There is nothing new or interesting here. So they might have made playing Pathfinder a tad easier with less idiosyncrasies.

But like, my group has already stopped playing Pathfinder, a slightly better Pathfinder (that we have to relearn) with less content and nothing interesting to offer has just no appeal.

I could take what I like from 2e and just hack it into 1e (just use a bunch of unchained rules, augment automatic bonus progression to allow for weapons and armor special abilities without penalty) and you got a more complete game that still has a neat action economy.

Sadly, I think if Paizo invested their efforts into more 1e content and perhaps another unchained book, they would have done a lot better. My group has already said that we would play another Pathfinder game if they released an "Advanced Class Guide 2"

This new edition already feels like a flop.

I'm not so thrilled with paying for a printed copy of a game that isn't done yet. I did that with the newish Star Wars game from FFG and I wish I had just waited until the thing was done.

Quote from: finarvyn;1051327I'm not so thrilled with paying for a printed copy of a game that isn't done yet. I did that with the newish Star Wars game from FFG and I wish I had just waited until the thing was done.

I'm not going to play it either, but it is free.  At this point you actually can't pay for it, they only made enough for the people who really wanted a hard copy.

I'm starting to get edition fatigue yet willing to take a look at the new rules with a fresh open mind. I see no good reason personally to approach PF2 with any significant amount of resentment or negativity. They needed to do something new imo and a rehash, recycled rpg with better production values was imo not going to cut it this time around. Especially not with 5E stealing their market share.

Even C7 with 4E Warhammer kept the rules mostly the same yet made some modifications to the rules.

I downloaded it, even after being extremely disappointed by Starfinder. Not impressed.

I thought 3.x was okay and what I liked about Pathfinder is that it added lots and lots of stuff to it. New classes and new monsters My trouble with new editions is that basically it stops the new stuff cycle. They just sell you the old stuff over, with new stats for the new system.

Quote from: Brad;1051368I downloaded it, even after being extremely disappointed by Starfinder. Not impressed.

I like how Starfinder means sf flipmats I can use for White Star!

As for pf2 I think they would be wiser writing for 5e dnd. They have a big back catalogue they could convert.

Quote from: S'mon;1051390I like how Starfinder means sf flipmats I can use for White Star!

As for pf2 I think they would be wiser writing for 5e dnd. They have a big back catalogue they could convert.

And that would have been easy enough that they could keep making PF stuff.

But they probably wanted to keep their "We're number 1" staffing levels. So this failed gamble.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1051393But they probably wanted to keep their "We're number 1" staffing levels. So this failed gamble.

Yeah, I think it's a dumb move that will extract more money from hardcore fans but will cut them off from the bulk of new players coming up, which is who they need. They need to go back to basics - a monthly or bi-monthly subscription magazine publishing mass market 5e material, like when they had the licence for 'Dungeon'. And get it in the game stores at a decent price point.

No one is making you.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1051311There is nothing new or interesting here. So they might have made playing Pathfinder a tad easier with less idiosyncrasies.

But like, my group has already stopped playing Pathfinder, a slightly better Pathfinder (that we have to relearn) with less content and nothing interesting to offer has just no appeal.

I could take what I like from 2e and just hack it into 1e (just use a bunch of unchained rules, augment automatic bonus progression to allow for weapons and armor special abilities without penalty) and you got a more complete game that still has a neat action economy.

Sadly, I think if Paizo invested their efforts into more 1e content and perhaps another unchained book, they would have done a lot better. My group has already said that we would play another Pathfinder game if they released an "Advanced Class Guide 2"

This new edition already feels like a flop.

The only reason people even played Pathfinder was because they hated D&D 4e. 4e is gone now. But some players are nostalgic about hating 4e still. So they'll buy Pathfinder 2.0.

Quote from: S'mon;1051465Yeah, I think it's a dumb move that will extract more money from hardcore fans but will cut them off from the bulk of new players coming up, which is who they need. They need to go back to basics - a monthly or bi-monthly subscription magazine publishing mass market 5e material, like when they had the licence for 'Dungeon'. And get it in the game stores at a decent price point.

Idk about that. They had a large chunk of hardcore fans that bought every product they made simply because they were continuing 3.5.

There was a decent amount of people claiming they were cancelling all subscriptions simply because they went to a new edition. I would kind of define people who were buying every product as hardcore fans.

Sure I guess they will keep hardcore Paizo fans, but they will lose their 3.5 fans.

Maybe they shouldn't have over moderated their forum until it became a yes-man echo chamber and maybe then Paizo would be more cautious and humble. Overall Paizo seems to be hostile towards any customers that don't already like them. Heck their "official" stance (it's only what mods and other employees say to people) is that if you have a problem with the term being changed from Race to Ancestries, then you are racist and they don't want your money anyways (I really don't care what they call it, it's just a stupid thing to attack people for).

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;1051471No one is making you.

No, but Paizo needs him to.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1051509Idk about that. They had a large chunk of hardcore fans that bought every product they made simply because they were continuing 3.5.

There was a decent amount of people claiming they were cancelling all subscriptions simply because they went to a new edition. I would kind of define people who were buying every product as hardcore fans.

Sure I guess they will keep hardcore Paizo fans, but they will lose their 3.5 fans.

Maybe they shouldn't have over moderated their forum until it became a yes-man echo chamber and maybe then Paizo would be more cautious and humble. Overall Paizo seems to be hostile towards any customers that don't already like them. Heck their "official" stance (it's only what mods and other employees say to people) is that if you have a problem with the term being changed from Race to Ancestries, then you are racist and they don't want your money anyways (I really don't care what they call it, it's just a stupid thing to attack people for).

Indeed.  And the over-arching philosophy behind that sort of thinking is all neatly encapsulated in Pp.5-6, "Gaming Is For All." of their playtest rulebook.  The 434 page rulebook. :eek:

I downloaded, though I have no interest in buying PF2 stuff. I'm interested in the game design aspect, but can't stomach another fantasy rpg edition retread.