I kept expecting the DM to roll a random encounter or something, but he wouldn't initiate anything in lieu of the players doing something. After 20 or 30 minutes of random talking, I just gave up and exited the video. It was just a conversation about a game that wasn't actually in motion.
Now, imagine that being someone's initial exposure to D&D. Like an episode of Seinfeld, it was a game about nothing; because nobody was actually playing the game.
Remembering, rehashing, discussing, planning, whatever; but no actual gameplay.
As a DM, how would you handle something like that?
Are the players actually engaged and enjoying themselves? Then I let them do their thing.
Quote from: Jam The MF on April 27, 2021, 12:59:52 AM
I kept expecting the DM to roll a random encounter or something, but he wouldn't initiate anything in lieu of the players doing something. After 20 or 30 minutes of random talking, I just gave up and exited the video. It was just a conversation about a game that wasn't actually in motion.
Now, imagine that being someone's initial exposure to D&D. Like an episode of Seinfeld, it was a game about nothing; because nobody was actually playing the game.
Remembering, rehashing, discussing, planning, whatever; but no actual gameplay.
As a DM, how would you handle something like that?
Have everyone roll initiative.
In media res
Quote from: Jam The MF on April 27, 2021, 12:59:52 AM
I kept expecting the DM to roll a random encounter or something, but he wouldn't initiate anything in lieu of the players doing something. After 20 or 30 minutes of random talking, I just gave up and exited the video. It was just a conversation about a game that wasn't actually in motion.
Now, imagine that being someone's initial exposure to D&D. Like an episode of Seinfeld, it was a game about nothing; because nobody was actually playing the game.
Remembering, rehashing, discussing, planning, whatever; but no actual gameplay.
As a DM, how would you handle something like that?
not being a fucking spectator sport
Quote from: Jam The MF on April 27, 2021, 12:59:52 AM
As a DM, how would you handle something like that?
NINJAS ATTACK!!!
Quote from: jeff37923 on April 27, 2021, 01:58:47 AM
Quote from: Jam The MF on April 27, 2021, 12:59:52 AM
I kept expecting the DM to roll a random encounter or something, but he wouldn't initiate anything in lieu of the players doing something. After 20 or 30 minutes of random talking, I just gave up and exited the video. It was just a conversation about a game that wasn't actually in motion.
Now, imagine that being someone's initial exposure to D&D. Like an episode of Seinfeld, it was a game about nothing; because nobody was actually playing the game.
Remembering, rehashing, discussing, planning, whatever; but no actual gameplay.
As a DM, how would you handle something like that?
Have everyone roll initiative.
In media res
I thought of having them roll initiative; but then I thought it would be better to have them make a perception check. If they fail the perception check, they are caught by surprise.
Quote from: Jam The MF on April 27, 2021, 12:59:52 AM
.......It was just a conversation about a game that wasn't actually in motion........Remembering, rehashing, discussing, planning, whatever; but no actual gameplay.
Pretty standard Storyteller system gaming then. :(
Quote from: Jam The MF on April 27, 2021, 12:59:52 AM
I kept expecting the DM to roll a random encounter or something, but he wouldn't initiate anything in lieu of the players doing something. After 20 or 30 minutes of random talking, I just gave up and exited the video. It was just a conversation about a game that wasn't actually in motion.
Now, imagine that being someone's initial exposure to D&D. Like an episode of Seinfeld, it was a game about nothing; because nobody was actually playing the game.
Remembering, rehashing, discussing, planning, whatever; but no actual gameplay.
As a DM, how would you handle something like that?
Wasn't there an old joke about the typical RPG session having 10 minutes of exciting fun spread out over four hours of play?
Quote from: jeff37923 on April 27, 2021, 01:58:47 AM
Have everyone roll initiative.
In media res
Just play "We Will Remember Them" for World War Cthulhu. It is about a British Commando team doing a mission behind enemy lines in occupied Norway. The adventure starts with the mission only partially completed, but with the characters stranded on a mountain road after they crashed their truck. The players start the game literally half-way through the mission. What happened up to that point is actually played
in flashbacks that go way back to their training. The
"In Media Res" is strong in this one.
The ending, BTW, is one of the biggest mindfucks ever. When I ran it, my players made the mistake of becoming attached to their soldier characters. Never do that in CoC... :D
What online game was it? Just some gamers recording a session? I know we have some rules when we play that encourage game play, such as a timer for 50 minutes so that we take a 10-15 minute break for bullshitting, socializing, checking phones (I have a no phones at the table policy if I am GM'ing). I find we keep the game moving much better that way and still get to socialize. We always have a 3-4 hour session so the game moves along, we all get to talk and socialize and snack, and it feels like progress is made. I would think if people were going to film a session they would have some guidelines put down before they started to keep the game rolling and maybe have an intermission break in the middle for people to pee, eat, etc. Games are social, and often personal to the people playing together and that will not translate terribly well to film documentation if its all mushed together as a typical game session would be.
Can't speak for the OP, but what he says seems to me to pretty well describe the hour or so of Critical Role I watched before giving up.
The one or two other times I watched a little of people playing D&D online it seemed largely the same.
Lots of people captured by the sheer novelty of playing a character and talking in funny voices - usually in an inn, with very little happening.
They may well be having fun, but it wouldn't fly with my jaded players.
My games usually follow sessions of planning followed by sessions of execution. So I find this idea that if your not killing something ever 15 seconds then its a waste, kinda insulting.
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on April 27, 2021, 08:25:35 PM
My games usually follow sessions of planning followed by sessions of execution. So I find this idea that if your not killing something ever 15 seconds then its a waste, kinda insulting.
Combat isn't the whole game; but after a few minutes of rehash, something needs to happen or at least be attempted. Otherwise you're talking about games, without actually playing them. My first DM wouldn't let that mess drag on. Either the PCs do something, or the DM does something. Something is about to happen. The DM's time is being wasted.
"Demogorgon tires of your foolish bickering!!!"
Humm. I think stuff can be unbearably boring to watch, while fun and enjoyable for the participants. I'm certainly not going to resent my players taking 15 minutes to discuss/plan, long as their PCs are in a safe location. If they're in the dungeon I'll probably roll a wandering monster check.
I recorded one of my Albedo sessions at GenCon and the first 20 or so min were the PCs mostly fraternizing and getting a handle on the situation at hand. After that things pick up as they got into the main action and dealt with it.
From experience often the first half-hour of a session, unless its picking up in the middle of action after a pause, will be alot of talking and puttering around.
Pretty much the first HOUR of playing Keep on the Borderlands was just talking our way into the keep. Then getting some directions, then talking to the locals to get a handle on the situation, then talking to people who might be able to assist. AND doing a little shopping before heading out and meandering across the countryside instead of heading off to the caves.
THEN the action started.
Even moreso when I was DMing Darkness Gathering campaign. The players spent alot of time just talking to people. But usually once that was out of the way things kicked into gear.
On the flip side GMing Star Frontiers things kicked off pretty quick. The PCs barely got introductions done before all hell broke loose.
I think it really depends on the players and DM. Some like to interact with the world and others just want to bash things. The type of adventure can impact too. A Call of Cthulhu or Albedo session can be mostly or even all just talking to people and no action. Or the action only comes near the end.
Very YMMV.
Quote from: Jam The MF on April 27, 2021, 12:59:52 AM
I kept expecting the DM to roll a random encounter or something, but he wouldn't initiate anything in lieu of the players doing something. After 20 or 30 minutes of random talking, I just gave up and exited the video. It was just a conversation about a game that wasn't actually in motion.
Now, imagine that being someone's initial exposure to D&D. Like an episode of Seinfeld, it was a game about nothing; because nobody was actually playing the game.
Remembering, rehashing, discussing, planning, whatever; but no actual gameplay.
As a DM, how would you handle something like that?
Most players don't know how or want to role-play. Self-aware players want to know. They see things are horribly wrong at most game tables, and don't get themselves trapped in them.
Quote from: HappyDaze on April 27, 2021, 06:37:34 AMWasn't there an old joke about the typical RPG session having 10 minutes of exciting fun spread out over four hours of play?
I thought that was supposed to be the typical Wagner opera.
Quote from: Premier on May 01, 2021, 10:14:10 AM
Quote from: HappyDaze on April 27, 2021, 06:37:34 AMWasn't there an old joke about the typical RPG session having 10 minutes of exciting fun spread out over four hours of play?
I thought that was supposed to be the typical Wagner opera.
There is a difference? 8)
Quote from: S'mon on April 28, 2021, 03:13:55 AM
Humm. I think stuff can be unbearably boring to watch, while fun and enjoyable for the participants.
This is why you should never film you and your spouse having sex.
QuoteCombat isn't the whole game; but after a few minutes of rehash, something needs to happen or at least be attempted. Otherwise you're talking about games, without actually playing them.
If the Players discuss things in-world as their characters then SOMETHING IS HAPPENING, and freeform fireside chat are definitely part of game. That's why we call it RP-G and not just Tactical Skirmish RPG as pesky Forged in the Dark demons would like to see D&D and consortes.
Quote from: Jam The MF on April 27, 2021, 12:59:52 AM
I kept expecting the DM to roll a random encounter or something, but he wouldn't initiate anything in lieu of the players doing something. After 20 or 30 minutes of random talking, I just gave up and exited the video. It was just a conversation about a game that wasn't actually in motion.
Now, imagine that being someone's initial exposure to D&D. Like an episode of Seinfeld, it was a game about nothing; because nobody was actually playing the game.
Remembering, rehashing, discussing, planning, whatever; but no actual gameplay.
As a DM, how would you handle something like that?
But in an episode of Seinfeld, that "nothing" is actually something. What you watched was paint drying - boring and lame. I've had the same experiences. It's painful to watch. Even the high production value shows are fairly bad.
Quote from: Wrath of God on May 03, 2021, 11:39:10 AM
.......If the Players discuss things in-world as their characters then SOMETHING IS HAPPENING, and freeform fireside chat are definitely part of game.......
Yeah, the fucking boring part.
QuoteYeah, the fucking boring part.
Definitely disagree. Team bickering is basically much more interesting thank killing dragons and saving princesses :P
Team bickering is why Gygax invented the wandering monster check. A lot of GMs, especially the ones filming their games, don't understand the importance of keeping things moving.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on May 04, 2021, 06:32:42 PM
Team bickering is why Gygax invented the wandering monster check. A lot of GMs, especially the ones filming their games, don't understand the importance of keeping things moving.
There it is. Someone who understands.
Nearly all recorded games are Mother, May I sessions.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on May 05, 2021, 10:48:35 PM
Nearly all recorded games are Mother, May I sessions.
Given time you storygamers will put an end to that Im sure. Along with those nasty hated RPGs.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on May 05, 2021, 10:48:35 PM
Nearly all recorded games are Mother, May I sessions.
Amusing how someone calling themselves a "role-playing purist" wants more rules to interfere with a session. Storygaming is a misnomer, if what they want is for everything to have mechanics.
Only the players can tell the story, oops, sorry, The Fiction...
The DM, if one is even allowed, it just a leashed vend bot.
Quote from: Omega on May 06, 2021, 07:04:59 PM
Only the players can tell the story, oops, sorry, The Fiction...
The DM, if one is even allowed, it just a leashed vend bot.
Are you suggesting that the DM is just there to "service" the players?
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on May 05, 2021, 10:48:35 PMNearly all recorded games are Mother, May I sessions.
Not ours! We had 30-40 minutes of non-game blather. The shooting starts about 45' in - Bill foils a robbery. It's a bit slow because I was explaining things for the audience to show how the game works and the mindset a player or referee need for it.