Quote from: Zak S;807565the original Death Frost Doom--he saw what was good and new in them straight off. I for one wouldn't have heard of any of those things if it wasn't for JM and I bet a ton of other people wouldn't either.

I'm on that list. First heard about it from his blog. I also think Mearls has said as much. DFD has been a ton of fun. I've run it, I've seen my kid run it, and I was in a game of it he ran, snickering to my self all the way while keeping mum.

Quote from: tuypo1;807545pundit what did Vincent Baker ever do to you.

Zak's the one who has personal vendettas.  Mine, with a few exceptions, are ideological.   I don't see that as a bad thing, I see it as a less petty thing than hating on only the people who have personally attacked you.

So the question is what Vince Baker done to hte hobby?  And the answer is that he's been part of a movement of pretentious pseudo-intellectuals trying to subvert and redefine it as something it isn't.

fair enough i can agree with you on that matter

Quote from: RPGPundit;808094Zak's the one who has personal vendettas.  Mine, with a few exceptions, are ideological.   I don't see that as a bad thing, I see it as a less petty thing than hating on only the people who have personally attacked you.

So the question is what Vince Baker done to hte hobby?  And the answer is that he's been part of a movement of pretentious pseudo-intellectuals trying to subvert and redefine it as something it isn't.

I think it probably makes much more sense to hate people who have personally slighted and attacked you, rather than people who have a slightly different idea about the correct way to design role playing games.

Quote from: RPGPundit;808094Zak's the one who has personal vendettas.  Mine, with a few exceptions, are ideological.   I don't see that as a bad thing, I see it as a less petty thing than hating on only the people who have personally attacked you.

So the question is what Vince Baker done to hte hobby?  And the answer is that he's been part of a movement of pretentious pseudo-intellectuals trying to subvert and redefine it as something it isn't.

I think people should disagree and behave well.

That's how you turn off your computer at the end of the day knowing more than when you turned it on in the morning.

Whatever Vincent (and James Mal) did, I think they were earnest about it.

Even if you hate them and all they stand for--you can always learn from an earnest person. You can put what you think next to what they think and talk to them and get something out of it Why this? Why that?. Dishonest people are just noise.

If there was a version of somebody I hate--like Karl Rove--sitting right here in my house who answered questions about what motivated them as earnestly as JamesMal and Vincent Baker did, I'd appreciate the fact that it was an opportunity to learn what made such an asshole tick. I don't have to guess and be one more dumb asshole guessing.

Somebody who just evades and fucks around--they're no use to anyone.

Baker likes games I hate and challenges the people who show up in his discussions a lot less (or at least a lot less directly) than I do. We talk about this. I know now what he thinks, how this happened, how much effort he's willing to put into it. Why he made those decisions, What he thinks it cost him. Why he made these choices constantly, what he 's into. What we do and don't agree about. (He is a pretty intense free speech advocate, despite the company he keeps.)

JM is (or was) a pretty strict Catholic and I'm a porn actor. But if I go "Ok, James so why…?" he gives an answer. And now I know some things I never really thought about before about being that kind of person, running those kinds of games, blah blah blah

(Obviously after Dwimmermount, he shrunk away--but that's a whole other issue. And, yeah--I do hope whoever was owed money on that got paid.)

He doesn't leave everyone on the internet in the position where they have to guess what's going on in the person they hate's head. And that reticence and fear of exposure and dishonesty is what leads to all the strawman arglebargle talking-past bullshit you get every day--people refusing to say what they think and instead putting up some front.

You'll never have universal agreement--but you can have disagreement that's productive. And JM did and VB does, and if you don't respect that--then maybe you just use the internet for a different reason than I do. I personally think the stuff I make and write and play is stronger because I have a sharper Idea of what it's not because I've talked to very eloquent advocates of doing things other ways.

I have a lot of patience for people who will talk back. That's pretty much all we do here: talk.

What exactly happened with Dwimmermount?

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;808227What exactly happened with Dwimmermount?

It was a Kickstarter the Grognardia author ran for  megadungeon he'd been discussing on the blog and elsewhere for a while. There was a lot of positive buzz about it. The kickstarter was successful, but then he was late. Then he was late some more. Then he was very late. Then he had a personal tragedy in his life and stopped communicating online with his backers about how late he was. About that point the shit hit the fan on various forums. People bitched and bitched and bitched about how late it was and how uncommunicative he was being.

Then, finally, a group of people he was working with on the project took it over from him completely and finally finished it.

Quote from: Zak S;808225I think people should disagree and behave well.

That's how you turn off your computer at the end of the day knowing more than when you turned it on in the morning.

Whatever Vincent (and James Mal) did, I think they were earnest about it.

Even if you hate them and all they stand for--you can always learn from an earnest person. You can put what you think next to what they think and talk to them and get something out of it Why this? Why that?. Dishonest people are just noise.

If there was a version of somebody I hate--like Karl Rove--sitting right here in my house who answered questions about what motivated them as earnestly as JamesMal and Vincent Baker did, I'd appreciate the fact that it was an opportunity to learn what made such an asshole tick. I don't have to guess and be one more dumb asshole guessing.

Somebody who just evades and fucks around--they're no use to anyone.

Baker likes games I hate and challenges the people who show up in his discussions a lot less (or at least a lot less directly) than I do. We talk about this. I know now what he thinks, how this happened, how much effort he's willing to put into it. Why he made those decisions, What he thinks it cost him. Why he made these choices constantly, what he 's into. What we do and don't agree about. (He is a pretty intense free speech advocate, despite the company he keeps.)

JM is (or was) a pretty strict Catholic and I'm a porn actor. But if I go "Ok, James so why...?" he gives an answer. And now I know some things I never really thought about before about being that kind of person, running those kinds of games, blah blah blah

(Obviously after Dwimmermount, he shrunk away--but that's a whole other issue. And, yeah--I do hope whoever was owed money on that got paid.)

He doesn't leave everyone on the internet in the position where they have to guess what's going on in the person they hate's head. And that reticence and fear of exposure and dishonesty is what leads to all the strawman arglebargle talking-past bullshit you get every day--people refusing to say what they think and instead putting up some front.

You'll never have universal agreement--but you can have disagreement that's productive. And JM did and VB does, and if you don't respect that--then maybe you just use the internet for a different reason I do.

I have a lot of patience for people who will talk back. That's pretty much all we do here: talk.

That's...a pretty good philosophy actually.

Quote from: TristramEvans;808229It was a Kickstarter the Grognardia author ran for  megadungeon he'd been discussing on the blog and elsewhere for a while. There was a lot of positive buzz about it. The kickstarter was successful, but then he was late. Then he was late some more. Then he was very late. Then he had a personal tragedy in his life and stopped communicating online with his backers about how late he was. About that point the shit hit the fan on various forums. People bitched and bitched and bitched about how late it was and how uncommunicative he was being.

Then, finally, a group of people he was working with on the project took it over from him completely and finally finished it.

1) Was the project good once it was done. 2) Did he ever explain himself?

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;8082361) Was the project good once it was done. 2) Did he ever explain himself?

1. It's a matter of debate, though better received than most people had expected, I think (though a chunk of it was written by the people who took it over--it's not really wholly his anymore)

2. Basically he had a lot of personal problems at the time and his life was a mess and he bit off more than he could chew--which he's copped to.

Quote from: TristramEvans;808230That's...a pretty good philosophy actually.

Yeah, agreed.

The entire content of Dwimmermount (sans art and the name Dwimmmermount) is under the Open Game License. And there is a trademark license for Dwimmermount itself.

When things went south with the fulfillment of the Kickstarter, I was among several people called in to see if there is a path forward. I was there because of the cartography I did. During this process I pushed strongly to see if there was a way to get the whole thing under a open license. My sentiment was if the community was going to bail James out of his project we should get something back more than just the project. I thought the fairest thing was to put the whole of the text under the open game license (along with completing the project).

Autarch deserves a lot of credit for getting this beast done and done well.

Quote from: estar;808700The entire content of Dwimmermount (sans art and the name Dwimmmermount) is under the Open Game License. And there is a trademark license for Dwimmermount itself.

Is that so?

That really is something.

Quote from: estar;808700The entire content of Dwimmermount (sans art and the name Dwimmmermount) is under the Open Game License. And there is a trademark license for Dwimmermount itself.

Are the maps OGL?

Quote from: Zak S;808705Are the maps OGL?

Yes, from page 410.

DESIGNATION OF PRODUCT IDENTITY The names Autarch™, Adventurer Conqueror King™, Adventurer Conqueror King System™, ACKS™, Laby-rinth Lord™, Advanced Labyrinth Lord™, Goblinoid Games™, and Dwimmermount™, when used in any context, are product identity. The title Dwimmermount is Product Identity. All artwork, logos, and presentation are product identity.

DESIGNATION OF OPEN GAME CONTENT All maps, text, tables, and game statistics are open game content, with the exception of text and terms defined above as product identity.

There is a trademark license for the name Dwimmermount itself on page 411.

The conditions are.

1. You must comply fully with the Open Game License, version 1.0a, as described above; and

2. The work may not be obscene in nature; in general, any work contain-ing subject matter that would qualify for an NC-17 movie rating in the United States, or an R rating due to explicit sexual content, is considered obscene for purposes of this license.

For doing the above you get the feeling following,

If you comply with the above conditions, you may use the product iden-tity element “Autarch”, “Adventurer Conqueror King”, “Adventurer Conqueror King System”, “ACKS”, or “Dwimmermount” for the pur-poses of identifying the source of open content which is re-used from this document and discussing the relationship of the derivative work to this original, subject to the following terms:

a. Any work making use of these elements must designate these elements as product identity in accordance with section 1(e) of the Open Game License version 1.0a;

b. Any work making use of these elements must bear a notice declaring the fact that Autarch, Adventurer Conqueror King, Adventurer Conquer-or King System, and ACKS are trademarks of Autarch LLC and that Dwimmermount is a trademark of James Maliszewski