Quote from: BlackhandWe don't need either Dark Heresy or Warhammer 40k's background to be 'fixed'.

Well other people do apparently feel it needs to be fixed for their game. Are you really as outraged as your choice of words indicate? It makes it quite difficult to take what you say seriously.

QuoteMaybe you just mean the addition of the 4 published greater Chaos gods, which was all actually intended to be in the original manual, they just didn't have space for all of it.  Hence two Realm of Chaos books.

Well as both RoC books also had substantial material for WHB and WHFRP, the impression I got was not that they were purely expansions for WH40k but as a means to tie together the franchise. Do you have a reference for their original intent? I mean they had a whole chapter on the warp in the original game including vampires and other beasties and not one mention of chaos. I agree that this was probably in their minds if WH40k became a success but regardless I preferred the flavour of the original Rogue Trader. Not that the RoC books weren't cool as backstory but its the continued emphasis on chaos that has bored me

QuoteWe don't need an overbearing GM 'rper' to 'interpret' the setting for us because, as a rule, we have a better grip on it than you do.

In future there shall be no discussion of converting wargame settings to rokleplaying on this roleplaying site or indeed any alternation of established canon?

QuoteIf the Chaos powers are too 'banal' for you, you're missing the point and should play Star Wars instead. 40k isn't space opera, it's gothic horror.

I would say it has elements of both. Even without the appareance of chaos powers it is possible to run a gothic horror game. It is a vast universe but that the chaos powers do get a bit tiresome. I suppose one fix would be to inject a bit more mystery into them and some of the fiction, particularly Dan Abnett's stuff does a good job of this. Alternatively give them a rest, focus on the other stuff.

QuoteYou could even play in one of the [Star Wars] eras where they have tons of backflipping Jedi with tiny, personal FTL craft that can jaunt around the universe however and whenever they want.

If you do, I want to play one of the Hutts as a Jedi, or better yet one of those flittering flapping things that are immune to the Force - whatever Watto was.  As a Jedi.

Those both sound great. A Hutt Jedi would be a lot of fun. I'm imagining it now, how he was rejected by his family for his Lightist ways and has to balance the rage he feels at having everyone react to him with fear and disgust because he is a Hutt.

Quote from: NiallSWell other people do apparently feel it needs to be fixed for their game. Are you really as outraged as your choice of words indicate? It makes it quite difficult to take what you say seriously.

Yes. :bible:

Quote from: NiallSWell as both RoC books also had substantial material for WHB and WHFRP, the impression I got was not that they were purely expansions for WH40k but as a means to tie together the franchise. Do you have a reference for their original intent? I mean they had a whole chapter on the warp in the original game including vampires and other beasties and not one mention of chaos. I agree that this was probably in their minds if WH40k became a success but regardless I preferred the flavour of the original Rogue Trader. Not that the RoC books weren't cool as backstory but its the continued emphasis on chaos that has bored me

I don't have the specific article right here, but I can tell you where to find it...WD 330, September 2007, or around there.  Look for the Chaos Space Marine cover, heralding the newest version of the 'dex - but I believe it to be that specific issue (sorry all WD from the previous 10 years are yet in storage pending completion of my new game room - damned carpenters don't respect).  Anyway, therein, Jerv and Alan politely explains how Chaos is integral to WH40k and chart it's evolution through the editions.

Quote from: NiallSIn future there shall be no discussion of converting wargame settings to rokleplaying on this roleplaying site or indeed any alternation of established canon?

Good. :rtfm:

Quote from: NiallSI would say it has elements of both. Even without the appareance of chaos powers it is possible to run a gothic horror game. It is a vast universe but that the chaos powers do get a bit tiresome. I suppose one fix would be to inject a bit more mystery into them and some of the fiction, particularly Dan Abnett's stuff does a good job of this. Alternatively give them a rest, focus on the other stuff.

Would that man could just will the Chaos gods out of existence.  That would be an ideal world, where men could travel the stars in peace.  :fu2:

Quote from: NiallSThose both sound great. A Hutt Jedi would be a lot of fun. I'm imagining it now, how he was rejected by his family for his Lightist ways and has to balance the rage he feels at having everyone react to him with fear and disgust because he is a Hutt.

I was joking.  :hurrr:

Am I right in thinking that there's no ignore lists on this board? Because I've found the perfect candidate for one...

Put a "Good Guy" faction in there of some kind.

 Some group that re-discovered this strange concept of Democracy and is getting Humans and Aliens to work together as part of integrated paramilitary groups - THAT might get me interested in irt as an RPG setting

Some group that confuses the hell out of the Terran Empire.

- Ed C.

That kind of group exists Koltar, it's just there's one problem to your thinking.

That group would be viciously destroyed by the Imperium as soon as it's heresy was discovered.  This is actually a major theme.

Viciously and unmercifully.  In fact, that sounds like the basis for a Dark Heresy adventure.

There are no good guys in 40k.  That's a big thing about the setting - there just isn't any room for this, I mean, once the Imperium discovers the alien-worshippers.  In the Imperium, it's a crime punishable by death to even speak to Xenos.  Or possess objects of their artifice.

This has been explored with the Tau Empire - humans and xenos working together for a 'greater good'.

Then being smashed by the bigoted and ignorant Imperium.  This is a major theme of the setting.  I think you should all read some of the 40k material that isn't published directly for Dark Heresy, which Dark Heresy assumes you already own.

Also, just FYI, in 40k it's called the Imperium.  The Empire is WHFB.

Olive there is an ignore list and you're welcome to put me on it.

Quote from: KoltarSome group that re-discovered this strange concept of Democracy and is getting Humans and Aliens to work together as part of integrated paramilitary groups - THAT might get me interested in irt as an RPG setting

Don't know about "good guys"....but I wouldn't mind running something like this. Perhaps an Imperial Guard unit discovers a strange relic on an abadoned world gets corrupted by it and then wanders of the reservation. Perhaps they are the founding members of a cult of some kind. Kind of like the Wild Bunch meets Life of Brian.

Regards,
David R

The Acolytes could be sent after this dangerous artifact cult, which has managed to capture a warp-capable ship and subjected the Navigator of that ship to the same artifact-an encounter which either led to alien / daemonic possession or even fouler corruption-heresy among the Navis Nobilite.

All within setting, without any far fetched notions like "peace" or "good guys".

I mean, there are 'good' guys but as a rule, Man hates Xenos with psychotic religious zeal.

Chaos wasn't quite so blatant and available and out there or as big a factor in Rogue Trader. Mutation wasn't considered the result of Chaos Taint and 5% of newborns had some form of mutation, mutants were only killed out of hand on primitive worlds.

Warp entities weren't quite what they later became, they were more mysterious and not really the chaos forces we know and love, they were more like faustian devils if anything.

The older version of 40K was 'kinder' and 'gentler' in many ways, abhumans - even beastmen - appeared alongside human troops far more readily and even alliances with eldar were implied.

All things considered I think Rogue Trader would have made a far better starting point for the line, Rogue Traders can and will work with anyone, will gather strange allies and will work things to their advantage, it's probably the most open and accepting setup of the potential ones, other than Tau space.

Okay maybe not "Good Guys"  - but a lot more sympathetic than all those other groups and factions in that universe.
 At the store we have TWO night/days a week when the place is full of WARHAMMER40K players.

I have looked up the various groups and factions on wikipedia and other places. If David R. or someone like him ran an RPG close to the idea I suggested - then I might be interested in being an RPG player in that kind of setting.


- Ed C.

Quote from: KoltarOkay maybe not "Good Guys"  - but a lot more sympathetic than all those other groups and factions in that universe.

Tweak the Tau. FOR THE GREATER GOOD isn't very democratic (cue Tau Communist Posters), but the Tau are less GRIMDARK than the other major factions. Wouldn't even have to play a Tau.

Rather enjoying the less NSFW aspects of /tg/'s take on WH40K. Still GRIMDARK but not so '80s metal 13 year old male 24-7. Still silly, just more variety. Since the "worksafe" /tg/ isn't (don't go there), link to a (more) SFW thread on Macha over at TBP.

With characters like 'lil E (the Emperor reborn as a child, who knows the task ahead of him but for now is enjoying being a kid again) there's some hope, light and smiles to contrast the GRIMDARK future. :keke:
The Titan Playground
Tea for Two

Edit: And with that, it's a nice sunny day outside, wtf am I doing posting online. l8r