which is that, all things being equal, it's as just easy to hit Aunt May as it is to hit Spiderman. In Icons variable difficulties are a core part of the action resolution - it's a basic Target Number system.
My problem with that is Determination is even stingier than Karma as written, without taking challenges. It kinda hosed the advantage of "less" random with the "less karma/determination" a bit. Sure you'll rolls will be more consistent, but that means if you fail anyway, there is less of a wild shot to get out there as well.
I'd probably done a more traditional 2d6 system, but that's me.
Quote from: Silverlion;397216My problem with that is Determination is even stingier than Karma as written, without taking challenges. It kinda hosed the advantage of "less" random with the "less karma/determination" a bit. Sure you'll rolls will be more consistent, but that means if you fail anyway, there is less of a wild shot to get out there as well.
I'd probably done a more traditional 2d6 system, but that's me.
Yeah I worried about the low amount of Determination too particularly as I don't consider the Challenge mechanics all that sound. We were lucky because both players rolled character with 3 starting DPs.
I had considered house-ruling so that the Challegnes just become roleplaying background information but with not mechanical ties and instead give the players 2 extra starting DPs. They chose to go for the other option of self-compels I outlined above. Predictably one player was more players was more brazen about playing up his Challenges to gain DPs than the other. It's just not a good mechanic.
As for dice, actually I very tempted to go back to FUDGE dice.
But the important thing is the game itself was very good, the characters really clicked and there was a really good vibe. We played half of the introductionary scenario at the back of the book, which I though might suck but actually it makes for a good, flexible framework to embelish on.
Another mad idea that had occurred to me is to double the amount of DPs, but also double the cost for certain things (for instance pusing DP to power Wizardry and possibly for Retcons). That way you get more DPs to play without necessarily breaking the game.
But I've not really though this through. There is something about the game that makes it (in appearance at least) easy to tinker with. But I'm going to try to play it as writtne a bit longer to make sure I really understnad what's under the hood.
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April O'Neil, Splinter, Baxter Stockman and Krang!
Plan for next week is Casey Jones, Leatherhead, Slash and The Rat King...
From all I've seen it looks to be very much FATE, only a particularly old-school orthodox kind of version of FATE.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;397556From all I've seen it looks to be very much FATE, only a particularly old-school orthodox kind of version of FATE.
RPGPundit
That's the best assesment of it I can give too.