Seems like everything I like, most others despise and vice versa. While that may not be a deal-breaker for most of you .... It really makes it hard to find a table to game with.

For instance, I hate the OSR. It's a group of so-called 'writers' or 'creatives' who are just rephrasing the works of better men and trying desperately to make a buck on it. They are not innovative, nor are they any kind of genius.

See what I mean?

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure this is not how you make friends ...

So what RPGs do you like..?

I feel similarly. People are always yapping about games I don't care about. Never about the interesting stuff. But don't think of OSR as having to be innovative, but either as a familiar way of doing things or something nostalgic.

Are you sure you're looking at the right places? This is the Golden Age of the hobby, with new games from all styles being released or kickstarted by the dozens, and old ones getting remakes or re-releases.

What kind of games do you like?

Quote from: Mishihari;1144716I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure this is not how you make friends ...

The last thing I need is another expert ... and I'm not trying to be your 'friend,' Mish.

Quote from: Brad;1144717So what RPGs do you like..?

I used to like D&D when it was still D&D and not completely hijacked by companies, experts, & pundits alike that preferred to dictate to me why their revisionism was so much better than what I was playing before. I don't know, but my old books still read and play fine.

I like Traveller, I guess ...
Too bad most 'fans/players' of the game are so busy laughing at "Muh character died in CharGen" ... (REALLY? like THAT's not worn out ...)
and re-humanizing the aliens (What would a Vargr know about a milkbone anyways ...?)
rather than actually playing the game. Mongoose rulez, I suppose ...

This thread is really more of an observation than whatever you assume it is.

Quote from: brettmb;1144720I feel similarly. People are always yapping about games I don't care about. Never about the interesting stuff. But don't think of OSR as having to be innovative, but either as a familiar way of doing things or something nostalgic.

... how about thieves and con-artists?

Quote from: JMiskimen;1144715For instance, I hate the OSR. It's a group of so-called 'writers' or 'creatives' who are just rephrasing the works of better men and trying desperately to make a buck on it. They are not innovative, nor are they any kind of genius.

I'm not a fan of the OSR either, but mostly because early experiences soured me on TSR-era D&D in general and I ended up playing a LOT of Palladium Books' games (first Robotech, then Heroes Unlimited, Rifts and finally Palladium Fantasy) and then into non-d20 based systems like HERO and World of Darkness before finally giving D&D another try in the WotC era when some friends were doing the Living Arcanis mods during 3e.

The high water mark for D&D as far as I'm concerned was 4E (the last gasp at any innovation in the system, its all nostalgia-farming from here forward... just like HERO turned into), and its probably no accident that I ended up enjoying the version that most feel is also the LEAST like D&D. I loved the Big Damned Heroes (probably an outgrowth of Robotech, Heroes Unlimited and Rifts) way better than I ever enjoyed "Zero to Hero" and I liked that I could finally play PCs that acted like heroes in general fantasy novels instead of acting like D&D characters (which is almost its own genre at this point).

This isn't to say 4E was perfect; it had a LOT of flaws, but there was a very solid foundation to build from and take in other directions (ex. abandoning the narrativist elements... I've always preferred the approach that "stories are what you tell your friends after the adventure is over" when it comes to things like that) that might be more appealing.

My own direction forward was to start writing my own system and do that by questioning every mechanic of 4E and whether it was actually the best way to do something... 4E had a reputation for slaughtering sacred cows, but there were lines even they were unwilling to cross. Then I got a LOT of actual feedback; not just feedback that supported my assumptions, but genuine playtest feedback including being run by other people entirely. You can barely recognize that the current and first iterations of the system are the same game there have been so many changes due to playtest feedback.

But I'm able to find tables mainly because I'm willing to put in the work of running a game. When I actually just want to play something, I find more often than not that the MMO "City of Heroes: Homecoming" is my only viable outlet for player-side creativity.

Quote from: JMiskimen;1144725... how about thieves and con-artists?

There are some pretty good OSR-inspired games. There are thieves and con-artists, but I think most people just want to create something of their own, despite it actually being a retread. There's always a bandwagon to be had.

It sounds to me like you're more fed up with the RPG fandom and production subculture than RPGs themselves, if I may venture a guess. Which would be a perfectly reasonable reaction that many people have had to many fandoms. I myself have lost a lot of enthusiasm for my passions of SF&F over the last few years thanks to the emotional tsuris of the culture wars.

That said, there's no denying that games themselves have also changed in a lot of ways nobody's obliged to like. Part of why original '70s and early '80s games were often so complex and dense was precisely to reward high time investment in the learning curve, and the feeling of accomplishment that came with that. If that's the experience one is looking for I can imagine a lot of modern games being disappointing.

Taking a break is sometimes unavoidable and can even be a good idea; absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that. But any requests for enthusiasm-reawakening ideas will most likely be eagerly answered, if that would help.

Back in the beginning it was all new and expectations were non-existent.
As time went on expectations formed and "Mine Is Better" started.
At some point expectations can't be met and it isn't "Better".
Maybe it is time to step back and re-evaluate the point of playing in the first place.

I don't need New "Better" rules, I need rules I can accept and enough people know to be able to get a group to play.
As I age and my frame of reference is not main stream any more, settings that a large number of people can relate to get fewer.

So, is the change of RPGs really the "problem" or is it the whole gaming context?

What Greentongue said.

I have an acclectic group that tries everything from old-school to new-school to pure simulation to pure narrative, etc. I'm lucky I guess.

Quote from: Greentongue;1144731I don't need New "Better" rules, I need rules I can accept and enough people know to be able to get a group to play.
As I age and my frame of reference is not main stream any more, settings that a large number of people can relate to get fewer.
So, is the change of RPGs really the "problem" or is it the whole gaming context?

I swear, you dumbasses can't read.
I never once said I needed new rules.
I also told you this thread wasn't about what you think it is.
My problem is your presumptions.

Quote from: Itachi;1144744What Greentongue said.

Same goes for you.

My favourite was when the Traveler character died during character creation.

You never see that kind of genius anymore.

Quote from: JMiskimen;1144746My problem is your presumptions.

I presume my presumptions are presumptuous.

You presume I was talking about your needs in more than just empathy of your frustration.