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I see no reason to play the Pathfinder 2e play test.

Started by Rhedyn, August 03, 2018, 08:33:33 AM

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Psikerlord

I'm not interested in a more complex version of dnd. And if I were, I would go with 13th Age.
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waltshumate

QuoteGame Masters
The role of Game Master comes with the responsibility of ensuring that none of your players violate the game's social contract, especially when playing in a public space. Be on the lookout for behavior that's inappropriate, whether intentional or inadvertent, and pay careful attention to players' body language during gameplay. If you notice a player becoming uncomfortable, you are empowered to pause the game, take it in a new direction, privately check in with your players during or after the session, or take any other action you think is appropriate to move the game toward a fun experience for everyone. That said, you should never let players who are uncomfortable with different identities or experiences derail your game.

WTF

QuotePeople of all identities and experiences have a right to be represented in the game, even if they're not necessarily playing at your table.

Does that include Nazi's ?

Does this mean if I am running a pathfinder game at a Con and someone wants to play a black paraplegic squirrel and I refuse will I be banned  from running Pathfinder at Cons?. Even if not I can still have some asshole pointing to this shit in the rulebook and making demands.  Fucking GM's have enough to do without that shit.  Fuck you Piazo you virtue signalling cunts.  I look  out for my players and make sure no one gets hassled and I don't need some shower of shits libtardsplaining to me.

S'mon

Quote from: waltshumate;1051908Does this mean if I am running a pathfinder game at a Con and someone wants to play a black paraplegic squirrel and I refuse will I be banned  from running Pathfinder at Cons?

No, it's MUCH worse than that. If you are running a Pathfinder game you must include black paraplegic squirrelkin NPCs, whether or not you or the other players want to, because black paraplegic squirrelkin have a right to be represented in the game.
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Armchair Gamer

Quote from: S'mon;1051915No, it's MUCH worse than that. If you are running a Pathfinder game you must include black paraplegic squirrelkin NPCs, whether or not you or the other players want to, because black paraplegic squirrelkin have a right to be represented in the game.

   I look forward to seeing Paizo produce products featuring orthodox Catholics in a positive and sympathetic light, as opposed to the exclusion, erasure and cultural appropriation that has dominated the game since WotC took over. :D

BoxCrayonTales

I used to like Pathfinder before my tastes matured. Now I find the rules too complicated, disorganized and unbalanced, so I switched to Risus. Not just because the rules are very simple: under Risus, fighters compete on even terms with wizards.

jhkim

My brief impression of Pathfinder 2e from a doc that my nephew was reviewing was that it shook things up just enough for there to be noticeable differences, but doesn't make a very compelling change. I don't think it seems worth an edition update.

To be clear, I've rarely played Pathfinder or 3.X and am unlikely to in the near future.

But even with games that I play regularly, I dislike the tendency of new editions to be aimed at the pleasing mainly the hard-core dedicated players.

ThatChrisGuy

Quote from: jhkim;1051957My brief impression of Pathfinder 2e from a doc that my nephew was reviewing was that it shook things up just enough for there to be noticeable differences, but doesn't make a very compelling change. I don't think it seems worth an edition update.

To be clear, I've rarely played Pathfinder or 3.X and am unlikely to in the near future.

But even with games that I play regularly, I dislike the tendency of new editions to be aimed at the pleasing mainly the hard-core dedicated players.

It reminds me of that bit in Spinal Tap: "their appeal is just becoming more selective."
I made a blog: Southern Style GURPS

BoxCrayonTales

The new edition does not fix systemic issues with the system, which are many. It is just as complicated as GURPS, but is nowhere near as organized or systematized.

For example: why are spell casters vastly more flexible than martial classes? why do constructs and undead lack constitution scores and have blanket immunity to mind-affecting effects? Why do we have/need monster types like "monstrous humanoid," "magical beast", "fey" and "outsider"?

tenbones

Quote from: jhkim;1051957But even with games that I play regularly, I dislike the tendency of new editions to be aimed at the pleasing mainly the hard-core dedicated players.

I agree totally. Pathfinder needed a BIG overhaul. I've done a casual review of the game over lunch... it's still not nearly far enough to differentiate itself from 5e. It still has most of the egregious flaws of Pathfinder/3.x

DeadUematsu

#39
The system has potential - the rulebook could have used more editing, the monster math is off, and the ability design is very conservative but I could see interesting developments come into play.

Edit: Ultimately if they support it with Adventure Paths, people will play it because APs work.
 

Franky

The playtest book is not well organized, at least for a playtest document.  Paizo seems to want to test everything at once, at least low level everything, and that will lead to a hot mess.  Unless the Paizo peeps know something I don't. The whole thing seems more release candidate rather than a beta.  

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1051884OK, I have absolutely no interest in PF (which reminds me, I need to sell those copies of Classic Horrors Revisited and Undead Revisited I have), but this provokes morbid curiosity.

Fair enough.  Read it at your own risk.

Spoiler
Gaming is for all
Whether you're a player or a Game Master, participating
in a tabletop roleplaying game involves an inherent social
contract: everyone has gathered to have fun together,
and the table is a safe space for everyone. Everyone has
a right to play and enjoy Pathfinder regardless of their
age, gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, or any other
identities and life experiences. Pathfinder is for everyone,
and Pathfinder games should be as safe, inclusive, and fun
as possible for all.

Players
As a player, it is your responsibility to ensure that you are
not creating or contributing to an environment that makes
any other players feel uncomfortable or unwelcome,
particularly if those players are members of minority
or marginalized communities that haven't always been
welcome or represented in the larger gaming population.
Thus, it's important to consider your character concepts and
roleplaying style and avoid any approach that could cause
harm to another player. A character whose concept and
mannerisms are racist tropes, for example, is exceptionally
harmful and works against the goal of providing fun for
all. A roleplaying style in which a player or character is
constantly interrupting others or treating certain players
or characters with condescension is similarly unacceptable.
Furthermore, standards of respect don't vanish simply
because you're playing a character in a fantasy game.
For example, it's never acceptable to refer to another
person using an offensive term or a slur, and doing so
"in character" is just as bad as doing so directly. If your
character's concept requires you act this way, that's a good
sign your concept is harmful, and you have a responsibility
to change it. Sometimes, you might not realize that your
character concept or roleplaying style is making others
feel unwelcome at the gaming table. If another player
tells you that your character concept or roleplaying style
makes them uncomfortable, you shouldn't argue about
what they should or shouldn't find offensive or say that
what you're doing is common (and therefore okay) among
players or in other media. Instead, you should simply stop
and make sure the game is a fun experience for everyone.
After all, that's what gaming is about!

Game Masters
The role of Game Master comes with the responsibility of
ensuring that none of your players violate the game's social
contract, especially when playing in a public space. Be on
the lookout for behavior that's inappropriate, whether
intentional or inadvertent, and pay careful attention to
players' body language during gameplay. If you notice
a player becoming uncomfortable, you are empowered
to pause the game, take it in a new direction, privately
check in with your players during or after the session, or
take any other action you think is appropriate to move
the game toward a fun experience for everyone. That
said, you should never let players who are uncomfortable
with different identities or experiences derail your game.
People of all identities and experiences have a right to be
represented in the game, even if they're not necessarily
playing at your table.

Otherwise, if a player tells you they're uncomfortable
with something in the game, whether it's content you've
presented as the GM or another player's actions, listen
to them and take steps to ensure they can once again
have fun during your game. If you're preparing written
material and you find the description of a character or a
situation to be inappropriate, you are fully empowered
to change any details as you see fit to best suit your
players. Making sure the game is fun for everyone is your
biggest job!

zagreus

#41
Quote from: sureshot;1051797I never received any impression that as a company they were humble imo. The almost non-apology for the Advanced Class Guide which they slapped together and threw out at Gencon thinking no one would notice that it requires 9 or was it 10 pages of errata for the material to be used properly. When the fans ripped them a new one they seemed defiant and only after the uproar lasted a week did they give a very grudgingly half-assed backhanded apology. After all we should have been happy to receive a book that requires so much errata to use just so Paizo could have had a Gencon release. To one of their own developers going on record stating that anyone who has issues with the Fighter class is someone with a agenda. As for them calling people racist for not liking ancestries it's them pandering to SJW elements who really don't buy gaming. I think the company needs to be humbled and the only way they will learn.

Oh, they are definitely not humble as a company.  Not at all.  I went into one of their message boards once, and I was interested in purchasing one of their adventure paths to run- Iron Gods.  It appealed because of it's mix of cthulu tech and sci-fi elements.  I'm not too interested in the Paizo campaign world, but I was GMing for a group that knew the system and I liked the concept so what the hell.

Anyway, I went on the boards and asked "Do I need all of the individual modules or are some of these just padding to fill out levels?  Because I've seen some of these adventure paths before and it seems like it's just level grinding- which I can do without for my players.  I can just get the pertinent modules and leave out the others- and adjust monster difficulty as needed."  

So- get this- James Jacobs- the creative in charge of the company gives me a lecture stating how all of the stories are intertwined and how this doesn't happen in these adventure paths and is just a perfectly interlocked story arc for the PCs. (Which, if you've read any of Paizo stuff is just bullshit).  Basically, the Paizo message boards are a little nanny state.  It's not "Hey, this is what we think works- but do what you want with it."   Nope, it's "Do this.  This is the right way.  We know best. Buy our stuff."

That's the vibe I get from Paizo, anyway.

Rhedyn

Their boards are just a marketing tool now. It's why they're so dead. 3.X kind'of thrives off forum discussions and op char boards and ranting about class im balance. That's how you keep your enthusiast engaged long enough to teach other people your massive game.

Nuking all that from orbit because you find less than eloquent nerd discussion "problematic" was a great way for them to kill their brand.

I predict Paizo would have started losing customers without 5e. They are actively hostile to enthusiast that are not critical about their game in the right way. So a good portion of people who can run games around the flaws they find are not really given a place to vent/discuss/keep the rules in their head. And then the sycophants can't run a game because they are blind to the flaws.

So the only people running games in PF successfully are those people who love the game enough to keep it in their head and can understand the flaws of the game without discussing them "impolitely" with anyone (and PF discussions outside the main boards are pretty dead too).

Of course they aren't getting new players. A new edition won't help that without simplifying it to 5e levels (which might as just support 5e then)

Meanwhile, 5e only gets hurt by dev rulings and overanalyzing it, so they have no reason to even have a board, let alone moderate one.

mAcular Chaotic

Quote from: Rhedyn;1052068Meanwhile, 5e only gets hurt by dev rulings and overanalyzing it, so they have no reason to even have a board, let alone moderate one.

What do you mean?
Battle doesn\'t need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don\'t ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don\'t ask why I fight.

DeadUematsu

For me, dev rulings and overanalysis call to attention 5E's very passable design.