I'm curious to how many people angry at this development actually support 5e monetarily still?

Quote from: tenbones on November 23, 2020, 12:24:32 PM
I'm curious to how many people angry at this development actually support 5e monetarily still?

This presumes I ever monetarily supported them. I started my developing my own system specifically in reaction to 5e and the few times I ever experienced 5e I used a friend's books.

*Shrug* I bought one 5E game product and one accessory, and am looking to sell the game product off. (Anyone want a gently used copy of Curse of Strahd, 1st printing?) Right now, I'm leaning towards smaller companies and swinging between buying OSR, BRP, and Savage Worlds stuff.

I wonder if we can convince them Class is classist.

I bought the 5E Essentials set, read through half the character creation section, saw it was more of the same fiddly nonsense that had made me drop D&D during the 3.5 era, and promptly resold it.  I'd consider getting back on board if they ever got back to basics while bringing in some more consistency and polish. But several OSR games have already accomplished that for me, so it'll be a tough sell.

For the record - when 5e dropped, I bought several copies of the PHB, DMG and MM, both for my personal use, a set for reference in some designwork I was doing - and sets for gifts.

So I'm not trying to shit on anyone for having done so in the past. However once WotC went beyond my tolerance levels, I did give all my 5e stuff away. I do find it interesting (purely intellectually) that a lot of people still consume 5e in various forms, while being castigated broadly by developers of WotC who put their stamp of approval on politically motivated material in their works which, to me, has helped ruin the brand.

This is why *none* of these videos Pundit puts out surprises me. I enjoy them for the ludicrousness of what they are. But the fact is it will never stop until people stop supporting them.

See: DC Comics, Marvel Comics and the forthcoming year.

I do get that it's fun to take a hot steamer on the latest "controversy" and I'm all on board when the mood suits me. But when it comes to my gold-expenditure, I take pause. Because at the end of the day, this is their ultimate lifeline. And I wonder if I'm alone in this sentiment? I'm not recruiting or anything, this is purely my own opinion borne not just of WotC - but of all of pop-culture.

I'm simply not going to support these agendas - I've crossed out several major pastimes from companies that have crossed such lines for me. And I'm a *whale* when it comes to my hobbies. I'm *all in* they should be courting people like me (how difficult can it be to not be political and reap lots of my cash?) - so I feel good knowing that my resources won't go to these places any longer. There is *zero* assumption on my part any of these companies will change course.

I still GM 5e D&D. I try not to buy SJW-inflected 5e products. Basically anything from when Crawford took control of the game.

Recently I've not bought any WoTC published 5e stuff at all. The last WoTC thing I bought was some Roll20 Tiles about 6-7 months ago.

Sometime between mid-summer and now I went from "no more purchases of 5E stuff" to "not only no purchases but probably not going to run it much, if at all, and am telling both groups why."  I'm not ruling it out entirely, because I've got the core books and a nice campaign built up with it.  I'd hate to let all those players down (20+ in multiple campaigns).  So I expect when we can get together, I'll try to run a few more sessions to end the campaigns on a good note.  After that, I've got better uses of my gaming time.

I'm way past the angry stage on this to where I'm almost completely uninterested in anything they do or say.  5E was always for me a not perfect but good enough game that it was easy to get other people on board with.  But I've never had any trouble starting a game of anything that interested me enough to run it.  The people in my groups will be pretty happy for me to hand them some rules (mine) for free instead of needing to buy something. 

Way to go WotC.  You made me so apathetic about your product that I finally got off my butt and wrote rules that I like better than yours.  Congratulations.

Quote from: tenbones on November 23, 2020, 12:24:32 PM
I'm curious to how many people angry at this development actually support 5e monetarily still?

Ehhh, my group is still playing 5e.  We don't spend much on their products (we prefer ... going a'viking when we get curious as to what the newest class option stuff is) and we run our own adventures.  It'd be nice to be able to use the WotC published adventures, but they are both woke and mostly disjointed garbage.  I've got enough casuals in my group that we won't be moving on anytime soon...

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on November 23, 2020, 02:55:08 PMWay to go WotC.  You made me so apathetic about your product that I finally got off my butt and wrote rules that I like better than yours.  Congratulations.

This has been my condition since TSR circa 1978.

Edit: Not that I was apathetic - but that I thought it could be done better. Modern WotC's take on D&D is like trying to get me excited about some dance-trend on Tik-Tok. "Apathy" would be too strong. I look at it like some trendy thing young kids are into that goes so far under my radar, I just shrug and remember "Well I used to remember when marbles was a thing."... Of course the social media and political stuff in D&D's orbit makes those marbles smell like they came out of someone's asshole.

Quote from: Slambo on November 23, 2020, 01:33:28 PMI wonder if we can convince them Class is classist.

No doubt! If races are racist, classes must be classist.

Quote from: tenbones on November 23, 2020, 12:24:32 PMI'm curious to how many people angry at this development actually support 5e monetarily still?

Zero of my dollars will cross their palms.

BUT...the stupidity of the 800lb retarded gorilla causes trouble far beyond Seattle.

I have always enjoyed and promoted PUBLIC play of RPGs (FLGS game days, local cons, big cons, etc) and my concern is this stupidity will filter its way into public play events via their loyal idiots feeling empowered to "make rules" for everyone's "safety and inclusion".

It's yet another crack in the unity of the hobby community which will only lead to conventions and gatherings that are defined by where you stand in the culture war.

Quote from: tenbones on November 23, 2020, 03:45:23 PMOf course the social media and political stuff in D&D's orbit makes those marbles smell like they came out of someone's asshole.

Quote from: tenbones on November 23, 2020, 12:24:32 PM
I'm curious to how many people angry at this development actually support 5e monetarily still?

Angry is a bit strong.

Disappointed maybe.

Quote from: Shasarak on November 23, 2020, 07:53:03 PM

Quote from: tenbones on November 23, 2020, 12:24:32 PM
I'm curious to how many people angry at this development actually support 5e monetarily still?

Angry is a bit strong.

Disappointed maybe.

I used to be angry. Then I was disappointed. Now I simply don't care.

I was angry because like many of the dumb directions pop-culture has taken (which infects a lot of the stuff we share) it was/is *totally unnecessary* aside from the strife it causes in various circles.

Disappointment came when it became totally clear that beyond the marketing mistakes that all this shit was purely ideological, so much so that those caught in the gravitational well of it even ate their own principles dignity out of financial self-interest in the hopes they could turn it around (and this is a best case scenario I don't really believe).

Not caring happened slowly after I realized that the elements of D&D I do use, and prefer (1e, 2e) are very very much in use. I never stopped using them in 3e. I skipped 4e altogether. And I used them in 5e while I had it. But I still use that material in Savage Worlds. None of the material that's come out is really necessary for me in terms of mechanics (since I think the mechanics are not good). They certainly aren't producing more fluff than the previous editions... so it seemed to be a clear line had been crossed. Emotional ties evaporated and I was truly disconnected from the brand that I'd stood with for decades.

Now it's like a comically sadistic sideshow where I watch Pundit and others parade out the latest outrage from that collective sewer. And the only think irksome about it that does have an impact on me is when I get new players that most of the time got into this hobby via D&D and then I'll have to hear them try to explain to me why it's "so cool!" or regale me with their epic renditions of their favorite "Adventure Path" and how they did it the 2nd or 3rd time... and what is my favorite Adventure Path?

I sip my coffee. Eventually I summon my best Mako-voice

"Boy...Before the time when the Sun set upon 3e, and the earth shook and the rise of the monster of 4e, there was an age undreamed of. It is I, the GM who alone can tell thee of this saga. Let me tell you of the days of high adventure!"

Quote from: Slambo on November 23, 2020, 01:33:28 PM
I wonder if we can convince them Class is classist.

Oh THAT came up at least once in the prior iteration of this disease of stupid back in the 90s.

As said many a time. There is no limit to what they will hallucinate is todays new evil to abolish.

Eventually someone will demand that bows be removed from games because that is appropriation from the poor oppesededed natives. And sure enough one or more companies WILL removed bows and arrows from their games.

I mean we allready have George Washington being censored out of one, possibly more, games in development because he was WACIST! We allready have had at least one game censored because it had fantasy native americans in it because thats appreopiation! We have OA D&D declared WACIST despite it being approved by actual asians. And so on in a never ending death spiral.

Quote from: Slambo on November 23, 2020, 01:33:28 PM
I wonder if we can convince them Class is classist.

When have SJWs ever cared about class?

That's a can of worms they definitely don't want to open!