I've been working on this magnificent beast of a kung-fu/wuxia/shonen/ridiculous martial arts cartoon game for a few years. I'm going to talk about it now and you're just going to have to live with that.
Goals
I wanted to make an RPG based on Fist of the North Star. If you don't know what that is, I pity you. Feel free to legally watch the movie here (https://www.midnightpulp.com/video/015291v/fist-north-star-movie-subbed/); it's a fantastic late 80's/early 90's anime that is basically the Road Warrior plus pressure-point kung-fu.
But of course, I didn't want to be derivative (and there were more 90's animes that I loved). So I drew in Vampire Hunter D (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykwh-XNxpGQ), Akira (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K8ujE7Z2EY), Darkstalkers, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z441EuNeYnc) Street Fighter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI284D4y1q4), Weapons of the Gods (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_of_the_Gods_(comics)), Ninja Scroll (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaXJI339uQs), Demon City Shinjuku (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uij7vHgn84)...
Y'know, like you do. I pulled in everything awesome I could find that shared a sort of common thread and put them in a post-apocalyptic wasteland.
So I had a "setting" that was reasonably kickass. Now, I needed a system to make all that work together. Also, you had to have giant kung-fu fights where like, D could leap off Kaneda's bike and stab a Kimon devil through the heart with the Asura blade. And you had to be able to break down buildings with your bare hands but like, not in the too-fluffy Fate way where you just *say* you're doing that but mechanically it's exactly the same thing as everything else.
Cool, fun, really destructive, and strategically challenging fights. And it had to be grimey and "wander the wastes-y", so your absurd over-the-top kung-fu powers couldn't just invalidate the grit.
And finally, it had to be something you could run and play and prep for just as confidently as you can with DnD ; which is to say, you should be able to explore (ala hexcrawls) and investigate (ala dungeons) and interact with the game-world in a meaningful way (ala.... Well, I mean, torches, rations, crafting, magic, basically everything in OD&D)
Writing it, but bad
I got some for-real interest from a tiny amount of people on good ol' /tg. I talked about it, people were into it, and I did the stupidest thing I could think of: I gave myself three weeks to write the entire game (https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/60173547/#60173547)
I succeeded... Sort of. (https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/text/lone%20wolf%20fists/) I took a lot of writing from the other, actual project I had been working on (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2017/11/excerpt-and-art-from-tian-shang.html) and combined it with a lot of sleep-deprived fresh work and created the Frankenstein's monster downloadable from this total sell-out shill link it's free just take it take it dammit (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/244258/Tian-Shang-Lone-Wolf-Fists-Eyebleed-playtest-version)
Of course, nobody can actually write a playable RPG in three weeks (or if they can, screw 'em; talented bastards) so this was a terrible, terrible mess.
Writing it again, but gooder
So now I'm writing and updating it on a somewhat more reasonable schedule. Chipping (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/06/lone-wolf-fists-gearing-up-for-some.html) away (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/06/lone-wolf-fists-tying-up-loose-ends.html) at (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/06/lone-wolf-fists-how-do-i-map-this.html) each (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/06/lone-wolf-fists-time-to-fight-some-tanks.html) section (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/06/lone-wolf-fists-high-octane-technical.html) in (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/07/lone-wolf-fists-example-of-play.html)turn (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/07/lone-wolf-fists-long-neglected-core.html), hoping (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/07/lone-wolf-fists-skills-pt1.html) that (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/07/lone-wolf-fists-skills-pt-2-eriks.html) each (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/07/skills-pt-3-sneak-attacks-and-detecting.html)leap (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/07/lone-wolf-fists-skills-pt-4-part-i-dread.html) will (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/07/lone-wolf-fists-skills-pt5-youre-taoist.html)be (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/07/lone-wolf-fists-art-from-post-apocalypse.html) the (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/08/lone-wolf-fists-making-sure-you-know.html) leap (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/08/lone-wolf-fists-time-to-get-wrecked-son.html) home. (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/08/lone-wolf-fists-punching-through.html)
And I want to talk about it.
Like, bad. I'm not here to shill, I just want to talk to people about doing a jump-kick off of a rocketbike and punching a building-sized demon in the face, or becoming a sentient robot with magical kung-fu and fighting a radioactive vampire. Or even just, like, hexcrawling in an over-the-top super-powered game with concrete-smashing kung-fu and scorpions that can destroy tanks.
So let's talk!
Is it OSR?
Only if you include Weapons of the Gods in "Old School", Pundit:D!
OK, Azraele, I'm reading what you say. But I'm, like, totally not getting why, after jumping off the rocketbike, you'd punch that demon in the face, instead of doing an awesome flying knee:p!
Quote from: RPGPundit;1051779Is it OSR?
Oof, tough question to answer. It's not a retroclone, although it's based on an
unholy fusion of the One Roll Engine (filtered through Legends of the Wulin and Weapons of the Gods) and Marvel FASERIP.
I'm trying to incorporate elements of classic RPG design into the writing of the game. Stuff like you talk about, actually; roleplaying and having that social dimension matter, and making the world "concrete" instead of giving GMs the now all-pervading "illusionsim" GM advice (http://rpgtheoryreview.blogspot.com/2007/01/lesson-illusionism.html).
(I've been heavily informed by another unholy alliance of Justin Alexander (http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/39885/roleplaying-games/smart-prep) and Zak Smith (http://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2012/05/game-is-player.html): those guys have great techniques for structuring games)
(You might note the not-subtle tributes I've done to some of Zak's crew, like my example of play (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/07/lone-wolf-fists-example-of-play.html) and his (http://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2010/03/how-to-play-game.html) have a lot in common and Nuke (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/07/lone-wolf-fists-art-from-post-apocalypse.html) looks suspiciously like Mandy Morbid (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-l5Ory8nWxDY/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAMy0/h87qpvXka48/s640-il/photo.jpg))
What counts as old-school?
Quote from: AsenRG;1051801Only if you include Weapons of the Gods in "Old School", Pundit:D!
OK, Azraele, I'm reading what you say. But I'm, like, totally not getting why, after jumping off the rocketbike, you'd punch that demon in the face, instead of doing an awesome flying knee:p!
I feel like flying knee opens up your crotch to potential shredding by a gigantic demon. I'd way rather have my arm eaten off than my groin, but tastes differ in this regard (http://badwebcomicswiki.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Mamabliss).
Fist of the North Star? Tables to generate on-road situations, troubled towns, mutated looks, villainous kung fu predators, and combat set-pieces is in order. If you want a long-term campaign, you will want to provide badass demographics to give GMs and players a roadmap of whose ass to kick to become the baddest dude in a X-mile radius.
Sounds like you want to make an old school (flavored) super hero game that focuses on OTT eastern martial arts, Chi powers and lore, etc.
I really liked the original FotNS, Ninja Scroll as well as Demon/Wicked City. What actual aspects of a game do you want to talk about specifically?
Quote from: The Exploited.;1051824Sounds like you want to make an old school (flavored) super hero game that focuses on OTT eastern martial arts, Chi powers and lore, etc.
I really liked the original FotNS, Ninja Scroll as well as Demon/Wicked City. What actual aspects of a game do you want to talk about specifically?
Um. you know, one might be tempted to think I had a ready answer to that.
One would be wrong, howeverI guess in general, I want to talk about...
What things do you want to see in the game/what things I'm putting in. Like, I'm straight-up putting Demon City Shinjuku in there (moderately re-skinned) as a place players can do stuff. I'm wanting to tribute the Kimon devils from ninja scroll in the mutations and powers (man especially wasp guy, remember him?). I've got the little psychic kids from Akira in there too.
But I'm always on the hunt for "hex filler" ideas; like, what would an urbancrawl (http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/36473/roleplaying-games/thinking-about-urbancrawls)in the demon city look like? What would you need to have to make it both frightening enough to do the movie justice, but also compelling enough for players to want to go and face the perils?
What makes fights fun in RPGs, specifically kung-fu fights? As a guy who was horribly disappointed in EX3's "martial arts" "fighting" "mechanics", I'm doing my damndest to make fighting mechanics that are
1) Actual mechanics for a fight
2) Easy to learn for newbie players/GMS
3) Fun
4) Deep enough to be a true strategic challenge worth investing your time and energy in
What games do that? What about combat mechanics makes them any of those things? What are some things you love/hate about fights in RPGs? What issues do you see arising trying to hit all those goals?
Who actually cares about the source material? I actually have no read for how popular/beloved FotNS/early 90's anime/manga even is. Who's excited about the premise of making that stuff an RPG (I mean, clearly me)? What about the setting is gameable, and what's a challenge? How can we distill the "essential" FotNS experience without resorting to "Roll to do the Anime Trope!" (ugh,
kill me if I do that)Stuff like that, mostly. That's my dream direction for this thread.
I don't generally watch anime so I have no idea of anything you're referring to, but I am a big fan of kung fu movies, particularly those by the Shaw Brothers. The difference is that movies were choreographed and performed by people who had deep knowledge of kung fu and martial arts. The very nature of anime means that it's not performed by actual martial artists and probably not even choreographed.
Quote from: JeremyR;1051847I don't generally watch anime so I have no idea of anything you're referring to, but I am a big fan of kung fu movies, particularly those by the Shaw Brothers. The difference is that movies were choreographed and performed by people who had deep knowledge of kung fu and martial arts. The very nature of anime means that it's not performed by actual martial artists and probably not even choreographed.
That does depend on what movie we're talking about. Remember, for every Legendary Weapons of China (https://bedrockgames.podbean.com/e/wuxia-workshop-5-legendary-weapons-of-china/) there's a Buddha's Palm (https://bedrockgames.podbean.com/e/wuxia-workshop-episode-3/).
Fist is a significant departure from reality; I don't think there's even lip service to real martial arts in it. But there's a certain.... Familiarity?... To it's structure, if you're a wuxia fan. Lone hero wandering the countryside, secret martial arts super moves, debts of honor, martial brotherhoods, sworn friends and foes, savage warlords...
Also, and I've devoted significant thought to this: I'm unsure what elements of wuxia combat are translatable into game mechanics. One of the strengths of say, D&D combat is that it is attempting to simulate situations that happen in reality (like, you can make a shieldwall or poke somebody with a spear or get into a wedge formation or a phalanx or...). Wuxia is heavily stylized, but that's for the benefit of an audience, making it less strategic and more purely visual.
Like, how do you translate that style outside of the aforementioned storygame mechanics? "Oh your description was super cool, have more dice!" is as close as I've ever seen that done (Exalted did this with Stunt dice) but that eventually turned into such a tactically essential element of combat that it caused arguments at the table.
I settled on making the characters hyper-competent and making their single combat roll branch in to lots of actions (and of course giving them mystical chi-powered kung-fu moves). Was this the best/only viable option for translating wuxia combat into RPG combat? I 'unno; I'm interested to hear your thoughts though!
Quote from: Azraele;1051828Um. you know, one might be tempted to think I had a ready answer to that. One would be wrong, however
I guess in general, I want to talk about...
I was interested to see where you want to actually take the game and examine the tone you were going for. That's why I was asking for specifics or clarification if you will...
I can't really comment on the mechanics as I don't know much about ORE... That's the Wild Talents one, if I'm not mistaken? I read it years ago, but I can't really remember it. I can of course relate to FASERIP.
As far as I'm concerned, if your re-skinning Demon City you on to a fucking good start. As the concept is very cool. I presume you're going to have analogs of the various different factions then?
The Kimon devils were brilliant... far more interesting then the final boss I thought. So, you'd be bringing in lots of hideous mutations. Nice... Incidentally, I loved the Spider Chick in Demon City as well as the wasp guy.
As far as I can tell, and I could be wrong, that a lot of that 90s Maga has definitely lost a lot of it's popularity, unfortunately. But I don't think distilling the material will be that hard. If you set up a good base for your lore (which I think you have) - It should have a decent appeal for most players (if they like OTT action/horror). Plus, you can ramp up the horror or stay more to the Kung fu action type or even go more sci-fi with the likes of Akira.
However, horror is always more appealing to me, but I'm sick in the head. :)
It also depends on how much granularity you want to see in your martial arts. Obviously, you don't want realism here. And if you've got dudes like Amano Jyaku flying around and demolishing skyscrapers you're going to need some very scalable mechanics.
Incidentally, do you envisage any humans living inside this city? If so, are they just slaves, sacrifices or just meat? There could always be stuff like in Doomed Megalopolis. Where you've got a nasty bastard wizard trying to summon up the big bad while sacrificing lots of humans which are needed for the spell.
For me, I'd also think about adding in stuff from the Japanese horror flicks. Bring in Sadako, but hype up her power and give her Kung Fu! Horrible spirits like the grudge to follow, tempt and torture the players.
Generally I like street level characters, but for the 90s Manga genre the PCs would be real billy badasses (for the genre I'd make an exception!) :). A bit like 'D' from Vampire Hunter D.
As the genre is so wide reaching, I'd personally incorporate many gates to hell within the city. But each hell is somewhat different. Maybe a bit like Kult, where you break through reality. That would give the city a wide scope of different adversaries and backdrops.
Handling Mar Arts is always problematic imo. Will each style have different moves and therefore powers/traits? Or will they be generic moves. Like, 'I sidekick him'. Or will it be, I use my 'shadow kick' that knocks him through a wall (gotta love Johnny Cage)? Do you want to distinguish them within the game? Like between Kung Fu, Ninjitsu and Western Close Quarters Combat (or Combatives) for example?
So, the players are effectively using different styles within the game, but each 'style' has its own mechanics set of effects, etc?
Given the fact that I love the old 90's Manga stuff, I'd love to see a game like this exist.
This game idea, and this thread, are chock full of cool. I ran lots of HKAT (Hong Kong Action Theater), Ninjas & SuperSpies and Feng Shui so I'm totally onboard.
Could you post an example of play for how you envision your setting and system working at the table?
Quote from: DeadUematsu;1051818Fist of the North Star? Tables to generate on-road situations, troubled towns, mutated looks, villainous kung fu predators, and combat set-pieces is in order. If you want a long-term campaign, you will want to provide badass demographics to give GMs and players a roadmap of whose ass to kick to become the baddest dude in a X-mile radius.
Yes. *YES* Charts and tables creating awesome, evocative things are a must, as are proper demographics.
(After ACKs, I just don't feel right about making a game where you can't conquer/found your own kingdom. Macris really raised the bar on us!)
To exhibit my dedication to kickass charts, here's my d100 random mutation chart (first draft)
Spoiler
Mutations
1.Go blind in one eye
2.Go deaf in one ear
3.One arm withers into uselessness
4.One leg shrivels into a useless club
5.Hideous facial disfigurement
6.1d10 sightless eyes grow from body
7.Additional arm grows, withered and functionless
8.Additional leg grows, torpid and immobile
9.Tongue becomes malformed (forks, thickens, etc.)
10.Malignant tumor grows visibly from flesh
11.2nd degree radiation burns over entire body
12.Hair falls out in clumps
13.Arm or leg bones double in length
14.Emaciated form
15.Bloated form
16.Vestigial horns
17.Vestigial wings
18.Vestigial tail
19.Can only digest blood
20.Burn in sunlight (Rank 2 Environmental Effect)
21.Flammable Skin (+1R to fire against you)
22.Cold vulnerability (+1R to cold against you)
23.Polluted blood (Deadly Imbalance)
24.Internal organs externalize (-1 Health box, -1R to all Endurance actions)
25.Translucent skin
26.Nails become claws (Serve as weapon)
27.Savage fangs (Serve as weapon)
28.Elastic limbs
29.Monstrous size (+1R Power and destructive actions, +1 Health box)
30.Prehensile tail (Serves as limb if another is damaged/missing)
31.Bodily charge (Generate R1 electrical field from body)
32.Bifurcation (Can split into clones, see description)
33.Independent eye (can travel and transmit vision independent of body)
34.Armored flesh (d10 points of armor)
35.Acidic spit (R2 acid strike, 1/round)
36.Swallowing gullet (can swallow and hold anything up to your size in stomach; see full description)
37.Sonar/echolocation (As Senses R3, but natural ability)
38.Animal Transformation (transform into random animal, see description)
39.Monstrous transformation (See description)
40.Centaur torso (Move action +1R, always mounted)
41.Wings (fly and move in 3 dimensions at normal speed)
42.Gills (breath water as naturally as air)
43.Fire resistance (+1R to Endurance against fire, flame attacks deal 1 Rank less damage)
44.Cold resistance (+1R to Endurance against cold, ice attacks deal 1 Rank less damage)
45.Acid/Poison/Toxin resistance (+1R to Endurance against any poison or toxin, poison or toxin attacks deal 1 Rank less damage)
46.Eat inorganic matter (derive nutrients as if food was healthful. Bite through metal like stale cheese)
47.Body spines
48.Gas/Ink cloud
49.Camel hump
50.Gecko hands
51.Haunted
52.Possessed
53.Unbidden psychic
54.Solipsistic nihilism
55.Mental fog
56.Spiritual lethargy
57.Alien memories
58.Unending horrors/phobias
59.Haunted by phantoms
60.Living hellmouth
61.Pyrokinetic spasms
62.Berserk trigger
63.Dada laughter
64.Uzumaki obsession
65.Unholy
66.Urge to kill
67.Dreams of Doom
68.Complete amnesia
69.Dark destiny
70.Wicked vice
71.Psychic vampire
72.No reflection
73.Unbidden psychic resonance/ memory
74.Eternal sorrow
75.Unable to sleep
76.Third eye with psychic vision
77.Remote viewing
78.Psychic resonance sense
79.Dream seeing
80.Prophetic visions
81.The Killing Machine (Emotional Imbalance: +1 Effort/shut off personality/emotions)
82.Psychic resilience
83.Novice psychic power
84.Expert psychic power
85.Master psychic power
86.Boosted Intellect
87.Phasing
88.Teleporting
89.Matter control (handful of matter)
90.Energy control (mild current)
91.Pyrokinesis
92.Psychic charm
93.Memory theft
94.Soul-judging gaze
95.Devil friend
96.Memetic virus creator
97.Kinetic absorption
98.Psychic illusion
99.Astral projection
100.Post-human shrivel (reduce corruption from psychic power usage)
Quote from: The Exploited.;1051853I was interested to see where you want to actually take the game and examine the tone you were going for. That's why I was asking for specifics or clarification if you will...
I can't really comment on the mechanics as I don't know much about ORE... That's the Wild Talents one, if I'm not mistaken? I read it years ago, but I can't really remember it. I can of course relate to FASERIP.
As far as I'm concerned, if your re-skinning Demon City you on to a fucking good start. As the concept is very cool. I presume you're going to have analogs of the various different factions then?
This post of yours is *everything I wanted from this thread and more* mate. I'm going to luxurious respond to each of your points with as much detail as I can muster.
• Yeah the Wild Talents one is ORE, although the system I'm working on only bears passing resemblance to "classic" ORE games, though
• It works a lot more like FASERIP; you roll, look for matches, and compare your result to a chart to determine how big of an effect it can have
It works like this; you roll a pool of d10s for actions; you match them into sets, more dice in a set, bigger effect. You usually take only the biggest set you roll, but since it's a kung-fu game you can use any other sets you roll to do take more actions.
The bigger the set, the higher the result. This works like the chart in FASERIP, with higher results able to do more spectacular things/
(Actually, there's a huge example of play spoiler-tagged below if you want to check it out)
When it comes to the Demon City Shinjuku: It's just one of the places I want in the setting (think of it like a megadungeon). They've got their own evil faction that I present here for your consideration
Spoiler
Shadow Vipers
Justice? Innocence? Let the naïve spill their blood for those phantoms. Only one thing is the world is true: The strong were born to prey on the weak
Not all the world went into the darkness afraid; some welcomed the howling blackness as an old friend. Murderers, assassins, criminals; united before in spirit, they found a new kingdom in the world's grave. As the gates of hell opened, the devils found unexpected allies awaiting them with open arms and thirsting teeth.
History
Even as the hot winds cooled over the world-grave of humanity, the world had yet to tire of killing. It treasured death enough to immortalize the nascent clan. Many were the warlords killed by their daggers and their poisons, and great was the wealth which flowed to their blood-crusted hands.
From his dark throne in his dark stronghold, the undying Mockingbird Emperor leads the Vipers as a languid and sadistic god. Whether his legendary depravity, genocidal crusades and horrific appetites are the product of demonic infection or spring wholly from his own sick mind, only the virtuoso of hell can say.
But this is true; he supplies ready victims to whet the knives of his loving followers, and missions of murder to delight their wicked ids. The world grows ever darker, and the Vipers smile.
Goals
The Vipers are contract killers, sadists, diabolists, and madmen. They serve and profit from the edicts of the Mockingbird Emperor. Both his power and his grotesque and solipsistic philosophy draw the Vipers to his ends.
The Vipers seek profit; directly with ill-won lucre or indirectly through the removal of their enemies. Many of them champion the clan's philosophy of sadistic decadence, what they call the "Virtue of Hell". These dark souls seek to bring misery, slavery and corruption to the world, not as a means but as an end.
For the strong to prey on the weak: only this is the proper shape of the world.
Any may brave the labyrinthine streets of Suicide Heaven and offer contract to the clan. Such bargains come at a weighty cost; not merely of wealth, but also to one's integrity, to their soul. What depraved soul is so desperate as to offer contract in hell?
Why be a member of the Shadow Vipers?
They're cool! The entire clan is brooding, gothic bad guys, aloof vampires, cackling psychopaths, and darkly awesome villains of every stripe. If trench coats and demon swords are your character's thing, you'll fit right in with the Shadow Vipers.
If your character's relationship with evil is more nuanced, this clan is still a perfect fit. Haunted swordsmen with a mysterious past, half-demons struggling to cling to their vanishing humanity, and those walking the razor's edge of dark power for the greater good are all ideal Shadow Vipers.
Vipers can be grim or sadistically gleeful. Taciturn and mercenary in their aims or indulgent and depraved. The stone-eyed assassin and the sharp-toothed fanatic are siblings in the Shadow Viper's den.
Masteries
As killers, assassins, and dark sorcerers, the Shadow Vipers excel in teaching the arts of killing and the occult. They offer mastery of:
• Senses
• Agility
• Spirit
Fighting Style: Naraka's Cataclysms
Said to be a gift from the powers of Hell, Naraka's Cataclysms unleashes horrors on earth. It is a cruel, vicious style, emphasizing personal power, cruelty, maiming, and terror. It blends diabolic might, infernal cunning, and unholy sorcery into a fighting style of nightmarish strength and terrifying subtlety.
Training What it looks like, where to get it, who and what to get it from
Novice
Flesh-Drinking Cut
• Cost: 4
• Rank: 1
• Facing: 4-9
• Power: Offensive, wounding:1d10 (in addition to damage, builds 1d10 Aggravation towards any Physical Imbalance)
Shadow Puppeteer's Art
• Cost: 5
• Rank: -
• Facing: -
• Power: Creates a minion from the surrounding darkness and shadow. This minion possesses 1 Effort die, 1 Health box and Senses Mastery. It flawlessly obeys your instructions, which you need no give verbally as it is perfectly in tune with your will. Lasts 1 round but is Sustainable. In areas without darkness, this technique is powerless
Unbreathing Killer Meditation
• Cost: 5
• Rank: 1
• Facing: Any
• Power: Boosts any Senses actions to hide and sneak. You can blend in with any environment to hide; your clothing and flesh magically camouflage with the surrounding terrain, even in bright light on an open plain
Know and Dread
• Cost: 3
• Rank: 1
• Facing: 6-9
• Power: Boosts Heart actions to intimidate or awe. You may build Aggravation towards a Social Imbalance inspiring Terror:
o Terror: Social Imbalance
o Mechanical: Effort Pool
o Dramatic: You cannot harm, disobey or oppose the object of your terror (the creator of this Imbalance or a subject chosen by them). You may cower, act servile, or indirectly oppose them, but not if you have the barest chance of being caught
Expert
Techniques may boost Senses rather than their stated effect
Glint of Hellish Steel
• Cost: 10
• Rank: 2
• Facing: 5-9
• Power: Offensive, ranged, wounding:2d10. Blasts a beam of hellish red energy from a fist, foot, eye or weapon, eviscerating the foe
Unwholesome Form
• Cost: 10
• Rank: -
• Facing: -
• Power: Transmogrify your body into a mass of bats, rats, roaches, snakes, or other vermin. You can split the swarm, but you must segment off a minimum of 1 of your Effort Dice and 1 Health level to each sub-swarm. You may endow them with more dice and health at your option. Your "central swarm" retains all other elements of your character and must retain the above minimums of Health and Effort dice: if it is destroyed, the other swarms perish alongside it, destroying you. Each swarm has full access to your mind, abilities, and powers while within the same Region; those wandering further crumble into shadows and blood, returning their power to the central swarm.
Slake the Savage Thirst
• Cost: 9
• Rank: 2
• Facing: 0-4
• Power: Enhances a Grab. While holding a victim, you syphon 1d10 Health from them and convert it into Prana, storing it in your Chakra Pools. Sustainable
Master
Techniques may boost Senses rather than their stated effect. Increases Effect Ceiling to 7
Open Hell's Gate
• Cost: 19
• Rank: 3
• Facing: 4-9
• Power: Offensive, ranged, area attack, wounding: 3d10 primary target, 1d10 secondary targets. Blasts a gout of infernal energy, bathing an entire battlefield in diabolic power. If a Rank of 6+ is achieve, this causes a Corruption disaster.
Shadow Waltz
• Cost: 16
• Rank: 3
• Facing: 0-3
• Power: Defensive. Allows you to enter any darkness or shadow and emerge from any other in the same Battlefield, as though it were a door. The shadow-walk is Sustainable, though the defense boost is not
Ultimate
Technique may boost Senses rather than their stated effect. Increases Effect Ceiling to 8
Eternal Flesh
• Cost: Varies
• Rank: -/5
• Facing: Any
• Powers: This technique, the ultimate gift from Hell, grants its master near-total immortality. This has the following effects:
o Unkillable: You cannot be slain except by a holy attack. If you are vanquished, your body regenerates 1d10 Health per round, pulling itself back together from whatever shreds remain, until you are completely regenerated
o Horribly Healthful Flesh: You may regenerate destroyed limbs or sense organs for 25 Prana. You may heal 1d10 Health or Physical Aggravation for 3 Prana
o Hell's Vision: You may boost a Senses action by 5 Ranks with an Effect ceiling of 8 for 50 Prana.
Leadership and organization
Although anyone mighty enough to vanquish the current leader can claim leadership, Mockingbird Emperor has led the clan for the entirety of its living memory.
His generals, each a living nightmare in their era, tend to groom their own cabals of zealous followers, lending the clan a cultish structure. Most guard their secret powers jealously, and cabals rarely outlive the treacherous demise of their founder.
Rarely, Mockingbird Emperor will take a student that sparks his interest. His favorites one day try to wrest the clan from him: he keeps their taxidermied remains as decorations for his throne room.
Swelling the Viper's ranks are horrors and demons of murky supernatural origin. Equal parts eldritch masters and living war machines, these terrors slake their appetites on the warm flesh of the clan's enemies.
Territory
Suicide Heaven is the city-temple of the Shadow Vipers. Carved and stamped with demoniac runes, this weird city keeps a foot in two worlds: The grimy, decaying world of the living and the alien, anthropomorphic world of demons.
Surprisingly, many human beings dare to live and work in the devil city's haunted streets. Some till the rooftop gardens that feed their wicked barons, others serve in dens of iniquity, offering dice and flesh to a vice-hungry world.
And should their lives be snuffed out by crime or hungry demons, what better could they have expected in the wastes?
Quote from: The Exploited.;1051853The Kimon devils were brilliant... far more interesting then the final boss I thought. So, you'd be bringing in lots of hideous mutations. Nice... Incidentally, I loved the Spider Chick in Demon City as well as the wasp guy.
You didn't like the last boss? I combined his "come back from the dead-fu" with a hefty dose of Magnus Lee from Vampire Hunter D and Rebi Rah from Demon City Shinjuku when I was writing the powers for my bad guys up there.
(I also made them ninjas like this sick motherfucker from Ninja Scroll):
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2703[/ATTACH]
I also loved the spider chick, for completely legitimate and in no way creepy reasons.
Also, see above for a taste of mutations. I haven't started working on a list of powers for demons yet, but if it doesn't have:
1) The ability to help you re-create all the baddies in the aforementioned movies and
2) At least 100 options
I'll consider it a disastrous failure
Quote from: The Exploited.;1051853As far as I can tell, and I could be wrong, that a lot of that 90s Maga has definitely lost a lot of it's popularity, unfortunately. But I don't think distilling the material will be that hard. If you set up a good base for your lore (which I think you have) - It should have a decent appeal for most players (if they like OTT action/horror). Plus, you can ramp up the horror or stay more to the Kung fu action type or even go more sci-fi with the likes of Akira.
However, horror is always more appealing to me, but I'm sick in the head. :)
You're my kind of sick, brother.
I put the freaky psychic powers of Akira in there too (complete with little smurf kids and hideous, hideous mutations)
My hope is that there's enough variety in the setting that you can not only play out a suitable RPG for Demon City and Ninja Scroll and Akira and Fist of the North Star, but also so that you can put the characters from those shows into a giant mason jar like kung-fu insects and shake them to your heart's content. That is the highest heaven.
Quote from: The Exploited.;1051853It also depends on how much granularity you want to see in your martial arts. Obviously, you don't want realism here. And if you've got dudes like Amano Jyaku flying around and demolishing skyscrapers you're going to need some very scalable mechanics.
Oh I agree. I've spent an embarrassing amount of time on scalable mechanics, which I leave you to judge:
Skills part 1 (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/07/lone-wolf-fists-skills-pt1.html)
Skills part 2 (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/07/lone-wolf-fists-skills-pt-2-eriks.html)
Skills part 3 (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/07/skills-pt-3-sneak-attacks-and-detecting.html)
Skills part 4 (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/07/lone-wolf-fists-skills-pt-4-part-i-dread.html)
Skills part 5
(http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/07/lone-wolf-fists-skills-pt5-youre-taoist.html)
Also, breaking things (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/08/lone-wolf-fists-punching-through.html)
Quote from: The Exploited.;1051853Incidentally, do you envisage any humans living inside this city? If so, are they just slaves, sacrifices or just meat? There could always be stuff like in Doomed Megalopolis. Where you've got a nasty bastard wizard trying to summon up the big bad while sacrificing lots of humans which are needed for the spell.
For me, I'd also think about adding in stuff from the Japanese horror flicks. Bring in Sadako, but hype up her power and give her Kung Fu! Horrible spirits like the grudge to follow, tempt and torture the players.
Generally I like street level characters, but for the 90s Manga genre the PCs would be real billy badasses (for the genre I'd make an exception!) :). A bit like 'D' from Vampire Hunter D.
Yeah man, if D can't buddy up with Kenshiro, Kaneda, and Blanka from street fighter, I've failed.
I really do want human beings in the city; I figure they'll have the same oddly world-weary attitude that those in the actual movie had ("Better here than out in those damn wastes! At least we know when the demons are hungry here!"). Maybe they Shadow Vipers have got some enslaved in rooftop gardens to ensure a plentiful food supply (mostly of vegetables for humans, but I mean, farmers double as meat in a pinch)
Quote from: The Exploited.;1051853As the genre is so wide reaching, I'd personally incorporate many gates to hell within the city. But each hell is somewhat different. Maybe a bit like Kult, where you break through reality. That would give the city a wide scope of different adversaries and backdrops.
... Huh.
HUHYou know, I was going to have it lead to Naraka and the Avici Hells, so this isn't a bad idea. "Different hells" is a pretty apt description of that cosmology...
Quote from: The Exploited.;1051853Handling Mar Arts is always problematic imo. Will each style have different moves and therefore powers/traits? Or will they be generic moves. Like, 'I sidekick him'. Or will it be, I use my 'shadow kick' that knocks him through a wall (gotta love Johnny Cage)? Do you want to distinguish them within the game? Like between Kung Fu, Ninjitsu and Western Close Quarters Combat (or Combatives) for example?
So, the players are effectively using different styles within the game, but each 'style' has its own mechanics set of effects, etc?
Yeah, you've got to "set down your rock" on the level of granularity of your martial arts, I find.
For this system, I left the mundane punches and kicks to the combat system's normal resolution: roll your dice, tell me what your sets mean ("I roundhouse-kick him with this 27, then I headbutt him with my 13")
For the really cool martial arts moves, I gave players a list of powers loosely assorted into "magical martial arts styles": Like, one teaches you lightning-associated stuff and lets you throw thunderbolts, one teaches you fire-stuff and let's you firebend like a boss...
(As far as I can tell, every single kung-fu game does some variant of this: Exalted, Wandering Heroes of Ogre Gate, Weapons of the Gods, Legends of the Wulin...)
I actually left a lot unspecified but implied, so that descriptions could have more latitude. Like, that "normal attack" set could be a fist or a foot or you hurling a chunk or rebar at some asshole's head; describe it cool!
Quote from: The Exploited.;1051853Given the fact that I love the old 90's Manga stuff, I'd love to see a game like this exist.
Yeah and there's nothing like this that really scratches my itch for it. The last FotNS game that actually existed is like twenty years old and exclusively available in Italian; games like *Fight!* and it's ilk are woefully under-developed. EX3 is a gigantic mess.
Literally the only way I could play this game was to design it. So, here we are. Soon, we shall WATA together.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1051905This game idea, and this thread, are chock full of cool. I ran lots of HKAT (Hong Kong Action Theater), Ninjas & SuperSpies and Feng Shui so I'm totally onboard.
Could you post an example of play for how you envision your setting and system working at the table?
Sure. I wrote this one for the actual book:
Spoiler
Game Concept intro/ Example of Play
In this section we're going to give you an example of how a game looks when you're playing it. There are a few layers to the example, so to prevent confusion we're going to give you a little description.
In the "real-life" part of the example, we have the GM Jack and his player, Jill. They're sitting around the table eating snacks and playing the game.
Jill's character Nuke inhabits the imaginary world of the game. When her character says and does things, this is the layer she acts within. We call this the Shared Mindspace.
(Jack, in his role as the GM, plays the other characters in the Shared Mindspace. He also controls some of the events, although the game's rules have a say in this too. If you like, you can think of the rules as another player who's playing the physics and destiny of the Shared Mindspace)
Finally, Jack and Jill are having an ongoing conversation about the game as they're playing it. This serves as a sort of membrane between the imaginary game-world and their real world.
When we're talking to you, the reader, we'll be using italics. We'll be popping in as we show you their sessions, to explain new concepts as they're introduced.
...
We join our players, Jack and Jill, sitting around the table in the real world. Jack is behind a cardboard Game Master screen studying a spiral-bound notebook while Jill is eating nachos. He clears his throat:
"Okay, when last we left our hero..."
"Heroine" Jill interrupts. Jack rolls his eyes and grins.
"Yes, of course majesty" he smirks
This is a bit of pre-game banter. Jack, the Gamemaster (GM) is gearing up to run the game. Jill, the Player, is getting herself comfortable and preparing to play her Player Character (PC), Nuke.
"Anyway, you're still in the Radioactive Scorpion's camp, trying to find a lead on that little blue psychic kid. The sun is setting deep and red, and it's painting everything bloody"
Here, Jack is Setting the Scene. He tells the player where their PC begins and what their goal is. He's also adding some immersive detail using one of the character's senses; in this case, the sight of the vivid red sunset. We'll forgive his clumsy prose, since he makes it up in enthusiasm
Jill punches her palm a few times to pump herself up. "Okay refresh my memory; why do I care about this guy again?"
"Your master Toxic Dragon wants you to see if he'd make a good ally against the Emerald Kirin"
Jill blinks "The asshole tree guys-?"
"The asshole tree guys, yes"
"Ah"
She steeples her fingers "Cool, cool. What have I learned about little blue guy? Does he live in a magical village? Maybe have a ska band?"
She grins maliciously at Jack, who takes a breath to gather his thoughts under her onslaught of setting mockery "You know that he lifted a bus with his mind and smashed a demon with it-"
"Oh my god I remember that! That was awesome!"
"-Aaaand you know that happened in the gorge filled with huge mutant insects"
"....Ah. Right. That place sucks"
"It does suck. It also is rumored to lead to a haunted city in the north"
"Haunted eh?!" Jill slaps the table with both palms "That is 100% garbled rumors of a psychic guy! I am 1000% sure!"
"That isn't how percentages work"
Jill is asking some questions here; she's establishing the "who/what/why/where/when" of her character, the setting and the scenario. This is orienting her in the game world and helping her to get into character.
Note here that both she and Jack are referencing events from previous games. This is because they are part of an ongoing Campaign; a linked series of game sessions.
What happened in prior sessions is the "past" of characters in the game's world, and the current session is their "present"; the events that transpire will influence future sessions. Keep this is mind; actions have consequences!
"Okay, tell me about the camp"
Jack glances at his notes "It's a burned-out husk of an ancient factory; the catwalks and rafters are stuffed with people under Dragon's protection. They've made a kind of shanty-town out of the rusted scaffolding, to keep themselves off the hot sand"
Jill stuffs a decadently cheesy nacho into her mouth, chewing thoughtfully "I need to find a way to get through that valley without getting eaten by giant bugs" she mumbles through a mouthful of snack
She swallows it. Decisively.
"I'm going to have Nuke climb up that scaffolding and check out the lay of the land"
Jack nods "You clamber up like a spider monkey. From this height, you can see the gorge running like a gash through the mountains."
"Rad. Aside from the way I went in last time, can I see any sneakier way to get though?'
"There's a webwork of fissures, dry mountain streams and foot-worn hunter paths, so there are a lot of ways through..."
"Awww yes-"
"... But any of them could have a giant bug's nest hidden in it"
"-Crap"
Here Jill is taking actions with Nuke. Note that she's treating the described world as having its own imagined reality: we call this imaginary world of the game the Shared Mindspace.
Further note that she's moving and acting entirely like a person within that world; characters in the game's world can do what a person can do. There's no need to roll dice to climb the scaffolding or see the canyon; those actions are well within her capabilities and there's no risk or danger.
Finally, this kind of pacing is called a Real-Time Scene. Time is moving at roughly the same rate in and out of character. This isn't incredibly important now, but it will become so later when we skip ahead in time with a Montage or slow it down with an Action scene.
"I need a new plan... Okay, Nuke scans the huddled masses; do I see any hunters that could maybe tell me about those paths?"
"Oh yeah; the hunters occupy a slightly elevated social caste, so they kind of stand out. You see an older hunter with an eyepatch leaning against a pipe and regaling some wide-eyed youths with tales of hunting in the mountain gorge"
"Effin' bingo. I strut up to him all macho-style and say:
Oy! You an huntah?"
Jill's speaking in-character here. This means that what she says is what Nuke says. This is an essential part of roleplaying, allowing you to communicate within the Shared Mindspace. In Jill's case, she distinguishes Nuke's voice from her own with an insultingly bad Cockney accent. This isn't necessary, but it is a lot of fun.
***CALLOUT BOX*** (To make this next part a little easier to comprehend, we're going to name the person speaking then tell you what they say.) ***CALLOUT BOX***
JACK: The hunter raises his good eyebrow at you and grins "Well I clearly ain't a very immersive storyteller! What can I do for you Miss?"
JILL (as Nuke): "I need to get across that gorge you're yammerin' about. D'ya know a woy through?" and then I'm gonna jerk my thumb towards the dry creeks to kinda emphasize the way I want to go
JACK: He sneers "Sorry lass, hunter's paths are propriety information. I'd endanger my livelihood, tellin' you which paths are safe! Forget it"
JILL: This guy sucks! Hey Jack, do I still have some gold left over from bribing that fortune teller last session?
JACK: Oh, yeah. I think you've still got a few coins. Are you thinking about bribery again?
JILL: More than thinking! I am straight-up bribing him. "How about I make it woth ya while, mate?" and I'll rub a few of the coins together
JACK: Yeah he's not having it. He kind of shakes his head like "Can you believe THIS broad?" then he goes back to his story. "Now WHERE was I....?"
JILL: Oh you did not even. I get in his face and hold my fist under his nose. "List'n gubnuh, how many of your teeth do you need ta swallow before you're feelin' cooperative?!" Oh and I want to use my kung-fu fire powers to wreath my fist in fire
JACK: Your Fire Discipline Motion? Yeah alright; it's purely cosmetic but it gets your point across. He gets REAL friendly real quick when he realizes you can turn him into a cinder with magic fire
JILL: Yeah that's what I thought
The roleplaying going on here is purely in-character dialog, with some occasional action descriptions here and there. You'll note that sometimes the player says exactly what the character does, and sometimes they just describe the gist of the message; either is perfectly acceptable.
The attitudes, thoughts, feelings, motivations, etc. of the characters are acted out by their respective players. You can ask questions, negotiate, threaten... Anything you could reasonably do in a real social situation. Just like in the real world, some people are helpful, and some are real jerks.
Nuke has clearly discovered an effective method for making the hunter comply with her wishes.
You might also note Jill's use of a kung-fu technique; we'll go in to more detail on those a bit later.
Jack nods in approval of Jill's social aptitude. "Okay, he leads you to his trusty footpath; a winding ziggurat cutting its way through the gorge's close end."
Here, Jack is skipping time ahead with a small Montage. Note his description contains the character's brief walk from the camp to the gorge. When they arrive at the path, time resumes its normal pace with a new Real-Time scene.
He takes another look at his notes. When he's digested the information to his satisfaction, he raises his head and adopts the mannerisms of the one-eyed hunter again "Alright lass; this here's called the jumper; it's safe enough, but there's a chasm halfway through that justifies the name"
Jill narrows her eyes "I sense his usefulness has ended. I'll shoo him off and check out this path"
"Alright then! Its narrow, like a shepherd's path; you would have totally overlooked it without the tipoff"
"True. I'm not much of a navigator-ess"
"Not actually a word"
"What about this jump again?" Jill chides, eager to get to the good part (and who could blame her?)
"Yeah yeah, I'm getting there. Or rather, you are."
"Wait hold up; I just realized I don't trust the hunter like, at all"
Jack arches an eyebrow "Ok...?"
"I want to search around, make sure he's not leading me to my doom"
Jill picks up five 10-sided dice (also called d10s) and rolls them. "How good can I see and hear with a Senses roll of 23?"
Now, finally, Jill's using some game mechanics. There's a real risk of failure and potential consequences present in scanning the path for lurking danger. Hence, she's using Nuke's Effort Dice and Skills to increase her chances of success.
Effort Dice are a pool of d10s that represent a character's capabilities. To use them, pick up one d10 per point of Effort and roll them all at once.
The number on a die's face-up side is its Facing; higher is generally better, read 0's and 10's as 0.
Line the dice up on your character sheet in order from lowest to highest Facing, with same-Facing dice positioned above each other vertically. Here's the dice that Jill rolled for Nuke:
1,2,3,3,5
When you take an action, you can pick from any single die or any Set of dice; Sets are dice with the same Facing.
To read the total for an action:
• The number of dice in the Set is the "tens" column or Rank
• The Facing is the "ones" column
In this case, if Jill had selected the 5 her total would have been 15 (one die of Facing 5). She went with the Set of 3's though, giving her a total of 23 (two dice of Facing 3)
Note that Jill initiated her Effort Dice this time. This is one of three ways that mechanics enter the game. Jack could have called for a roll as the GM, or the game's rules can prompt a roll.
Jack cracks the spine on his wonderful copy of Lone Wolf Fists, consulting the rules to determine what Nuke can achieve with her action. He wisely uses the index to locate the Senses skill and references the Effect Chart to determine the effectiveness of her roll.
"That's a pretty good result; your senses return no danger. You can hear some of the big bugs scuttling along far below you, but you're safe up here"
Jack is here performing one of the most important duties of the GM: being the rules referee. He consults the rules and using a combination of his good judgement and the mechanics, makes a call on what happens. The players commonly turn to the GM for such rulings; keep this book handy!
In this case, he's determining what effect the Senses skill has. There are seven skills which every character possesses:
• Power: Physical might and strength
• Endurance: Toughness, durability and stamina
• Agility: Speed, reflexes, balance, and grace
• Intellect: Raw brainpower; depth, breadth and speed of thought
• Senses: Earthly senses; sight, touch, taste, hearing, smelling
• Heart: Charm, persuasiveness, manners and force of personality
• Spirit: Enlightenment, inner peace, and mystical skill
When a character wants to push their limits, they take an action with one of these skills. The GM compares the result of the action to the skill's Effect Chart, which broadly describes what that Rank of capability with that skill can achieve.
Note that it wasn't necessary to roll anything to see the gorge earlier when Nuke climbed the scaffolding: both the climbing and the viewing were within the capabilities of a person, and there was no significant danger, risk or time constraint which would necessitate taking an action.
"Alright, free and clear!" Jill crows triumphantly "I'm going to pull the 2 and 5 into my Focus Slots; I might need a boost through that jump"
"It's a solid plan, and I endorse it" Jack muses
Nuke's Focus Slots allow her to hold some dice after she rolls. This represents her character's focus and mental discipline.
Typically, once you're finished taking an action, any additional dice are discarded. However, if your character has an unfilled Focus Slot, you may move one of the unused Effort Dice into the slot, storing it for later.
The die retains its Facing. In this case, Jill stores the 5 and the 2 in Nuke's two unfilled Focus Slots.
"I keep going; I want to get over this chasm so hard"
Jack chuckles "Okay point taken. It doesn't take you long to get there; it's easily a twenty-foot gap with a nauseating fall between. You see a few corroded metal ladders haphazardly tossed on the near side"
"So that's how that loser got across..." Jill sneers "I don't trust those ladders. I'm gonna jump!"
"You know what to do"
Jill does know; she rolls her Effort Dice again. "Booyah, two 5's; I'm adding my 5 from Focus to that and getting a thirty-freakin'-five. How's THAT for chasm jumping?" She pumps her fist in triumph
"You forgot something"
"What? OH RIGHT; I've got Agility Mastery! That means I get FOURTY-freakin'-five, fools!"
"That chasm never stood a chance"
Jill's character has a Mastery of Agility; this represents training to peak human capability in a Skill. A Mastery adds 1 Rank (+10) to every Action taken with the mastered skill. In this case, it boosts her impressive Rank 3 Agility action to a breathtaking Rank 4.
"The rest of your journey through the chasm is pretty long and largely uneventful. Since we're Montaging it, you've got the time to work on a Long-Term Project if you like"
"Hells to the yes I will; I'm gonna tinker with that magic battery the fortune teller gave me"
"The Prana battery? Sure, roll 'em"
Jill does so "What do I still need to fix it up?"
Jack consults his trusty notes again "Looks like you need a Rank 3 and 2 Intellect, and one Rank 1 Spirit"
"Rock on, I got a 21 for Intellect then and a 15 for Spirit. Almost there..."
Jill is engaging in a Long-Term Project here. These are tasks that require significant time, effort and work to bear fruit. Since they're so time-consuming, it's only possible to work on them during Montage scenes. They require multiple actions of different Skills and Ranks.
In this case, the Prana battery will be repaired when she achieves a Rank 2 and Rank 3 Intellect action in addition to a Rank 1 Spirit action. She's well on her way with her latest roll!
While Jill tucks in to the remaining nachos, Jack rolls some dice and consults his notes once more "Uh-oh"
"Uh-uh? What's uh-oh?"
"Looks like somebody's about to ruin your day"
Jill chokes down the last of her snack "But I hate that!"
"Sucks to be you, I guess"
"Gonna suck to be this fool in a hot second"
Jack is rolling for Orthogonal Content here. Content is just our fancy name for stuff in the game like places, bad guys, and treasure. There are three varieties, each accessed in different ways; Horizontal, which character get by exploring, Vertical, which they get by investigating, and Orthogonal, which crops up whenever it gets rolled. We'll spare you all the thorny details for the moment but suffice it to say that Jill's in for a tough time.
"Many fools, actually. Okay, let me set the scene: You've just emerged from the gorge, dusty but otherwise fine. The glistening weirdness of the city shimmers on the horizon, it's silver buildings blending with the mirror-sheen waters in the sparkling sunrise.
You're monkeying with your Prana battery and making some significant headway when you hear the sputtering roar of an engine approaching. Mounted on a dilapidated dune buggy are four waste-barbarian raiders. They're brandishing lead pipes and scrap-metal blades. They holler tribal war cries as they barrel down on you"
"They're want to fight, huh? They're about to regret THAT decision..."
"We'll see; time for a combat!"
Jack's setting the scene here, an important GM talent to master. This is just like in the beginning of the session: any time there's a radical change of scenery, you describe the new setting and orient the characters within it.
Now, Jack and Jill are about to enter an Action Scene. These are breakneck-paced scenes of danger and excitement! They're highly structured, with a formal action order that we'll guide you through next.
The gang of berserkers is a Group of adversaries; these collections of lesser foes act in tandem for greater power; they add together their Effort Dice into a single pool, making them function similarly to a single more powerful character.
Jack picks up four d10s for the barbarians "Okay Nuke, time to fight; roll 'em up"
Jill rolls her Effort dice: 2,3,3,6,9
"Okay run me through the initiative again, I remember its weird"
"That's a strange way of saying 'awesome'"
Jill exaggerates a sigh
"Okay so you bid Effort dice, whoever gets the highest initiative bid goes first"
"And... They can bid again, if I outbid them?"
"Nailed it"
"And I get to see what they roll, right?" Jill says, raising her eyebrow
"Oh, yes! Right..." Jack rolls his dice sheepishly: 1,2,3,7
"Who bids first?"
Jack eyes his result, clearly unsatisfied "GM bids first, but I'm going to have them pass on the first bid. They clearly need to save their Effort"
Jill moves her 9 triumphantly towards the center of the table "Tough tits, fellas, look's you're the fist-train to pound town" she gloats, seizing the opportunity to put her foes aboard the fist-train "They gonna bid now?"
"Nope; all aboard! Tooooot!"
Our players are entering a Combat here. In combat, time passes in Rounds, representing a few second to a few minutes of frantic fighting on all sides. Each round begins with an Effort die roll, just the same as earlier.
However, the single roll of the dice is used throughout the round; it's first used to determine Initiative, which is the order in which character's act.
This is done at the beginning of every round in an Initiative Bid; starting with the GM, every player bids whichever Effort dice they wish towards acting first. Once everyone has bid, players may, going in the same order, bid again, replacing their earlier bids.
Only the final bids count. it's possible to shuffle a lower bid back into your Effort pool and replace it with a higher bid. You can only bid up, not down.
Once everyone is done bidding, the actions order is set with the highest bidders going first, acting in order towards the lowest bidders. Effort dice from the final bid are removed from the character's Effort pools this Round.
Tied character roll a single d10 to determine who acts first among them with high rolls winning (re-roll ties until a victor emerges).
Once every character has taken their turn, the round concludes.
Note that all the dice are rolled openly; this gives every player, including the GM, complete tactical transparency of the character's combat capabilities.
Next, you'll see how this same pool of dice is used for both attack and defense.
"Okay Nuke, you're faster; what are you going to do?"
Jill pounds her knuckles together "Can I move without dice? I want to run up their stupid dune buggy and kick one of them in the teeth"
"Yeah you're staying on the same Battlefield, so that's free"
"Okay, I can do one thing with a single die, then after that I've got to use sets, right?"
"Yeah you've got it"
"Rock on; I'm going send my boot into the driver's jawbone with this here 16" She pushes the die facing 6 forward, signifying her attack
"Well, he'll defend with this 13" Jack says, pushing forward his 3 "So he takes 3 damage: He brings his pipe up and catches some of the force of your kick, but still flies off the buggy onto the sand"
Here we have an Attack and Defense exchange, as well as our first combat actions.
As the first actor, Nuke gets to move and attack before the barbarians.
Jill moves Nuke to the barbarians to launch her strike. This movement is within the same Battlefield (the place where the fight is occurring, typically describing an area about as big as a sports stadium). She could have moved into an adjacent Battlefield, or used her movement to climb, descend, or otherwise interact with the terrain within the Battlefield instead.
Simple, direct movement like this does not require any Effort dice; however, more demanding movements such as acrobatics or moving multiple Battlefields require Agility actions to accomplish.
Nuke also launches an Attack on the poor clods. Attacks require Effort dice; in this case, Jill uses her 6-Facing die to strike, generating a result of 16. Note that she's using only a single die to act; this is allowed only once per combat round.
The barbarians Defend with their 3-Facing die, resulting in a defense of 13. A defense subtracts from the attack's total; Nuke's 16 result is reduced by their 13 defense, for a net of 3.
Any positive number remaining after all defenses is applied as Damage to the foe. Damage is applied to the next empty Health Box a character possesses; each box can receive 10 damage before it is filled. If all boxes are filled, a character is vanquished, which means defeated though not necessarily killed. In this case, the barbarians take 3 damage.
Note that Jack could have chosen a better defense; he could have used the 7-Facing die, which would have completely defended against the attack with a result of 17
Further note that Jack and Jill both describe their actions in a fun, action-oriented way during this exchange. This greatly adds to the entertainment of the game and links their use of mechanics with actions in the Shared Imagined space.
"Okay, I still have dice left; I want to use my Set here..." Jill pushes forward her two 3-Facing dice "...To punch another one's head through the steering column"
Jack exaggerates a wince of agony "Woof, 23 huh? He'll throw his hands up to defend with a 12" He removes the 2-Facing die from his pool "But that's still 11 damage; you smash his head right into that steering column and he goes limp"
"That's what you get for screwing with me!" She gloats, shooting their remaining dice the bird
Here Jill is using a Bonus Action to attack a second time. After your single 1-die action, you make take Bonus Actions with any matching Sets of 2 dice or more. In this case, she's using her Set of two 3-Facing dice to form a 23.
Something else important happens this attack; the Group takes ten or more total damage. This is enough to fill a Health Box. When a Health Box is filled, it has special consequences; in this case, they lose a member to damage, and he will no longer contribute his Effort Die to future rolls. Ouch!
"I'm not done; I'm going to start charging up my Fire Disciple Motion so I can burn these fools next round" Jill marks a line through one of her Focus Slots with a pencil
"Wait, how many Prana do I have?" Jill looks at an empty spot on her sheet "Oops. I forgot that part"
Jack smack his forehead "D'oh! I forgot too. Well, it's ten Prana per open Chakra; you Slumbering ones have to get Awakened during the round" He hands Jill ten glass beads to represent her character's magical energy
"I'm going to spend them all! It needs 11 to activate, so that means I only need one more next round; correct?"
Jack nods sagely "You learned well from that battle with the spider demon last time. Are you finished?"
"Yeah, I'm done. Go ahead, punks!"
Jill's charging a Technique here. Techniques are a character's magical martial arts moves. They're powered by Prana, a mystical energy that character's channel through nodes in their bodies called Chakra.
Every Chakra's Pool of Prana begins at 10 if it's Open, or 0 if it's Closed or Slumbering.
To use a Technique, you spend Prana from your Prana Pools. Because Prana is spent and re-fills constantly through a combat, it is generally represented by dice, beads, or tokens. Simply remove spent Prana tokens as you power a Technique.
If you can't afford to spend the entire Prana cost in a single round, you can Charge the Technique as Nuke is doing. You "store" the Technique and all the saved Prana in one of your Focus Slots. Once you've spent enough Prana to cover the cost of the Technique, you can unleash it at any time thereafter.
If you release the Technique from your Focus Slot without using it (either because you changed your mind or because you haven't covered its cost) it and all the stored Prana are lost
Note in this example that the players made a mistake; they forgot to fill up Nuke's Prana pool at the start of the combat. Mistakes like this occasionally happen; it's ok! Do your best to correct them and carry on having fun.
Further note we haven't told you what a Techniques actually does; we'll tell you all about them when Nuke unleashes this one in a little bit!
Now that Jill has ceded her turn, the barbarians get to act
"The remaining three barbarians are going to try to wreck you" says Jack, considering his remaining Effort dice carefully
"Oh bring it"
Jack pushes forward a 1-Facing Die "They're going to swing wide at you with this 11" he pushes forward the 1-Facing die
"Not this time!" grins Jill, pushing forward her 2-Facing die "That's twelve to your eleven; no damage from that! I'll bat his pitiful attack aside easily"
"True... But now you're out of dice"
"Uh-oh"
"Uh-oh is correct; it's time to bring the pain" Jack points to his 7-Facing die "This guy gets some revenge for his friend, smashing you in the skull with a lead pipe"
"Ugh...."
"For seventeen total damage"
"Argh!" Jill records the damage in her health boxes in pencil "Okay that fills up one of my Health Boxes with damage, and there's seven damage in the next one. That's.... Bad, right?"
Jack nods his head grimly "Oh yeah, you're going to take a Physical Imbalance from that. That bash jostled your optic nerves, so you're blinded"
Jill groans; things just got serious!
Jill didn't spend her Effort dice very carefully this round; the barbarians were able to make an attack against Nuke when she had no dice to defend. This means that she took all 17 damage from their strike; yowch!
Because she's taken more than ten damage, one of her Health Boxes is now filled. When a powerful character like Nuke fills a Health Box, they take a lingering injury called an Imbalance.
This one is a Physical Imbalance, affecting the body. There are Emotional and even Spiritual Imbalances representing more esoteric injuries.
Imbalances force characters to choose between a Mechanical Penalty (which removes Effort Dice, seal Focus Slots, or closes Chakra so that they can't be used for Prana) or a Dramatic Penalty, which forbids or requires certain additions to the player's actions.
Players choose which penalty will apply to their character at the beginning of a round, before Effort Dice are rolled. Whenever the Imbalance is first created, the character must take the Dramatic Penalty for the remainder of the round. Looks like Nuke's blind for now.
The Rank of the Imbalance determine how powerful a penalty it applies; Every Rank can remove 1 Effort die, and every Even-Numbered Rank can either seal a Focus Slot or close a Chakra.
Rank can be increased each time a character fills a Health Box with damage. The attacker chooses which Imbalance to increase, or they can create a new Imbalance. A character can have a total of 3 unique Imbalances in an given category (Physical, Social, and Mental) at once, for a grand total of 9 unique Imbalances.
Finally, damage creates and increases Physical Imbalances only; it can't create or increase Spiritual or Emotional Imbalances. That requires more skillful manipulation!
"Alright, end of the round! Go ahead and recover some Prana"
Jill puts two glass beads on her sheet, over the Chakra entry "Just wait 'til next round, you jerks..."
Jill is recovering Prana from her Chakra here. At the end of the round, every open Chakra adds its Recovery stat in Prana back into its Pool. This way, characters can continue drawing from their wellsprings of magic in subsequent rounds.
Open Chakra have a Recovery value of 2.
"New round! So, are you going to be blind, or do you want to fork over an Effort die?"
Jill bites her lip, considering her options "I'm going with blindness; I don't need to see to kill these jerks"
"Actually, you know what? Nuke shouts that at them with blood streaming into her eyes!"
Jack purses his lips in appreciation of this bit of roleplaying "That's pretty awesome, Jill"
Jill is opting to take the Dramatic Penalty here. This means that she can't describe her character's actions with sight, and she's must describe them in terms of her sightlessness. If she violates these criteria, the GM can veto her proposed action or make her revise it.
Jill rolls her Effort dice, getting 1,3,4,4,8
The barbarians only roll 3 this round, as one of their member's head has been driven into a steering column, getting 0,5,6
"This time, the punks are bidding their 10 for Initiative" Jack boasts, picking up his 0-Facing die and waving it tauntingly at Jill.
"You know what? I'm going to stagger and waver around on this speeding vehicle; I'm too disoriented form the head trauma to seize the initiative
Jack smiles unconsciously; he's really enjoying Jill's roleplaying "Well they'll seize it then, but bravo for the entertaining description"
Jill pantomimes blood spurting out of an exaggerated headwound with manic drama, eliciting a chuckle from her GM
"The remaining punks slam on the breaks, taking advantage of your loss of balance to swing their pipes into your ribcage" He pushes forward both the 5 and 6-Facing dice "That's 15 and 16"
Jill sneers at the result "Okay disoriented doesn't mean helpless, assholes!" She pushes forward two dice of her own; the 3 and 8-Facing "Nuke leans into her own inertia and totally dodges that 16 with an 18; she'll use the 13 roll with the impact of that second one, so that's 2 damage"
"Not quite your tenth huh?"
"Nope! Still got 1 left!" Jill raises her index finger is mock triumph "Ouch!"
"Alright hero; they're spent. It's your turn"
Jill cracks her knuckles and grins maniacally
Jill is roleplaying into her Imbalance here. Whenever a player chooses the Dramatic Imbalance, their actions must reflect their impairment and damage.
The GM determines if a character's description qualifies; Jill's hammy performance was both fitting and entertaining, so Jack feels they qualify.
Note that Jill refused an advantage for which she qualified; this isn't strictly necessary, but it goes a long way to convincing a GM of your sincerity!
Further note that Jill's now taken an additional 2 damage from the weaker strike. With her previous 7 damage in this Health Box, she's at a precarious total of 9 damage; one away from worsening her Imbalance!
"Okay, I'm lining up my ducks this round; these ducks are gonna be linear" Jill says, emphasizing the mallard's planar nature with by pointing her knife-straight palms at Jack
Jack, helpless before her Cartesian fowl, merely holds up his hands in a defensive gesture
"I'm using my 24 to Awaken my Chakra" She marks her Slumbering Chakra to indicate this "That gets me 4 Prana, right?"
"Well..." Jack drawls, casually flipping through his rulebook to look up the relevant rules "It says here that the Rank of your action, which is 2, determines the Recovery, and the Facing is how much it fills with at the end of the round. So yes, you'll get 4 more Prana then"
"Just in case this next move doesn't obliterate these resilient bastards...." Jill mutters, drumming her fingers together
Jill is Awakening Nuke's Slumbering Chakra here. This requires a spirit action of at least Rank 2; Nuke's set of 4-Facing dice fit the bill nicely.
A newly-Awakened Chakra's Recovery is equal to the Rank of the action that awakened it; 2, in this case. Its Pool is equal to five times it's Recovery. This Chakra's pool will therefore be 10, meaning it can hold up to 10 Prana at once.
When a Slumbering Chakra is Awakened, it fills with Prana at the end of the round (i.e. when the other chakra Recover). The number of Prana it acquires is equal to the Facing of the Set that Awoke it.
In this case, Jill's dice had Facing 4, so her Chakra will acquire 4 Prana at the end of the round.
"Time to burn you sons of bitches!" Jill roars as Nuke "I'm spending the last Prana on my Technique; these jokers are gonna fry!"
Jack arches his eyebrows "Going to attack blind?"
Jill nods hungrily "Nuke is past caring about collateral damage and so am I! I'll swing my arms in a wide arc and have the fire shoot out everywhere!" She makes a Fwoosh sound effect to help paint the picture
She picks up her 8 "I'm adding this to my Fire Disciple Motion and blasting everything in the vicinity with a 38!"
Jack shakes his head "And they take all of it, huh? Well they've only got about 20 health left, so they're toast"
Jill is using her charged Technique here. Techniques are a character's mystical martial arts moves. They consist of the following parts:
Cost: how much Prana is required to use it.
Rank: A Technique creates Effort Dice equal to its Rank; each Rank is an additional die.
Facing: Which Facings may be chosen for the dice created by the Technique. All created dice have the same Facing.
The dice generated by a Technique function like other Effort dice; they can be combined with other dice to make larger Sets, and if they provide 2 or more dice they can be used as a bonus action.
Power: Describes what powerful effects the Technique creates when activated. Sometimes there are numerous Powers to choose from; the text of the Power will describe its effects.
Techniques may have Keywords that describe how they're used. The three most common are Offensive techniques which may only be used to attack, Defensive ones that can only defend, and Versatile techniques which may be used to attack or defend.
Nuke's Technique, the Fire Disciple Motion, generates a Rank-2 effect. It carries the Offensive keyword, so it must be used to make an attack. The dice's Facings may be anything between 4-9; in this case, Nuke is combining them with her 8-Facing die, creating a total of 38 (3 Dice, all Facing 8)
"Okay, so they're beaten, but are they dead?" Jack queries, eyebrow arched mysteriously
She blinks "I'm missing something"
"Well, if you spare them, then you could almost certainly pound some information out of them. It's up to you if you want to pull your fire-punches a little"
Jill considers this, looking over her sheet "Well, I would... But my Dharma is urging me to spill their blood!" She points at a section of her sheet "See? Ruthless Tiger; I get Kharma every time I demonstrate my cruelty! Bwahaha!"
Jack pantomimes shock "Oh noes! You're killings my favorite NPCs! What ever will happen to their elaborate backstories and my well-plotted game?"
"They're gonna BURN!" Jill snarls, cupping her hands in emulation of a kung-fu super move "Fwooosh! Take that, plot hooks!"
Jack smiles and hands her a poker chip "Here's your Kharma, you merciless animal. I hope you spend it on a conscious"
"Yeah not likely" she beams
Jill is gaining Kharma from her Dharmas here. A Dharma is a character's destiny, and when they act in accord with (or foolishly oppose) their destiny, it grants them Kharma.
Kharma is the insight, experience and realization of destiny that allows a character to surpass their limitations and grow more powerful. It's accrued by a character and spent to learn new Techniques.
Dharma has a set of Triggers that tell the player how to act to follow or fight their Dharma. To "hit the trigger", a player makes a declaration of what they're doing (as Jill does in the example above) and this is either accepted, amended, or vetoed by the GM. If it's accepted (with or without amendment) then the player receives Kharma.
Each Dharma may only be triggered once per scene. Hitting a trigger rewards the player a single point of Kharma. To get more Kharma, a player must take more Dharmas!
Thankfully, there are temporary or Minor Dharmas that characters can acquire through play, such as entangling themselves with an organization or a quest. These often have larger Kharmic rewards when completed, but then resolve and expire.
...
This concludes the Example of Play. If you're learning how to be a GM, then you'll want to review the Rules Section next. For Players, you now have enough knowledge to head over to the Character Creation section to start making your very own PC!
(I'll format it for readability in a tic, I just wanted to post it real quick prior to that)
Quote from: Azraele;1051816I feel like flying knee opens up your crotch to potential shredding by a gigantic demon. I'd way rather have my arm eaten off than my groin, but tastes differ in this regard (http://badwebcomicswiki.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Mamabliss).
Of course, the punch opens your liver, not just your hand;).
But who am I to judge? The demon shall test your kung-fu, not me:D!
Quote from: DeadUematsu;1051818Fist of the North Star? Tables to generate on-road situations, troubled towns, mutated looks, villainous kung fu predators, and combat set-pieces is in order. If you want a long-term campaign, you will want to provide badass demographics to give GMs and players a roadmap of whose ass to kick to become the baddest dude in a X-mile radius.
Hell yeah:)!
Quote from: Azraele;1051828What makes fights fun in RPGs, specifically kung-fu fights? As a guy who was horribly disappointed in EX3's "martial arts" "fighting" "mechanics", I'm doing my damndest to make fighting mechanics that are
1) Actual mechanics for a fight
2) Easy to learn for newbie players/GMS
3) Fun
4) Deep enough to be a true strategic challenge worth investing your time and energy in
What games do that? What about combat mechanics makes them any of those things? What are some things you love/hate about fights in RPGs? What issues do you see arising trying to hit all those goals?
OK, let's focus on this.
Assume I haven't read the previous version (right). What makes the game an actual strategic challenge:d?
Quote from: JeremyR;1051847I don't generally watch anime so I have no idea of anything you're referring to, but I am a big fan of kung fu movies, particularly those by the Shaw Brothers. The difference is that movies were choreographed and performed by people who had deep knowledge of kung fu and martial arts. The very nature of anime means that it's not performed by actual martial artists and probably not even choreographed.
You might want to read Holyland;).
Quote from: Azraele;1051942Yeah and there's nothing like this that really scratches my itch for it. The last FotNS game that actually existed is like twenty years old and exclusively available in Italian; games like *Fight!* and it's ilk are woefully under-developed. EX3 is a gigantic mess.
Literally the only way I could play this game was to design it. So, here we are. Soon, we shall WATA together.
Wait, what's so undevelopped about Fight! the Fighting Game RPG? I mean, it's not meant to emulate FotNS, because it's emulating
fighting games...but it could come reasonably close.
Quote from: AsenRG;1051979Of course, the punch opens your liver, not just your hand;).
But who am I to judge? The demon shall test your kung-fu, not me:D!
NOW you tell me
(Horrific gore!)
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Quote from: AsenRG;1051979OK, let's focus on this.
Assume I haven't read the previous version (right). What makes the game an actual strategic challenge:d?
Hmm, this is difficult to answer
not because
I don't know, but because I don't really have a vocabulary for explaining what makes
anything a strategic challenge
There's this
thing that my game does, which games I love do. Games like Risk, or Magic the Gathering, or even Settlers of Catan:
Like in Risk, when you've got enemies on more than one front, and you've got to decide between viable attacks and your long-term strategy...
Like in Magic, where you're playing a counterspell deck and you've got to choose between spending your mana on card draw or saving it to counter the foe's cards...
Like in Catan, where you have several build options and you've got to decide if it's better to build a new town or build a good town into a city...
I'm going to term that
Strategically Viable Options. Essentially, you can choose between multiple options to "answer" any strategic "question", and there's a good argument for many of them.
To contrast, Exalted 2nd edition really struggled with this. You
had to have a perfect defense combo, you
had to stunt on each action, you were essentially a chump if you didn't play a Solar, there were clearly superior weapon options, turning all the rest into traps...
(Is it good form to define something by what it
isn't?)
Like, when you roll your dice on your turn, there are a lot of uses for the results. You can do a lot of attacks, or turtle up into defense, or split them, or use your skills, etc. etc. And all of that stuff can win you fights. There are a lot of ways to win a fight, and your strategic challenge is in choosing the one(s) that are most advantageous for
this specific fight, in
these specific circumstances.
That's what I'm doing here with "strategic challenge".
Quote from: AsenRG;1051979Wait, what's so undevelopped about Fight! the Fighting Game RPG? I mean, it's not meant to emulate FotNS, because it's emulating fighting games...but it could come reasonably close.
That's the thing; it's emulating something
that is already an emulation. I can play Darkstalkers to scratch the itch that Fight! is trying to, and that's a load more convenient and satisfying.
It's also got a similar problem to Weapons of the Gods, in that it's basically just a fighting engine (what my wife would call a "punching game"). It's a really good engine, too! But that's it; I want to
adventure in my RPGs, and you simply need more than combat mechanics for that.
Hence "under-developed". Maybe "of far too limited a scope for what I want" is more precise (Fight!
is super developed for what it sets out to do, it just doesn't set out to do a whole lot)
Hey mate,
Wow... You've done a lot more work on this then I thought. I originally thinking it was just an idea floating around. Cool!
I've been checking out the skill and powers. I like what I'm seeing so far! The powers (or mutations) are definitely the right vibe for what I'd want to see in a 90s Manga game. Not only the cool factor, but with a lot of 'ewww' to emphasise, not only the horror but its demonic (and eastern weirdness) origins.
I see you've worked in the scalability too (with the ranking system). It reminded me a wee bit of Aberrant in terms of scale. So now we've got the ability to have enemies like the Mo fo Chojin. And can have Amano smashing that sky scraper. Nice! :)
As I said you got a great start with the lore already, but reading further. The Shadow Vampires sound cool. I really like the inclusion of eastern style Vamps. They'd make cool player or villains. Plus, they are way cooler than the usual western eco tropes (with the exception of those beauties 'The Sabbat').
If I were you, I'd consider taking some of the more esoteric powers from Vampire the Masquerade and reworking them to fit in with your game. Powers like, Thanotosis, Protean, Obtenebration and especially vicissitude. Nice and squiffy.... And pretty scary and unusual.
That's great that humans are in the city... As that really opens up the game. There are a host of reasons they could be there. As you said, being bread for the vamps. Yum yum!
Of course they could easily be lured in, by the demons with all that magic they possess. The demons could simply hunt them down and bring them in as well. Which would be cool opportunity to get the players involved and see these demons unclose before they venture into the city.
Personally, I'd also look at the old Mortal Combat games - just for some lore and maybe OTT characters. I quite like the whole shadow realm. Not the movies though as they were dross!
I think the different hells thing opens up a lot of possibilities as well as factions that could have some great in fighting and maybe some interesting infiltration type games too.
There are definitely some horror flicks, that you might want to have a gander at (if you've not seen them). Especially for that weird Jap body horror.
Cronnenberg's 'The Brood' is a Kimon Devil right there! A female mutant that gives birth to small fucked up avatars of herself. She controls them with her emotions. Obviously you'd make her more powerful to suit the game.
Cronnenberg's Scanners is another one of using horrific psychic powers.
I presume you've seen Urotsukidoji? Bar the tits and tentacles... This movie is a gold mine.
With the Martial arts, it sounds like you're on the right track. By using X move and combining it with some kind of power (if special). Or you could also have a block of attacks representing one of those typical OTT flurries that are of then seen in FotNS.
You could have some kind of mana (or endurance mechanic) to stop people burning through their powers too easily. Although, it depends on how powerful they are.
Also, how assessable with this city be? I presume the regular military have tried to invade or nuke it? So is it shielded some how and can only be open with magic?
Yeah, I totally get that. When you want to play a game and it doesn't exist - just make it!!
Your art is really good BTW, I went to the link in your signature. Once I get my fiscal ducks in a row, remind me to PM you about doing some art for the game, if you're up to it. I feel like you'd be a good guy to add some grisly, creepy stuff to the art selection.
Quote from: The Exploited.;1052094Hey mate,
Wow... You've done a lot more work on this then I thought. I originally thinking it was just an idea floating around. Cool!
I've been checking out the skill and powers. I like what I'm seeing so far! The powers (or mutations) are definitely the right vibe for what I'd want to see in a 90s Manga game. Not only the cool factor, but with a lot of 'ewww' to emphasise, not only the horror but its demonic (and eastern weirdness) origins.
I see you've worked in the scalability too (with the ranking system). It reminded me a wee bit of Aberrant in terms of scale. So now we've got the ability to have enemies like the Mo fo Chojin. And can have Amano smashing that sky scraper. Nice! :)
Thanks. I've been busting my ass on it. Playtesting is gonna tell whether all the building-smashing works as intended.
God I hope so, I really want people punching their enemies through skyscrapers which collapse and bury them in rubble
I really like the squick from 90's anime; I want to fill the environments with all variety of hideous monsters and stomach-churning horror. That reminds me, I need to get back to those monster rules...
Quote from: The Exploited.;1052094As I said you got a great start with the lore already, but reading further. The Shadow Vampires sound cool. I really like the inclusion of eastern style Vamps. They'd make cool player or villains. Plus, they are way cooler than the usual western eco tropes (with the exception of those beauties 'The Sabbat').
If I were you, I'd consider taking some of the more esoteric powers from Vampire the Masquerade and reworking them to fit in with your game. Powers like, Thanotosis, Protean, Obtenebration and especially vicissitude. Nice and squiffy.... And pretty scary and unusual.
They're not necessarily vampires, just bad guys with evil kung-fu from hell. Although now that you mention it, I really should add "Chi Vampire" to the mutations list.
Maybe put some Hopping Vampires in there too...
I'd feel bad straight-up stealing from another game. Now, stealing from source material? I could see, say, Uzumaki-like stuff (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzumaki) showing up...
Quote from: The Exploited.;1052094That's great that humans are in the city... As that really opens up the game. There are a host of reasons they could be there. As you said, being bread for the vamps. Yum yum!
Of course they could easily be lured in, by the demons with all that magic they possess. The demons could simply hunt them down and bring them in as well. Which would be cool opportunity to get the players involved and see these demons unclose before they venture into the city.
"Somebody was kidnapped and now you've got to go save them" is literally the plot of Demon City Shinjuku. I'd be a fool to throw that out, a fool!
Just last night I was working on some chunks of Suicide Heaven to put in the game. If I'm, facing insomnia again tonight, I'll tucker myself out by writing it up in a more-or-less comprehensible form for you enjoyment.
Quote from: The Exploited.;1052094Personally, I'd also look at the old Mortal Combat games - just for some lore and maybe OTT characters. I quite like the whole shadow realm. Not the movies though as they were dross!
I think the different hells thing opens up a lot of possibilities as well as factions that could have some great in fighting and maybe some interesting infiltration type games too.
Well remember, our demon city Suicide Heaven is but one small chunk of our post-apocalypse map:
Spoiler
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See that city on the lower left-hand side of the map, bordering the ocean? That's Suicide Heaven. In the game, it'll get its own map, about the size of your standard megadungeon. Like so(ish) MSPAINT POWERS GO:
Spoiler
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And each one of those keyed sections will get its own breakdown too (like that "3" up there would look like this):
Spoiler
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2755[/ATTACH]
The whole setting is getting maps like that.
So, as you can imagine, I'll be needing vast swathes of good ideas. Warring hell factions sound like great map-stuffers; plenty of content to mine there!
Quote from: The Exploited.;1052094There are definitely some horror flicks, that you might want to have a gander at (if you've not seen them). Especially for that weird Jap(anese) body horror.
Cronnenberg's 'The Brood' is a Kimon Devil right there! A female mutant that gives birth to small fucked up avatars of herself. She controls them with her emotions. Obviously you'd make her more powerful to suit the game.
Cronnenberg's Scanners is another one of using horrific psychic powers.
I presume you've seen Urotsukidoji? Bar the tits and tentacles... This movie is a gold mine.
I like Cronenberg's work; I own eXistenz, Dead Ringers, Scanners, and Videodrome and I've seen Slither. Somehow I missed The Brood, so thanks for the recommendation!
I'm familiar with the works of Junji Ito (stuff from Uzumaki and the Enigma of Amigara Fault are showing up in some form in the game) but I'd never heard of Urotsukidoji, so thanks again! Now that mind-melter is going to inspire some terrifying game content...
Quote from: The Exploited.;1052094With the Martial arts, it sounds like you're on the right track. By using X move and combining it with some kind of power (if special). Or you could also have a block of attacks representing one of those typical OTT flurries that are of then seen in FotNS.
You could have some kind of mana (or endurance mechanic) to stop people burning through their powers too easily. Although, it depends on how powerful they are.
Yeah, I'm actually working on the magic resource rules right now. The games that inspired this used "chi" and Exalted uses "essence" and this game uses "Prana". You've got to power your magic kung-fu moves by spending it, and they basically more your sets bigger or give you more attacks.
And a bunch of other crazy stuff too, because it's freaking magical kung-fu! You've got to something fun with it!
Quote from: The Exploited.;1052094Also, how assessable with this city be? I presume the regular military have tried to invade or nuke it? So is it shielded some how and can only be open with magic?
Well I mean, it's the post-apocalypse; I figure you can just walk in to the hell-city.
Although there are rules for piloting and/or punching tanks, so it's not out of the question to have tanks fighting the forces of hell.
The really ridiculous nuclear-weapon equivalent stuff (and actual nuclear weapons worshipped as gods) are modellable within the framework of the rules. Although it's probably less fun to atomize a section of the demon city than to adventure in it, I don't think that's a bad late-game thing to happen.
Quote from: The Exploited.;1052094Yeah, I totally get that. When you want to play a game and it doesn't exist - just make it!!
Your enthusiasm fuels me!
Thanks for your kind words re. my art btw. :)
Yep! I hear that. Punching monsters through skyscrapers and having immense energy discharges is where it's at (for the genre). And basically, as much collateral damage as possible! Definitely count me in as a play tester!
The Uzmakai sound cool. I love the idea of 'spirals' being used as some kind of old arcane curse. Very Lovecraftian or the Unknown Armies RPG.
Cool... Those hopping vamps are scary bastards. I do like the Japanese spirits. And you gott'a get some of those split mouthed demon women in there - And basically make them unpredictable or your own take. The whole premise is ripe for horror but with that epic cinematic scale.
Nothing wrong with borrowing material from another game, everyone does it. Just tweak it a little! ;)
There's so much you could do... To get human in there. Be fun just having their spirits going in there while the sleep a land of exquisite nightmares (if you wanted to go all dreamlands). Maybe the demons can start controlling them while their spirits reside in the 'city'. You wake up in the morning to find a collection of severed heads at the bottom of your bed.
Of course bad poeple could want to go into the city and could make demonic acts as well. Sorry, I'm just thinking out loud here.
I like what you are doing with the maps (and how your breaking them up)! That will be a great resource for a GM.
I've not heard of the Junji stuff mate to be honest, so I'll have to check it out. Urotsukidoji is a must though. Um... Just don't mind some of the weird... well... weird bits (to say it gently). It's a very solid idea beyond that. The 'Makai' are a great source of demonic goodness. :)
Hah... Okay, that's clearer for me now. So you can 'walk in' but I'll bet many don't....
Cheers! Well, your enthusiasm is fueling mine. Okay, that's getting weird now. ;)
Later!
Quote from: Azraele;1052377I'm familiar with the works of Junji Ito (stuff from Uzumaki and the Enigma of Amigara Fault are showing up in some form in the game) but I'd never heard of Urotsukidoji, so thanks again! Now that mind-melter is going to inspire some terrifying game content...
Fair warning: Urotsukidoji is famous as the work which popularized the "tentacle rape" trope.
Just so you know at what, exactly, you're going to look ;)
Quote from: Luca;1052634Fair warning: Urotsukidoji is famous as the work which popularized the "tentacle rape" trope.
Just so you know at what, exactly, you're going to look ;)
Yeah... It's not exactly kid's film. I'm not mad on Hentai at all. But beyond that I think it's a solid film. However, I think Azraele can take it if he's a Cronenberg fan.
Quote from: Azraele;1051848Also, and I've devoted significant thought to this: I'm unsure what elements of wuxia combat are translatable into game mechanics. One of the strengths of say, D&D combat is that it is attempting to simulate situations that happen in reality (like, you can make a shieldwall or poke somebody with a spear or get into a wedge formation or a phalanx or...). Wuxia is heavily stylized, but that's for the benefit of an audience, making it less strategic and more purely visual.
I'd disagree:).
D&D doesn't deal with reality at high levels. When using what's basically a flamethrower is no longer your most powerful option, and you're bending time and space, you're far, far beyond reality.
You actually should avoid going that far (no wuxia move I know of has influenced time;)).
QuoteLike, how do you translate that style outside of the aforementioned storygame mechanics? "Oh your description was super cool, have more dice!" is as close as I've ever seen that done (Exalted did this with Stunt dice) but that eventually turned into such a tactically essential element of combat that it caused arguments at the table.
If I was making it? Well, option one: look at LotW, find a way to do the same with lighter mechanic that don't make me dread the idea of multiple masters duking it out:D! Because it was doing everything right. It's just that the "everything" was a whole damn lot:p!
Option two, use a very simple and stable system, a la BRP/Flashing Blades/Traveller, but have rules determining when you can activate a higher level of your kung-fu, or different kinds of kung-fu at once (somewhat like Spellbound Kingdoms). Because if you do, you trump the guy who hasn't managed it (like with Masteries in HQ2, though I was actually thinking abut the skill levels in Flashing Blades).
However, even if you don't manage to pull a trump card, you can still win by defeating the enemy in the normal combat system.
Now, if I was doing it, I'd do it differently, no doubt. But my thoughts on the matter still haven't crystalised enough to be presented in a legible manner...
Quote from: Azraele;1052090Hmm, this is difficult to answer not because I don't know, but because I don't really have a vocabulary for explaining what makes anything a strategic challenge
There's this thing that my game does, which games I love do. Games like Risk, or Magic the Gathering, or even Settlers of Catan:
Like in Risk, when you've got enemies on more than one front, and you've got to decide between viable attacks and your long-term strategy...
Like in Magic, where you're playing a counterspell deck and you've got to choose between spending your mana on card draw or saving it to counter the foe's cards...
Like in Catan, where you have several build options and you've got to decide if it's better to build a new town or build a good town into a city...
I'm going to term that Strategically Viable Options. Essentially, you can choose between multiple options to "answer" any strategic "question", and there's a good argument for many of them.
Like, when you roll your dice on your turn, there are a lot of uses for the results. You can do a lot of attacks, or turtle up into defense, or split them, or use your skills, etc. etc. And all of that stuff can win you fights. There are a lot of ways to win a fight, and your strategic challenge is in choosing the one(s) that are most advantageous for this specific fight, in these specific circumstances.
That's what I'm doing here with "strategic challenge".
OK, now tell us which elements of your system contribute to making multiple options viable.
What prevents the player from creating a one-trick pony and always winning with the same attack;)?
QuoteThat's the thing; it's emulating something that is already an emulation. I can play Darkstalkers to scratch the itch that Fight! is trying to, and that's a load more convenient and satisfying.
That depends on whether you see fighting games as emulation of wuxia for console gaming, or as their own thing,
ne? For the record, I can see arguments in favour of either position...and in the end it's all in the eyes of the beholders (the people at the table).
Because Fight! clearly doesn't see fighting games as emulation, and it's treating it as its own thing. If you don't share this opinion, yes, it's not the game for you.
QuoteIt's also got a similar problem to Weapons of the Gods, in that it's basically just a fighting engine (what my wife would call a "punching game"). It's a really good engine, too! But that's it; I want to adventure in my RPGs, and you simply need more than combat mechanics for that.
Do you, really;)?
Or rather,
how much mechanics do you need:p?
I mean, mechanics can be fun in and of themselves. But it doesn't make them necessary.
Quote from: Luca;1052634Fair warning: Urotsukidoji is famous as the work which popularized the "tentacle rape" trope.
Just so you know at what, exactly, you're going to look ;)
Quote from: The Exploited.;1052657Yeah... It's not exactly kid's film. I'm not mad on Hentai at all. But beyond that I think it's a solid film. However, I think Azraele can take it if he's a Cronenberg fan.
I appreciate the warning, but you assessment is correct; I can handle this kind of stuff.
@Asen: I'm not sure how to answer your post? You're literally free to download my game and read the blog where I explain, in great detail, all the options available to characters and how that creates a rich and varied strategic landscape. Here's the early playtest (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/244258/Tian-Shang-Lone-Wolf-Fists-Eyebleed-playtest-version), my blog is linked here (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com), and here's a playtest done by the great ImprovGM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrr6nXG54O4&list=PLaD16z1FQGeIKdE_CI8L66Ng3OesR_swJ&index=12&t=4068s) if you're not in a reading mood.
Edit: You know, I think I figured out where we're getting our wires crossed after all. Since I'm up late anyway, I decided to do two things, one of which was write you a proper reply
I'll leave the other thing to your imagination
[video=youtube;LpgRE8cbVpc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpgRE8cbVpc[/youtube]
Quote from: AsenRG;1052675I'd disagree:).
D&D doesn't deal with reality at high levels. When using what's basically a flamethrower is no longer your most powerful option, and you're bending time and space, you're far, far beyond reality.
You actually should avoid going that far (no wuxia move I know of has influenced time;)).
My D&D doesn't go past level 14 buddy. Although fun fact: I realized as I was writing this game that yeah, I was basically doing another go at the epic level handbook from 3rd edition. Oops.
It's not going to be possible for you to understand what I'm talking about with stuff like the Shared Mindspace and Tactical Infinity if you don't know how good D&D has been since it's inception. Here's some knowledge to help you out with that:
Zack S> and John Wick talk about the Shared Mindspace (http://johnwickpresents.com/podcast/conversations-with-john/conversations-with-john-zak-s/)
Guide to how Grognards think (http://www.grey-elf.com/philotomy.pdf)
And also almost anything Pundit says on the matter is pretty accurate too. He makes some videos, I'm told. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t5I0MqaYNc&t=552s)
Quote from: AsenRG;1052675If I was making it? Well, option one: look at LotW, find a way to do the same with lighter mechanic that don't make me dread the idea of multiple masters duking it out:D! Because it was doing everything right. It's just that the "everything" was a whole damn lot:p!
Even Arik Ten Broeke, one of the key designers of that game, has told me that he didn't feel it did "everything right". So I'm going to agree to disagree with you on that one.
Although, if you want "LotW light", it's what I was initially working on. I'd highly recommend checking out the half-burnt manual by my pal Zechstyr: (http://wulinlegends.pbworks.com/w/file/fetch/100840843/HalfBurntManual_FINAL.pdf) not only is it approved by the designers of the game, but he was working with us when we first started work on "Wulin Light" and he's a fucking genius.
Quote from: AsenRG;1052675Option two, use a very simple and stable system, a la BRP/Flashing Blades/Traveller, but have rules determining when you can activate a higher level of your kung-fu, or different kinds of kung-fu at once (somewhat like Spellbound Kingdoms). Because if you do, you trump the guy who hasn't managed it (like with Masteries in HQ2, though I was actually thinking abut the skill levels in Flashing Blades).
However, even if you don't manage to pull a trump card, you can still win by defeating the enemy in the normal combat system.
Now, if I was doing it, I'd do it differently, no doubt. But my thoughts on the matter still haven't crystalised enough to be presented in a legible manner...
Yeah well... I'm a big fan of talking about things that exist outside of my own head. A lot of people talk a big game but can't design their way out of a damp bag of popcorn.
If you want to write down your own system ideas and post them up, I'll be happy to check them out and give you my thoughts. It sounds like you'd take it in a different direction, but that's cool. Wuxia is a big genre, there's room for lots of interpretations.
Quote from: AsenRG;1052675OK, now tell us which elements of your system contribute to making multiple options viable.
You're putting up some pretty vague goalposts there. If there's more than one way to strategically approach a situation, any of which is viable (in that it has some chance of success), then you're describing almost everything.
Take a house, for instance. You might say the "best" option for entering it is opening the front door, but you could reasonably go around the back door, or climb through a window, or smash a wall down with a wrecking ball and stroll in the through the rubble.
My game lets you solve the problem of "get in the house" by any of those ways and more. It does this by having easy-to-comprehend rules for letting the players approach whatever problem in whatever way they choose.
Roll dice, consider skills, consult effect chart. Or maybe look at your brief list of kung-fu super powers and see if any might help you. Or just use your description to interact with the world ("I put my trusty ladder against the side of the house and climb down the chimney" doesn't really require rules consultation, but is possible in any reasonable RPG)
Come to think of it, what RPG doesn't allow this? Or maybe you're limiting your comment to combat, in which case...
Quote from: AsenRG;1052675What prevents the player from creating a one-trick pony and always winning with the same attack;)?
Playtesting. When we encounter a "one true build", we fix it. Simple as that.
There are probably "better" builds in terms of "white-room" combat, but given the omnipresence and usability of the setting, the edge of those generalized builds are rapidly dulled. More limited but situationally useful builds are just going to outshine them when they come up, which can be very often given the right strategy.
For instance; your super-broken archer build has a huge advantage in nearly every circumstance. He can't fast-travel through the flooded tunnel network underground though, because arrows suck in water and the mutant water-benders are down there, just aching to freeze him in a magical wave.
Basically, the things that keep one strategy from dominating real-life combat and warfare answer your question. Again, this is true of most RPG settings since D&D.
Quote from: AsenRG;1052675That depends on whether you see fighting games as emulation of wuxia for console gaming, or as their own thing, ne? For the record, I can see arguments in favour of either position...and in the end it's all in the eyes of the beholders (the people at the table).
I actually cannot comprehend what you're talking about in this paragraph. You've entered into some kind of cyclical spiral of non-Euclidian thinking that is impenetrable to me.
Quote from: AsenRG;1052675Because Fight! clearly doesn't see fighting games as emulation, and it's treating it as its own thing. If you don't share this opinion, yes, it's not the game for you.
Again, what do you mean by "see games as emulation"? Do you mean they're roleplaying games? Because yeah, I think it's a critical flaw if somebody makes a board game and calls it an RPG. "I have fifty pages of mechanics on punching!" is not an RPG; sorry, it doesn't make the cut.
What you have is a combat system. That means everything else is fiat, which inevitably means that a bad system will be put in place for it as I lovingly describe in this post.
(http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/08/lone-wolf-fists-making-sure-you-know.html)
Quote from: AsenRG;1052675Do you, really;)?
Or rather, how much mechanics do you need:p?
I mean, mechanics can be fun in and of themselves. But it doesn't make them necessary.
You seem to think that mechanics and RPG exist in two neat, separate boxes. They don't; RPGs are their mechanics. When the mechanics suck, your game sucks. If you fail to link your mechanics with what happens in the game, your game sucks.
This isn't final fantasy; the world doesn't swirl and take you to a battle screen minigame, distinct from the normal universe.
Or rather, if an RPG does that, it's failing to achieve the sophisticated fusion of game and imagination that RPGs were fucking born with. What's their excuse? D&D has been doing this since the seventies for god's sake.
Quote from: Azraele;1052680@Asen: I'm not sure how to answer your post? You're literally free to download my game and read the blog where I explain, in great detail, all the options available to characters and how that creates a rich and varied strategic landscape. Here's the early playtest (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/244258/Tian-Shang-Lone-Wolf-Fists-Eyebleed-playtest-version), my blog is linked here (http://mushroompress.blogspot.com), and here's a playtest done by the great ImprovGM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrr6nXG54O4&list=PLaD16z1FQGeIKdE_CI8L66Ng3OesR_swJ&index=12&t=4068s) if you're not in a reading mood.
Now with
less detail:)!
(I've downloaded the "eyebleed version" already, thanks. But I thought the idea wasn't to sell it just to the guy who managed to get his Strike in LotW to over +100;)? When people are asking you such questions on a forum, especially if you've published links to your blog, they're usually looking for the tl;dr version).
QuoteEdit: You know, I think I figured out where we're getting our wires crossed after all. Since I'm up late anyway, I decided to do two things, one of which was write you a proper reply
I'll leave the other thing to your imagination
OK. I don't care whether the other thing is drinking or fucking, so let's keep ahead...
QuoteMy D&D doesn't go past level 14 buddy.
...which means you only get to 7-th level spells, which include stuff like bending reality, flying, being invisible, seeing a target miles away, killing anyone whose personality/beliefs oppose yours, summoning a celestial dire lion, touching someone and killing him, turning a target to stone, and the like. Yeah, I see at least a couple that aren't really available in wuxia.
QuoteAlthough fun fact: I realized as I was writing this game that yeah, I was basically doing another go at the epic level handbook from 3rd edition.
Oops.
With great power come great similarities:D!
QuoteIt's not going to be possible for you to understand what I'm talking about with stuff like the Shared Mindspace and Tactical Infinity if you don't know how good D&D has been since it's inception. Here's some knowledge to help you out with that:
Zack S> and John Wick talk about the Shared Mindspace (http://johnwickpresents.com/podcast/conversations-with-john/conversations-with-john-zak-s/)
Guide to how Grognards think (http://www.grey-elf.com/philotomy.pdf)
And also almost anything Pundit says on the matter is pretty accurate too. He makes some videos, I'm told. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t5I0MqaYNc&t=552s)
OK, just one question...how did you come to the idea that I "don't know how good D&D has been since its inception"?
QuoteEven Arik Ten Broeke, one of the key designers of that game, has told me that he didn't feel it did "everything right". So I'm going to agree to disagree with you on that one.
Admittedly, you're right, it doesn't. There were at least a few things like disarming that it didn't do right.
But it did get most of it right within the high-power wuxia genre. And I was willing to forgive a lot for the interplay of Laughs At and Fear mechanics.
QuoteAlthough, if you want "LotW light", it's what I was initially working on. I'd highly recommend checking out the half-burnt manual by my pal Zechstyr: (http://wulinlegends.pbworks.com/w/file/fetch/100840843/HalfBurntManual_FINAL.pdf) not only is it approved by the designers of the game, but he was working with us when we first started work on "Wulin Light" and he's a fucking genius.
That's getting offensive... I was running a LotW game online, using the Half-Burnt Manual as a supplement, a couple of years ago.
QuoteYeah well... I'm a big fan of talking about things that exist outside of my own head. A lot of people talk a big game but can't design their way out of a damp bag of popcorn.
If you want to write down your own system ideas and post them up, I'll be happy to check them out and give you my thoughts. It sounds like you'd take it in a different direction, but that's cool. Wuxia is a big genre, there's room for lots of interpretations.
Well, I'm still not sure how I want the Flow ability to interface with the Nei Gong and Wai Gong abilities...:D
Once I'm more clear on that, I'd have a better grasp on the future mechanics. Until then, I'd rather use other people's wuxia games;).
QuoteYou're putting up some pretty vague goalposts there. If there's more than one way to strategically approach a situation, any of which is viable (in that it has some chance of success), then you're describing almost everything.
Take a house, for instance. You might say the "best" option for entering it is opening the front door, but you could reasonably go around the back door, or climb through a window, or smash a wall down with a wrecking ball and stroll in the through the rubble.
My game lets you solve the problem of "get in the house" by any of those ways and more. It does this by having easy-to-comprehend rules for letting the players approach whatever problem in whatever way they choose.
Roll dice, consider skills, consult effect chart. Or maybe look at your brief list of kung-fu super powers and see if any might help you. Or just use your description to interact with the world ("I put my trusty ladder against the side of the house and climb down the chimney" doesn't really require rules consultation, but is possible in any reasonable RPG)
Come to think of it, what RPG doesn't allow this? Or maybe you're limiting your comment to combat, in which case...
Not necessarily just combat, no, but then when discussing wuxia, I tend to look at that system first. No idea why I'd do that;).
QuotePlaytesting. When we encounter a "one true build", we fix it. Simple as that.[/QUOTE
I approve of this approach.
QuoteI actually cannot comprehend what you're talking about in this paragraph. You've entered into some kind of cyclical spiral of non-Euclidian thinking that is impenetrable to me.
Yes! The forbidden tomes I've been reading finally work:p!
QuoteAgain, what do you mean by "see games as emulation"?
"Are fighting games emulations of fighting, or their own thing?"
QuoteWhat you have is a combat system. That means everything else is fiat, which inevitably means that a bad system will be put in place for it as I lovingly describe in this post.
(http://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/08/lone-wolf-fists-making-sure-you-know.html)
Not necessarily. See Flashing Blades where the system is neither absent, nor does it require frequent rolling;).
QuoteYou seem to think that mechanics and RPG exist in two neat, separate boxes.
You seem to presume to know what I'm thinking. The only problem I think is when what you assume is wrong. Like, in this post you wasted lots of time explaining what I think or know...and you haven't been right on a single of those cases.
QuoteThey don't; RPGs are their mechanics. When the mechanics suck, your game sucks. If you fail to link your mechanics with what happens in the game, your game sucks.
Biggest garbage has never been written.
QuoteOr rather, if an RPG does that, it's failing to achieve the sophisticated fusion of game and imagination that RPGs were fucking born with. What's their excuse? D&D has been doing this since the seventies for god's sake.
Wait, Fight! the Fighting Game RPG is "a punching game", because it's just a fighting mechanic, "games are their mechanics", but "D&D was born in the 70ies with the right mix of game and imagination":p? One or more of these ain't true, man!
Quote from: AsenRG;1052742...
Hey Asen
I'm pretty ok with leaving this particular conversation thread here. It's becoming
preeeeeetty clear that we're not the same page
Good luck with your game, buddy ;-)
Quote from: Azraele;1052746Hey Asen
I'm pretty ok with leaving this particular conversation thread here. It's becoming preeeeeetty clear that we're not the same page
Good luck with your game, buddy ;-)
I wish more people had the good sense to stop a discussion like that:)!
Fine, let's drop it.
BTW, I'm not working on any
wuxia game now, and wouldn't be for at least a couple years more at least. But thanks for the well wishes, I'll remind you about that if I finish my current project;).
On the topic of D&D and wuxia. I've run quite a few such campaigns and my two cents is your first question when doing so should be am I using D&D to run a wuxia campaign or am I adding wuxia elements to my D&D campaign. The answer takes you down two completely different paths. I had pretty good success with 3E for wuxia because the multiclassing rules, prestige classes, feats and spells could all be used to emulate the genre. Also, if you were willing to make your own classes, you could have martial arts techniques that we're simple class abilities in the style of the monk or ones that functioned more like spells. If you take a page from 4E you can turn the Vancian system into more regularly available martial abilities. Also just the sheer volume of material was good for letting me mix and match until I got what I wanted. There are tons of third party material to draw on as well (for different editions as well). So if you like cobbling until a game fits your exact taste, I think it has a lot of tools to draw on. I had fun tweaking D&D to my wuxia taste in itself (though there were games that fit my taste better out of the box).
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;1052826On the topic of D&D and wuxia.
I've run quite a few such campaigns and my two cents is: your first question when doing so should be
1. am I using D&D to run a wuxia campaign or
2. am I adding wuxia elements to my D&D campaign?
The answer takes you down two completely different paths.
True. A game built around wuxia as a core conceit is way different than one that isn't.
I think one of the reasons that the monk class draws such sharp criticism as a discordant element is because it's drawing on a totally different set of conceits
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;1052826I had pretty good success with 3E for wuxia because the multiclassing rules, prestige classes, feats and spells could all be used to emulate the genre.
Also, if you were willing to make your own classes, you could have martial arts techniques that were simple class abilities in the style of the monk or ones that functioned more like spells.
If you take a page from 4E you can turn the Vancian system into more regularly available martial abilities.
4E is pretty great for wuxia, yes. You likely won't be surprised to learn that we are far from the only people to come to this conclusion. (https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?400422-4e-As-a-Basis-for-a-Wuxia-Game)
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;1052826Also just the sheer volume of material was good for letting me mix and match until I got what I wanted.
There are tons of third party material to draw on as well (for different editions as well).
So if you like cobbling until a game fits your exact taste, I think it has a lot of tools to draw on.
I had fun tweaking D&D to my wuxia taste in itself (though there were games that fit my taste better out of the box).
That is, I think, one of the elements of RPGs that is both inspiring and frustrating. I can hack D&D or GURPS or similar games (that have existed longer than I have) to do pretty much anything.
It's only the persistent dissatisfaction with my results meeting my expectations that ever drives me to design my own game. God knows it isn't for monetary reward XD
I think that the tricky part about doing a Kung-fu game is figuring out how to do the fighting styles and the powers in a way that's both interesting/engaging and yet not unbalanced and open to powergaming/min-maxing.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1053560I think that the tricky part about doing a Kung-fu game is figuring out how to do the fighting styles and the powers in a way that's both interesting/engaging and yet not unbalanced and open to powergaming/min-maxing.
True. It's easy to get caught up in making them
too balanced, though. What you want, I find, is a game that's robust enough to deal with a carefully-crafted imbalance. Here, watch another entertaining video:
[video=youtube;e31OSVZF77w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w[/youtube]
You've probably seen that before. What you likely haven't seen before, however, is this new blog post I made about the kung-fu moves in the game. So here it is:
Spoiler
I really only like the first few episodes of Dragonball Z.
The set-up is great; the world's greatest, magical martial artist and his almost-equally powerful demonic rival get totally beaten by an alien superman. In the first episode, he's already doing the Zod thing and demanding the hero break his moral code and kill a bunch of folks or lose his son.
The stakes are high; mortal foes Goku and Piccolo must join forces to have any hope of overcoming Raditz or he'll destroy the world. Not a bad opener.
Best part? He kicks their asses. Raditz completely mops the floor with them; the whole fight is a long and desperate series of high-stakes failures. It's only through a suicidal act of self-sacrifice that the duo can beat him, which starts the series off by killing the main character. Incredible.
Gets better though; his two buddies are coming in a year, and they make him look like a weakling. That's right folks; this guy wasn't even the miniboss, he was the goomba.
So the next few episodes, where we're mostly watching the characters training, you've got a powerful tension that makes them a lot more consumable. Toriyama also does a great job of showing how difficult and strange the training is, and he shows just enough improvement to give us a sense of progress.
We follow both Goku training with King Kai in the afterlife and his son Gohan training in Piccolo's demonic style on earth. The dynamic of master and student is interesting. The masters become proud of their students, learn about them, discipline them, and show genuine excitement as their mastery improves.
At one point Kai is like "Holy shit, this dude is going to master Kaioken. I'm immortal and I never thought this would happen!"
Importantly, we don't see either student use their new powers right away. Toriyama knows a thing or two about drawing out that content: son of a (fine, upstanding young woman, no doubt) makes us wait until the fight with the Saiyans gets well underway before we get to see that action.
And that fight is a ballbuster too. The miniboss Sayian Nappa chews through 9/10ths of the main cast before Goku sprints his hairy ass to the battle. There's heartbreak after heartbreak as characters fight their very hardest and die in utter futility against these bastards.
It's only after he's broken our hearts and totally convinced us that the series is doomed that Toriyama lets Goku arrive. It's only then, when he shreds Nappa in the opening shots of the battle, that we get a sense of just how much all that training paid off.
Anyway it's not something to miss. Go and buy the fist season DVD and be happy. It stays reasonably good up through the Frieza saga then falls apart, but it never gets to those heights again.
...
What's the takeaway from this? There's a lot to unpack, but for the sake of focus I'm going to direct your attention to how the characters learn and what that means for them.
Goku clearly learns new moves when he trains with King Kai. The act of learning those moves, the degree of discipline and effort required to master them, is what made him stronger.
Not just a little stronger either; he was like a different character when he returned to the world; even his best friend since childhood is like "Whoah there's... Yeah there's no way you're Goku. He's the strongest guy I know and you're unrealistically stronger than him"
I echoed this mastery-through-move-acquisition in Lone Wolf Fists. Everything links back to which new moves you learn; get a more powerful move, you get stronger in every dimension.
Another important lesson: their new moves shaped the tactical landscape of the battle. Goku's Kaioken enabled him to compete with warriors who enormously outclassed him. The final epic contest with between his Kamehameha wave and Vegeta's Galick Gun was only possible because of his power-boosting use of Kaioken.
Later, when he realizes that he's hit his limit and Vegeta is chasing him as a giant ape (this fight is rad guys), his use of the Spirit Bomb is him exercising a new tactical option at his disposal. The tactical landscape changed because he acquired new powers.
While I was writing, testing, and re-writing the rules for Techniques, I kept this firmly in mind. Techniques should never be bland; there should never be "speed bump" options that players hate. Each one should be magical, powerful, and desirable, even taken alone.
They need to open new tactical windows for players to clamber through. Sure, it's cool that you can punch a car in half now, but if you're also able to lift a building out of its foundations? Well, that's a whole new dimension of tactical options that just opened for you.
There's a lot to unpack with Techniques, too. I'll let you get to reading them; see for yourself.
...
Techniques
Techniques are magical martial arts moves. They are movements of body and spirit which focus a warrior's Prana into something at once a maneuver and a spell. Powerful, dangerous, mystical; Techniques brought about the end of the world. In its ashes, they are wielded by hero and villain alike. Can these mystic martial arts redeem themselves and bring the world to salvation? Or are they doomed to bring only ruin?
To characters, Techniques are secret mystical attacks, defenses, and other maneuvers. They are taught by masters and recovered from ancient texts; replicating them is unthinkable, as they represent the culmination of effort from countless generations of magical martial-arts grandmasters. Mastering a Technique is a triumph both of effort and soul; it is a realization of a student's destiny, and another step on their quest to self-perfection.
To players, they are special powers fueled by their character's Prana. They offer great power and acquiring them increases their character's core capabilities. You can probably see some similarities there!
How Techniques Work
Techniques are a central focus of this game; as such, there's a lot going on with them. Some of it is obvious, some of it is subtle. We're going to give you a shakedown on how Techniques work, how they're acquired, and a thorough rundown of what they do in the game and some of the consequences of that. I sure hope you grabbed that sandwich.
Elements of a Technique
Let's start by getting you familiar with the elements that comprise Techniques. Here's what they look like all together:
Here's a breakdown of the elements:
Name: The in-universe name of the Technique. These are sometimes descriptive, sometimes poetic. Generally, they offer a blend of both, telling you what a Technique does with a cool and intimidating title.
Cost: The amount of Prana which must be spent to use the Technique
Rank: Techniques generate Sets; this is the Rank of the Set.
Facing: This is the Facing of the Set. As with any Set, you may combine this with any other dice of the same Facing to increase its Rank.
Power: In addition to the Set they generate, Techniques often have other powers. They are detailed here.
Using Techniques
To use a Technique, first choose which one you want to use. You can only use one technique to enhance a single action, so choose wisely.
Next, spend Prana from one of your Chakra Pools equal to the Technique's Cost. This is an act of magic in the game's world; a martial artist channeling their Prana in a focused effort to change reality.
Now, the Technique does a few things.
First, it creates or enhances an action with a Set. This Set is equal to the Technique's Rank. So, for instance, a Rank 2 Technique creates a Rank 2 action. Simple as that.
This Set has a Facing which is, you guessed it, provided by the Technique's Facing. These are sometimes a range: 2-4 it might say. This means you get to choose any Facing within that Range. It could be a Facing of 2, or 3, or 4, in that example. You can't mix Facings; you can't have 2 and 4, for instance, and you can't choose a Facing outside of that range, like a 5.
Here's a very important note to this step: this Set made by a Technique? It works like any other Set. This means that you can combine it with Sets or dice of like-Facing.
Furthermore, actions created work like any other action. Head on back to p.XX for a refresher on them, but in brief:
You get a single Rank 1 action per turn
You get as many Rank 2+ actions as you like per turn
You can use Rank 1 defenses as often as you like
What does this mean for Techniques? It has a lot of implications; if you have a Rank 1 Technique, you can only use it once per turn unless you're enhancing another action with it, for example. Just keep that in mind as you're learning about and using Techniques; they make Sets and Sets all work the same.
The next important thing Techniques do is unleash their Power. These are unique effects created by the Technique's magic. Techniques describe exactly how their Power manifests: sometimes this is in mechanical terms ("Creates a fire-element Hazard of Rank 3...") sometimes it is described as an effect in the Tactical Infinity ("Onlookers begin weeping uncontrollably...")
Often, a Technique's Power has one or more Keywords which enhance, direct, or limit it's uses. This is explained shortly.
After it's Effect and Set have been manifested, the Technique has expended its power and concludes. It can be used again to enhance another action if it's Cost is paid once more. Although only a single Technique may enhance a given action, multiple Techniques (or the same Technique numerous times) may be used on the same turn.
Keywords
Some powers or restrictions are common: these are grouped under Keywords for ease of use. They appear under the Power heading. Here are some common keywords:
Offensive: This Technique may only be used to increase or create an Attack.
Defensive: This Technique may only be used to increase or create a Defense.
Versatile: This Technique may be used to increase or create an attack or defense
Sustainable: Techniques bearing this keyword can be sustained, like Skills.
Counterattack: These Techniques answer the foe's attack with a deadly counter. If your Defense reduces the Attacker's total to a negative result, the Technique inflicts Damage equal to the negative total to attacker.
For example, you're attacked with a 38 result. Using a Counterattack Technique, your defense is boosted to an impressive 50. This reduces the attacker's total to -12, so they're walloped for 12 damage. Ouch!
Infuse: A Technique with this ability saturates a touched object with its cruel magic, poisoning it
On weapons or fists, this allows a strike to poison a target
More insidiously, food, drink and other consumables may be tainted so that those ingesting them suffer the effects of the poison
Infuse Techniques do not create attacks of their own; they only empower attacks. Because of this limitation, they can be used in conjunction with other Techniques. This is a special exception to the normal limit of 1 Technique per action.
Holy/ Unholy: These Techniques resonate with holy or unholy energy. They deal +1 Rank of damage to beings of the opposing type (Holy attacks smite Unholy creatures and vice versa). An unholy being cannot use a holy-keyword Technique, and likewise holy beings may not use unholy Techniques. They may still learn and teach them, however.
Levels of Technique
Each martial style has four levels of Techniques, ranging from the easiest to master to the most difficult. These levels are as follows:
Novice: The simplest and most direct Techniques. The forms that teach these techniques are taught to the most promising students. Those whose quest for self-mastery unlocks the dormant power of their Chakra learn how to focus their Prana through the motions and unleash these maneuvers. They lack the versatility and raw power of more advanced techniques but are still an expression of pure will brought to reality by magic. Most styles have four of these.
Expert: These more advanced maneuvers can only be mastered by those with the potential for greatness. They offer incredible power; some martial artists are known by their signature Expert-level Technique. Most styles have three such Techniques.
Master: Learning one of these rarified Techniques is the mark of a master (hence their name). Their wielders gain the power to achieve feats beyond the capabilities of their lessers, literally doing the impossible. These Techniques (and their masters) are respected and feared. Most styles only have two such powers.
Ultimate: These Techniques offer power beyond the pinnacle of mortal achievement. Those who
learn these maneuvers crave a might both dangerous and inhuman. These powers once destroyed the world; what can be said of those who seek them, let alone of those who master them? Complete styles have but one of these awesome Techniques.
Breaking the limits of the Effect Charts
Techniques offer power beyond their martial uses: they allow a mortal martial artist to surpass their earthly limitations and achieve godlike feats. They do this by breaking through the Rank limitations of the Effect charts. This works as follows.
Every mystical martial style has a single skill (Power, Agility, Endurance, Senses, Intellect, Heart or Spirit) which it may enhance with its Expert and higher-level Technique's Sets in lieu of providing its Power.
For example, rather than searing a foe with the Violet Immolation Arc, you may use it's Set to perform a Rank 2 Agility action (or combine it with some Effort dice to make an even higher-Ranked action).
Novice Techniques, the weakest variety and easiest to master, cannot enhance skills this way unless their Power states that they can.
Expert level Techniques may enhance the skill but are still bound to the limitation of 6 on the Effect charts.
Master-level Techniques push this limitation, allowing up to Rank 7 effects.
Ultimate Techniques unleash the full power of the effect charts, enabling terrifying Rank 8 effects.
In all cases, you must actually achieve the Rank to get it's result. Even if you unleashed an Ultimate Technique, it would only create a Rank 5 Effect unless you combined it with other Effort dice. In this way, you must fuse the most powerful magic with your character's effort and concentration to achieve the highest results.
Learning new Techniques
Characters gain power solely through their mastery of new Techniques. The self-refinement and discipline required to master ever more powerful Techniques refines their body and soul, broadening and deepening their capabilities with each new move they learn.
Mechanically, characters gain higher Degree as they learn new Techniques. The mix of Techniques necessary for this, and what new powers this unlocks, is detailed later when we talk about Degrees (p.XX)
In the meantime, let's learn how to get new moves.
Kharmic cost: to learn a new Technique, you must spend accumulated Kharma equal to it's Kharmic Cost. To characters, this represents the fusion and refinement of their many struggles with destiny into a concrete expression of its realization. To players, this is their payoff for many, many scenes of entertaining (and sometimes difficult!) roleplay.
Training: As already mentioned under Montage Scenes (p.XX), it takes a full Montage of training, self-reflection and practice to learn a new Technique.
Now, it's entirely possible that Orthogonal content, Zui consequences or just the twisted will of the GM interrupts this training with something dangerous and exciting, like a disaster or an enemy coming to seek their vengeance. This doesn't interrupt your training; as a matter of fact, it's considered a part of the training.
At any time while you're dealing with this distraction, you can unleash the new Technique for the very first time. Within the setting, these events of sudden and complete mastery of a new Technique are called Moments of Clarity. We adopt that same nomenclature out of game (because it's cool).
Training Methods: There are two; Masters and Manuals.
Masters are characters that already know the Technique. They teach the student it's nuances and guide them through a training regimen over the course of the Montage scene, ultimately culminating in the student's mastery (or failure, if they don't have the Kharma handy to pay for it).
An important note about masters is that they must willingly teach the student. Most will only do so for a student they deeply trust on a philosophical or personal level. It's not impossible to coerce one, but ultimately, they must teach the Technique willingly.
Manuals are written or recorded instruction that guide a student through the nuances and training regimen. Unlike a master, a manual cannot be asked questions, making them notoriously frustrating when the maneuver is unintuitive or difficult.
However, a manual cannot refuse to teach its lesson. In many cases, it is much easier to learn from a manual than a recalcitrant master. The creation, passing, and theft of manuals is common practice among the martial brotherhoods of the World of Ashes and Ghosts.
I think I get what you mean. What I mean is that a badly designed kung-fu game is one where, much like a bad Feat system a la 3e, there's certain special maneuvers that everyone who wants character optimization has to get, so it's not about showing a given style, just about what the rules demand for you to be competitive.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1053996I think I get what you mean. What I mean is that a badly designed kung-fu game is one where, much like a bad Feat system a la 3e, there's certain special maneuvers that everyone who wants character optimization has to get, so it's not about showing a given style, just about what the rules demand for you to be competitive.
Yeah, I've been kind of petrified of that since I started banging this thing together. My strategy to kill the "one true build" as I've heard it termed is thus:
1) I try to avoid well-known pitfalls. Exalted 2nd edition was a crash-course in things that seemed like super great ideas on paper. But it was an ever-churning dumpster fire of disappointment in play; I've got a heavy bookshelf of disappointment I crack open every once in a while to remind myself of things to avoid.
2) I playtest, holy hell. There's just no substitute for seeing the moves in play. We can't catch everything by playtesting, but man we catch a lot.
3) I know enough not to totally screw up the math. I've had this guy as a fantastic resource (https://asteroid.divnull.com/2008/01/chance-of-reign/) for the core resolution system and we've got an actual math teacher on the team. When we're costing Techniques, we're able to fine-tune both the difficulties to acquire and the cost to use it based on a very accurate prediction of its power in regards to other Techniques.
4) I developed a tactical understanding of my game. My design work on this has been deeply influenced by Magic: The Gathering and other mathematically rigorous competitive games. There are a lot of "chokepoints" in the design and costing of powers that places certain strategies later in battles and some earlier, for instance. Having a thorough tactical vision for your game and creating a system which conforms to that plan is essential to making a satisfyingly tactical system (of any variety)
5) I make powers do more than punch. The Techniques double as an advancement paradigm and as skill boosters. Remember earlier how much I designed those skills? Broadening the punch-powers to dip into that rich design-soil expands and deepens the strategic use of powers, even outside of combat. The full measure of a given Technique's utility is therefore broadened beyond uselessness; there aren't any "trap" Techniques that are simply worse than all others.
6) I don't make many fighting moves. The less you make, the less you have to worry about. Despite this being a game about magical kung-fu, there's only a fraction of the powers you see in comparable games like Exalted. This is intentional; I've made the moves do a lot so that you don't need many of them to unlock some really cool powers. This tight design pays a lot of dividends in playtesting, but in the final game; getting a new move is an
event, not just a speed bump.
7) I lean heavily on the tactical infinity. You'll note me going back to "this imagined world has its own integrity" a lot. There are things you can do with kung-fu powers that I can't possibly account for
by design: this is so that they can be used to enable tactics that I can't account or design for. This allows me to a do a lot of stuff like link Techniques and styles with elements so that a given style is stronger or weaker in a different environment.
One of the ways I've successfully avoided the dreaded "white room combat" situations is by making certain that they basically can't occur; without the ability to compare powers in a vacuum, their relative worth is much muddier and therefore more difficult to totally master.
...
So that's some hard-won design advice for all of you aspiring kung-fu RPG writers out there. Also; don't ever do this. It's so much harder than it has any right to be dear god.
Quote from: Azraele;1054212Yeah, I've been kind of petrified of that since I started banging this thing together. My strategy to kill the "one true build" as I've heard it termed is thus:
1) I try to avoid well-known pitfalls. Exalted 2nd edition was a crash-course in things that seemed like super great ideas on paper. But it was an ever-churning dumpster fire of disappointment in play; I've got a heavy bookshelf of disappointment I crack open every once in a while to remind myself of things to avoid.
Yeah. Exalted certainly is a spectacular cautionary example of what NOT to do.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1054344Yeah. Exalted certainly is a spectacular cautionary example of what NOT to do.
I've never played Exalted myself. If I was going to design a game like this I'd probably follow along the lines of the original Feng Shuei. Except, given the genre that is trying to be captured (epic eastern horror), you'd turn the dial up to 11.
Feng Shui did a much better job than most at this difficult design challenge.
Hey! I want to keep talking about this. Check out how much I've already talked with these handy links!
First, the more complex dimension of our wound system (https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/08/lone-wolf-fists-hath-ye-no-knowledge-of.html). Not only can you mutilate your foe's body, you can mutilate their soul!
Next, some mystical magical woo that I made up a lot. I promise there' not much required reading. (https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/08/lone-wolf-fists-required-reading-in-rpgs.html)
But of course, all magical woo is in service to the sorcery of asskicking (https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/08/lone-wolf-fists-magical-martial-arts.html)
Also, here's one about walking. (https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/09/lone-wolf-fists-walking-scorched-earth.html)What? They can't all melt your face off!
This one however, will absolutely melt your face off. (https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/09/lone-wolf-fists-tanks-in-my-pong-analogy.html) We present a tank, for your punching pleasure!
Since this thread has matured, I feel it's time I finally had "the talk" with the lot of you: learn about the non-stork origins of martial heroes therein.
(https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/10/lone-wolf-fists-mommy-where-do-martial.html)
Do you have a Burning Need for a post-apocalyptic serfdom simulator?! No? Well, apparently I did! (https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/10/lone-wolf-fists-serfdom-in-post.html)
And here's my very latest, where I artlessly smoosh together two great XP-incentive mechanisms into a Frankenstien's monster that makes god turn his head from this world in disgust (https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/11/lone-wolf-fists-tug-of-destiny.html). Enjoy!
I should mention the most extensive and researched study of martial arts styles in an RPG was Erick Wujcik's Ninjas & Superspies. Erick was, like myself, a great sinophile.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1065885I should mention the most extensive and researched study of martial arts styles in an RPG was Erick Wujcik's Ninjas & Superspies. Erick was, like myself, a great sinophile.
You know, I think I actually have an old copy of that kicking around somewhere. I didn't realize Wujcik wrote it; I'll have to dust it off and check it out!
Meanwhile, I brutal'd up some of the kung-fu in this newest of blog posts for your collective reading enjoyment. (https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/11/lone-wolf-fists-redesigning-kung-fu.html)
And, as you've added the shiny new word "sinophile" to my vocabulary (a vanishingly rare treat for the aging bibliophile) I offer you the awesome knowledge that I also just learned in re-writing the water style: apparently Hawaiian martial arts is based on joint locks and breaking bone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapu_Kuialua)s, which is an appropriately gory and over-the-top thing to appear in a game based on a show where poking people right makes their head go
scanners.
Wujcik also did the Palladium Mystic China sourcebook, which once more showed his considerable knowledge of the subject.
Hey man, are you still working on this? I'm loving everything that I read on the first two pages, so much so that I wanted to go ahead and comment before going through pages three and four.
Also, are you going to possibly run this anywhere? I want to at least make test characters for this system, to see what all can be made.
Quote from: AxesofEvil;1067604Hey man, are you still working on this? I'm loving everything that I read on the first two pages, so much so that I wanted to go ahead and comment before going through pages three and four.
Also, are you going to possibly run this anywhere? I want to at least make test characters for this system, to see what all can be made.
Oh yeah; I've been pecking away at it all this year, hope to have a "proper" playtest finished in the near-ish future. Yours is the second request for more direct online testing I've gotten actually: that's clearly a mandate I've got to do
something with... Let me get back to you!
Right on.
While I'm here, I like how brutal the setting sounds right now, but do you mean it's a true 'post apocalypse', like people are living in little hobo shacks everywhere, and using bottlecaps or funko pops for currency?
I ask because I wonder if that would really effect the characters we make. Like, could Ken Masters or Johnny Cage exist in this world, where they're rich famous yuppies who want to prove that they're hard? Or is this world just too desolate and demon-ridden for a 'yuppie' style character to even exist?
Quote from: AxesofEvil;1067720Right on.
While I'm here, I like how brutal the setting sounds right now, but do you mean it's a true 'post apocalypse', like people are living in little hobo shacks everywhere, and using bottlecaps or funko pops for currency?
I ask because I wonder if that would really effect the characters we make. Like, could Ken Masters or Johnny Cage exist in this world, where they're rich famous yuppies who want to prove that they're hard? Or is this world just too desolate and demon-ridden for a 'yuppie' style character to even exist?
I imagined it pretty bottlecapy, yeah. You wouldn't see a lot of Johnny Cages in Fist of the North Star ;-D
That said, I'm not here to tell you how to run YOUR apocalypse; maybe it was one of those hunger-games classist apocalypses. Nu-aristocrat yuppies would be like, awesome hitmen in that scenario. I'm leaving borders open on the maps and keeping the particulars of the Armageddon vague, so feel free to be creative!
Edit: Also, new blog post! Bad good guys using good guy lightning kung-fu versus good ninjas doing evil ninja kung-fu (https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/12/lone-wolf-fists-redesigning-kung-fu.html). Join the carnage!
Oh man, I missed a few blog updates over the holidays. Let me link you fine folks to the goodies:
First, I continued my re-write of the kung-fu with a long discussion about the joys of firebending and psychic horrors beyond your wildest nightmares. (https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/12/lone-wolf-fists-redesigning-kung-fu_19.html)
Kept that rolling with an in-depth analysis of why it's rad to be Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star (https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/12/lone-wolf-fists-redesigning-kung-fu_21.html) which, naturally, was delivered with the kung-fu that makes heads explode.
Slowed it down a bit with my Fistmas present to the world, the Content rules for running and pacing games (https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/12/lone-wolf-fists-fistmas-miracle-content.html).
and just now I topped all that off with a some intro adventure and game-pitch documents, sprinkled lovingly between part one of my playtest report (https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2019/01/lone-wolf-fists-playtest-part-1.html).
Lots of treats for your edification and entertainment true believers. Enjoy!
Interesting!
For the record, I am still writing this. I've just hit an inglorious stretch post-playtesting where I'm patching up and re-ordering over 300 pages of dense rules text. It's like trying to re-write an encyclopedia from memory.
So lots of work, but nothing really sexy to report. Like, would anybody even know what the hell I was talking about if I told you that I'd "strongly linked and bounded skill actions to the logic of the different scene speeds"?
No, of course you goddamn wouldn't. What is that garble?
But, much like Morgan Freeman's character in Batman Begins, I don't tell you so you understand; I tell you so you know how hard it is.
I really enjoyed reading your playtest. Made me want to run Kung Fu Gamma World.
https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2019/01/lone-wolf-fists-playtest-part-1.html
Quote from: Azraele;1082615Like, would anybody even know what the hell I was talking about if I told you that I'd "strongly linked and bounded skill actions to the logic of the different scene speeds"?
I do know WTF you're talking about and I am interested in how you're implementing that.
Give us an example of play.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1083011I really enjoyed reading your playtest. Made me want to run Kung Fu Gamma World.
https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2019/01/lone-wolf-fists-playtest-part-1.html
I do know WTF you're talking about and I am interested in how you're implementing that.
Give us an example of play.
Man, being compared to Gamma World is high praise. Although I guess it's not really a comparison so much as "Your game reminded me of a good game" but hell, I'll take it.
Okay so, example of play. Let me pull out the one that made this latest re-write necessary.
So my players are trying to travel through a city that has a small army of bike-riding marauders parked in it; they weigh options like fighting their way through or pretending to be traveling merchants or something, but ultimately decide on traveling through the tunnel network underneath the city and emerging on the other side.
Blah blah, they run into a dead god who inadvertently shoves two of them to the spirit realm.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]3316[/ATTACH]
They also got behind enemy lines, but where so appalled when they saw the ruined part of the city the ruffians had smashed their way through, that they decided to fuck with them anyway. since 2/3rds of them were ghosts, they figured some sneaky sabotage was a good approach.
Enter the scene logic:
It occurred to me there were numerous ways to approach this scene. If I chose to do it moment-by-moment (like an action scene is paced) I would be doing it with combat rounds. This struck me as an inappropriate place to *start* the scene; they weren't really known to their foes, so they encountered them as a more passive force, more a set of obstacles than an active threat.
If I approached it at a slower pace though, it'd be something closer to a dungeoncrawl; the characters would be sneaking around, trying *not* to be seen by the denizens while performing their sabotage. It dawned on me that the messy take on stealth rules didn't really allow the kind of granularity that made this a satisfying experience; it needed a deeper delve into what the Senses skill meant in the context of different scenes.
But then one of the players prolonged a stealth action from a technique that essentially made him invisible; not only him, but his buddies two. His buddies who were already ghosts. This meant they were facing nearly no danger: this allowed them to approach the scene on an extremely relaxed timescale. Basically they just narrated how they were sabotaging these clowns; because they could just roll their Effort as many times as they wanted, the cap on their actions was the same as being able to "take twenty" in 3.0 terms on every action for as long as they wanted.
When I considered this, it made me keenly aware that it was too easy to get into a circumstance where you could max out as many actions as you wanted this way. Because of the way actions link to effect in the game world, this led to a sub-optimal resolution of the players being incentivized to reach this state and have a near-limitless, maximum effect on the game world. This is functionally similar to getting an "infinite loop" combo in a game like Magic: the Gathering; it's not strictly a bad thing, but it shapes the experience of play significantly. In this case, it's not really reflective of the brutal, dangerous and strongly reactive world I was hoping to evoke.
After letting them ruin those fools, I went back to the drawing board a bit on the skill and scene rules. The newest take grew out of trying to solve a LOT of problems at once by unifying both of them.
In the new take, the same skill makes different kinds of changes happen depending on the scene. To demonstrate, let's take Senses for stealth again:
-Obviously in an action scene like combat, you can be in a kind of binary seen/not seen state. Because you're sacrificing the limited action-resources of Effort and Prana to do this, it self-balances nicely as a tactical trade-off among your other options.
-In a real-time scene as above, it does something similar, but with more granularity: bad guys might be suspicious of clues you leave behind or noises you make, so your described actions have a bigger impact on the experience. My thinking is this will drive a more espionage-centric "metal gear solid" kind of sneaking gameplay.
-However, to reign in and clarify the effect of stealth on long-term, large-scale montage scenes, I couched the same result in terms of a long-term espionage campaign, quantifying the effect in those terms. So instead of "you're invisible, you wreck them" it's something closer to "You wage an espionage campaign against them and destroy their fuel supply"
I did that for all the skills, which solved just, so many problems. The social effects, for instance, were reigned in during non-montage scenes so you weren't casually turning entire populations into worshipers every time you spoke in a real-time scene. And the Power skill got a considerable boost in non-action scenes, because now it can be used to redefine the landscape by acting as a one-man demolition crew in montage scenes.
Also, our fantastic graphic designer Victor Andrade finished up a draft of the character sheet for the sister-game All Above Heaven. Check this bad boy out:
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And just like that, Vic managed to complete the layout for Act 1!
We've got an intro adventure for the outer-space gonzo version of this game that's been in layout hell forever. We're finally done with it though! You guys can grab it on Friday, I'll post a link right here for ya'll.
And here it is! Get your mitts on it for free you wonderful elfgame players! (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/273258/Tian-Shang-All-Above-Heaven-Act-1)
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Still beavering away on this. Ya'll probably saw our awesome ad banners on this very site; I've been really happy with the coverage there!
Been busy with some of that deep-level design: did another playtest draft, which although incomplete is available for all patrons (even for a mere dollar, should anyone be interested in checking out the compiled version of the rules as I write them).
Did a playtest, too! Brendan Davis of Wandering Heroes of Ogre Gate fame and his crew played with me and we even made a podcast out of it! (https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-xkqa7-b17c15?fbclid=IwAR2IyuEZH07cTogdafzlHK5iz39EdGL9dxEsNDe7PmDdAyvveI6EZLdIh5Q#.XN3VKO6sGXo.facebook)
So work continues. I'm actually going to be diving into some design tonight, including the strategic-level play promised by Montage scenes, and possibly the Minor Dharmas of the different clans, so I can more concisely communicate to players what their clan is "about" in terms of it's expectations and demands of its heroes.
Stay tuned, folks!
Quote from: Azraele;1088248Still beavering away on this. Ya'll probably saw our awesome ad banners on this very site; I've been really happy with the coverage there!
Been busy with some of that deep-level design: did another playtest draft, which although incomplete is available for all patrons (even for a mere dollar, should anyone be interested in checking out the compiled version of the rules as I write them).
Did a playtest, too! Brendan Davis of Wandering Heroes of Ogre Gate fame and his crew played with me and we even made a podcast out of it! (https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-xkqa7-b17c15?fbclid=IwAR2IyuEZH07cTogdafzlHK5iz39EdGL9dxEsNDe7PmDdAyvveI6EZLdIh5Q#.XN3VKO6sGXo.facebook)
So work continues. I'm actually going to be diving into some design tonight, including the strategic-level play promised by Montage scenes, and possibly the Minor Dharmas of the different clans, so I can more concisely communicate to players what their clan is "about" in terms of it's expectations and demands of its heroes.
Stay tuned, folks!
Oh yeah, speaking of which, your ad expired a week ago. You got an extra week of free ad space because I was out of town last week and didn't take it down. Thanks for your patronage and send me a DM or email if you want to renew!
Quote from: RPGPundit;1089506Oh yeah, speaking of which, your ad expired a week ago. You got an extra week of free ad space because I was out of town last week and didn't take it down. Thanks for your patronage and send me a DM or email if you want to renew!
Thank you for that! I may indeed as I continue fervently working on this project!
Anyway: Not dead yet! Just been incredibly busy for these last few months
Here are some blog posts as the mechanics continue their inevitable march towards glory!
Playtest Part 2 (https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2019/01/lone-wolf-fists-playtest-part-2.html)
Gods and Monsters (https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2019/01/lone-wolf-fists-monsters-spirits-and.html)
Fresh scene design paradigm
(https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2019/03/staggering-back-from-latest-disaster.html)Fresh Power Mechanics (https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2019/06/christ-life-is-kick-in-balls-heres-some.html)
New Agility Mechanics
(https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2019/06/one-gravitates-to-evangelion-during.html)New Endurance Mechanics (https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2019/07/being-tough-is-cool-and-shut-up.html)
Fresh Hea-.... No, wait, Content rules! I meant to say that!
(https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2019/08/hea-no-wait-content-again.html)
Also, the character sheets for All Above Heaven (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/282680/All-Above-Heaven-character-sheet) and Lone Wolf Fists (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/282677/Lone-Wolf-Fists-character-sheet)are totally available on DTRPG now, for use in your playtests and homegames and such
Finally, I leave you with some lovely new art by our resident post-apocalypse landscape maestro, Kazuki Shinta:
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Working on the Gupt Kala and some example content this week: Stay tuned!
One more blog post (https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2019/08/committing-to-things-is-hard-gupt-kala.html) before the looming 9-day workweek swallows me.
Oh, who am I kidding. I'm just gonna write instead of sleep again. Stay tuned folks.
What's sleep? I'm sure you meant "Create an entire Gupt Kala again!" (https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2019/08/the-social-arts-no-i-still-havent.html)
Now to see about these bleeding eyeballs of mine....
WHELP, it took a few years and an embarrassing amount of effort, but I finally got the playtest in a nice place and I'm doing the final goings-over before uploading right now.
I am incredibly impressed by how much the internal art elevates the whole work; gonna see about getting just a bit more maybe before I finalize that upload. For your viewing pleasure, I want to share this page of which I am particularly proud:
On second thought, this link will probably work out better (https://drive.google.com/file/d/14rhfn40Fiaq2WTATHy8RN7FHLm0h1u2t/view?usp=sharing)
Alrighty folks, playtest is finished! Go grab it here (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/244258/Tian-Shang-Lone-Wolf-Fists-Eyebleed-playtest-version) and tell me your thoughts.
And our kickstart is live! Come on in and GET YOUR FIST ONNNNNN
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One last good necrobump: our round 2 Kickstarter has begun, if any ya'll fans of FISTS want to get your asskick on in the post apocalypse.
Also, general Q&A if anyone wants to pick my brain about the game.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lonewolffists/tian-shang-lone-wolf-fists-0 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lonewolffists/tian-shang-lone-wolf-fists-0)
Okay one more bump
First of all, WE ARE FUNDED BABY YEAAAHHHHH so get ready to be able to buy this game even if you've slept on my KS (you jerk!)
But also, had a fantastic session tonight that is mildly punctuated by crying toddler (all the best are!) but is nonetheless
incredibly informative about the rules and very listenable and fun!
Blast from the past: I just got her released, folks! https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/416442/Tian-Shang-Lone-Wolf-Fists (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/416442/Tian-Shang-Lone-Wolf-Fists)
If you don't mind a slight hijacking that's not really a hijacking I'm going to talk about WEG Star Wars 1E a moment.
In my own brainstorming of doing a post apocalyptic RPGs based on Star Wars, the combat system really surprised in how cinematic it really is. You don't roll any kind of standard initiative. At the start of a combat round everyone describes their actions and this determines how many segments the round lasts.
Characters then take actions In the Order described. If two characters are directly opposing each other, both roll their actions and the higher roll acts and loser doesn't get to act. A common example is if two people are firing blasters at each other. Both roll to attack but only the higher roller, who also beats the Difficulty Number, gets the attack off. Other person doesn't.
I think this kind of system could work really well for a martial arts focused game. Add in something like Raises from Savage Worlds where the higher over the difficulty the character gets a bonus or a Stunt system like from Modern Age where characters get points to do really cool Stunts and these Stunts are different martial arts maneuvers... It could be very Kung-Fu.
I dig the idea of their being primacy of action for the victor of a struggle; I think you're on to something there. I'd want some kind of way to draw out the tension though... Exalted Third Edition's "clash" mechanic is a bit clunky, but it gets at the heart of what I want those sort of struggles to *feel* like, you know?
I'm interested in this "segmenting" of the combat round; I never played the d6 star wars (or maybe I did and it was forever ago and I forgot everything about it?). I think there's potential there, but there's also a big possibility for confusion. I find in most fights, players become advantage-seekers; any area in which they can gain "tactical arbitrage" (ie; they can gain an advantage for no cost), I find that they do so. Vague points in the rules, like "which action descriptions create segments?", could lead to scenarios that funnel players into less imaginative (but competitively superior) styles of playing, which I'd watch closely if I were designing it.