But not really.

3.5 has the same custom monster tables. You pick a CR move up and down on the table depending on stat, you get what your average damage per round is and DC of your ability and you are done.

Just because I prefer parity doesn't mean I won't also respect having rules for ad hoc monster generation because sometimes you just need to think quick on your feat.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1054099But not really.

3.5 has the same custom monster tables. You pick a CR move up and down on the table depending on stat, you get what your average damage per round is and DC of your ability and you are done.

Just because I prefer parity doesn't mean I won't also respect having rules for ad hoc monster generation because sometimes you just need to think quick on your feat.

I'm not sure what table you're referring to? Increasing an Orc to a CR 7 would be to give them levels in classes if you look at their Advancement. I could've missed the table though, so I am curious.

Quote from: Batman;1054105I'm not sure what table you're referring to? Increasing an Orc to a CR 7 would be to give them levels in classes if you look at their Advancement. I could've missed the table though, so I am curious.

Or you just make a CR 7 creature and call it an Orc.

Parity is great. But that doesn't mean 3e didn't have rules for doing things quickly instead. I've ran a few one shots pretty much ad hoc off that table.

The Pathfinder one is here: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/monster-creation/

Maybe the 3e one doesn't exist, but that would mean Paizo made that take by themselves which I doubt.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1054109Maybe the 3e one doesn't exist, but that would mean Paizo made that take by themselves which I doubt.

Paizo does actually do design stuff. There is no such 3e table, certainly not in the core books. It was a 4e innovation.

Building 3e NPCs like PCs is an insane thing to do for anyone who is actually GMing a regular game. Even running off the shelf NPCs is pretty horrible at higher level.

Quote from: S'mon;1054127Paizo does actually do design stuff. There is no such 3e table, certainly not in the core books. It was a 4e innovation.

Building 3e NPCs like PCs is an insane thing to do for anyone who is actually GMing a regular game. Even running off the shelf NPCs is pretty horrible at higher level.

Yeah, 3/3.5 doesn't have any sort of table like this but I have to admit, it's pretty awesome. Because I was bored I actually "build" the Orc Chieftain/Warrior in my example. It was about an hours work and I'm someone that knows most of the core basics of the 3.5 system. He ended up being a Barbarian 1 (lion totem)/ paladin of slaughter 4/ crusader 2 for a CR of 7. He has an evil aura, keeps enemies from running away (thicket of blades stance), can wield two battleaxes (Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting feat), and can Pounce for better action economy. To make it work I had to give him 32 point buy, two flaws for extra feats, and make sure he had lots of extra mechanics to say alive long (pot of healing, rage, etc). I also had to references 7 different books, 5 outside the Core ones. (the monster manual, player's handbook, tome of battle, unearthed arcana, complete champion, complete warrior, and the spell compendium).

All in all it was a fun exercise but it could've been easier done. I like Pathfinder's version so I'm thinking i'll be using that quite often if/when I plan to run 3.5 again.

Quote from: Batman;1054167All in all it was a fun exercise but it could've been easier done.

I like systems where I can do my conversion at the table. Eg yesterday running Stonehell the PCs go in an unexpected direction, as usual. I can convert the Labyrinth Lord/BX D&D stats over to 5e no problem during play. With 3e/PF I'd be dependent on published stats. And even using those is tough when the NPCs and monsters have a bunch of Feats I need to look up.

When I tried designing monsters without class levels the 3.x system really created huge headaches. Every monster type was treated as a class with levels, feats, skills, etc, and there were numerous fiddly bits that were not even necessary to most monster concepts. Pathfinder only simplified this in Unchained and I still heard people complaining about it not being complicated enough.

I absolutely hated this. 5e fixed it finally, but 5e still has the stupid restriction that every monster can only have one type regardless of the fluff logic. Rules Cyclopedia, which invented the first type mechanic, allowed monsters to have as many types as applicable. For example, the chimera was typed dragon because it had a dragon's head and wings.

I'm a tad confused. If you want simpler monster creation, why not just bullshit your way through?

Why ask for a lack of PC/NPC parity, when it's really easy to just make up abilities and roll with it?

Because from a player perspective, bullshit and monsters just not working like PCs feels exactly the same.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1054208I'm a tad confused. If you want simpler monster creation, why not just bullshit your way through?

Why ask for a lack of PC/NPC parity, when it's really easy to just make up abilities and roll with it?

Because from a player perspective, bullshit and monsters just not working like PCs feels exactly the same.

It's not easy for most people to go against the system. And players may call bullshit - as you are doing!

Quote from: S'mon;1054228It's not easy for most people to go against the system. And players may call bullshit - as you are doing!

Yeah but NPCs using different mechanics is also BS.

Their website being offline is becoming embarrassing imo. Either the software and/or servers they are using are REALLY out of date or they were victims of a hack. It's becoming a joke and a bad one even on their Facebook. My question is why would one not download and keep the PDFs of products they brought on their own PC or USB key. Apparently some of their fanbase no longer have access to their PDFS because they unlike myself did not download them and make a copy.

As for the second edition I have never been so uninterested in a new edition of rpg. Nothing in the rules made me excited. I have too much old edition material like almost a shelf and a half. With their "were woke and SJW as a rpg company and want to pander as much as to that demographic so were going to tell you how you have run games at your table" in the worst way possible at the beginning of the new edition.

Quote from: sureshot;1054258As for the second edition I have never been so uninterested in a new edition of rpg. Nothing in the rules made me excited. I have too much old edition material like almost a shelf and a half. With their "were woke and SJW as a rpg company and want to pander as much as to that demographic so were going to tell you how you have run games at your table" in the worst way possible at the beginning of the new edition.

I don't really get the whole "I have too much older edition material" complaint with RPGs? If the new mechanics and rules aren't interesting then fair enough, just continue to to use the old Mechanics as usual. From all reports they're still continuing to produce stuff for 1e anyways.


Also, who's the SJW crowed they're pandering to? Honestly don't know because I don't buy Pathfinder material, I just use their SRD to make characters lol.

Quote from: sureshot;1054258Their website being offline is becoming embarrassing imo. Either the software and/or servers they are using are REALLY out of date or they were victims of a hack. It's becoming a joke and a bad one even on their Facebook. My question is why would one not download and keep the PDFs of products they brought on their own PC or USB key.

I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that the unlimited downloads feature doesn't require an immediate response to having a hard drive crash or losing a USB cube.  Part of what you paid for was the back-up storage.  Sure, it could one day go away (like now, it seems) but it is fine for a customer to be miffed that the back-up they thought they had is now unavailable.

Quote from: Omega;1053903This is an oft repeated fallacy thats used to justify the edition treadmill and the damn 5 year plan.

The reality is it doesnt work unless the new edition is about say 90% the same. Maybee better organization, new art or such. But aside from TSR and Palladium hardly anyone does this. The marketing idiots keep convincing companies that you have to make huge changes so the older customer base must buy the new book. Except they wont. You lose a huge chunk of customers instead.

And all you had to do was just keep printing the current book and draw in new players and maintain your established customer base rather than telling them to either buy the game all over again or fuck off and die and then wonder why their market keeps shrinking.

"But but we NEEEEEEED a new edition with new rules to draw in new customers!" is a lie.

Pazio is likely about to find this out the hard way.

I'm a HERO player.  I can testify to this.

JG

Quote from: Batman;1054325I don't really get the whole "I have too much older edition material" complaint with RPGs? If the new mechanics and rules aren't interesting then fair enough, just continue to to use the old Mechanics as usual. From all reports they're still continuing to produce stuff for 1e anyways.

It's not about having older material so much as not really enthusiastic with the new set of rules and mechanics. I just can't get excited and plan to use PF 1E material. As for them planning to publish 1E material I will believe it once I see it

Quote from: Batman;1054325Also, who's the SJW crowed they're pandering to? Honestly don't know because I don't buy Pathfinder material, I just use their SRD to make characters lol.

Most rpg companies in their books usually write some suggestions to the DM along the lines of " don't be a jerk, be fair, allow anyone and everyone into your game/table no matter their gender, creed or race. Be fair and make sure everyone is comfortable and having fun". In 2E Paizo to show how "woke" they took that section and went "YOU will be inclusive and diverse at your tables. You will bend over backwards to accommodate your player desires. You will be a part time or was it a full time psychologist as well a mind reader because players are not obliged to tell you if they are uncomfortable with something". Written in a very heavy handed manner smacking you over the head with it. Picture someone talking down to you instead of at you poking a finger in your chest and wagging it in your face. I just found it disrespectful of the company and for what to pander to a demographic that usually does not play rpgs imo.