Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on April 27, 2024, 08:01:01 AM

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 23, 2024, 08:26:40 AMIf I could obliterate one OWoD game line so it never existed I'd nuke... Werewolf. But if I had a second, that would be Mage (honestly, with time, I've realized that lorewise the WoD peaked with Hunter's Hunted 1e and everything else with the exception of adding dhampirs has been downhill).

Werewolf does suck in that its an eco-terrorist Progtard's wet dream. I liked Mage, but The Traditions are just 100% wrong. I'm not saying The Technocracy are right, but FFS, the neurotic, bong juice swilling, crystal-waving hippie sexual deviant asswipes in the Traditions are just so fucking stupid. That and you had morons claiming Nikola Tesla (who is really The Godfather of the 20th Century) was an Aetherite.

The only time the damn game made ANY sense was when they declared 'The Technocracy won'. The Ascension War was stupid and bringing it back into play did nothing but make the game developers look like Neo-Luddites.

Mage is fundamentally Woke (Mages are even called The Awakened), which is to say Gnostic, with the underlying concept that if you believe something enough then it is true. It's literally trans-ideology before it got mainstreamed.

Similarly, it is the Sleepers' collective beliefs that most stand in the way of your beliefs becoming truly real. For the woke it is the oppressors (i.e. anyone who doesn't believe in their mental illness) who are preventing utopia (and for the Gnostic it is the masses ensnared by the Demiurge's lies that keep the enlightened from achieving their godhood).

Woke, Gnosticism, and Mage all feed from the same original lie... "You can be God."

The World of Darkness in general also suffers from the problem of having existed long enough for its rebel ideologies to become the establishment, but are unable to let go of the Revolution to see they've actually become the bad guys. The Leftwing nuttery that in the 90's focused on "tolerance and freedom from the establishment" has now reached the point where it now requires intolerance of other ideas and tyranny by the establishment to maintain.

But they won't let the natural rebels actually rebel against the real modern establishment, instead they must rebel even further into Leftist nuttery and maintain the fiction that it is still the 90's establishment and it's ideals who are in charge (ex. Vampire 5e has introduced the 2nd Inquisition backed by Religious and Rightwing elements because they can't have the Totalitarian Left as the villains).

And so they flounder because the underlying structure of their setting has no truth to it anymore. It's collapsed into the same late-stage Marxist hell that every institution which embraces it does. It can't understand that anti-establishment rebellion is now rebellion against them.

But yes, Werewolf should die first because without it's stupid we'd never have gotten to Mage and the other bad ideas (for context, prior to WtA the WoD setting was reasonably coherent and had an objective reality, the Lupines were savage beasts in the wilds akin to folklore, what became Mages were practitioners of various numina; magic paths, psychics, true faith; ghosts, fae, and demons were mysterious otherworldly entities... in contrast to defined playable factions with their own New Age/Gnosticism to push).

Before y'all start shitting on #Reddit you might want to read if not participate in the actual, you know, discussion there which pushes back against this insanity. I guarantee you the lack of validation is why they deleted their post. Meanwhile they have no issue leaving responses like this up on a post in r/rapefantasies so extreme the mods removed it.

This is easily the most hypocritical example of virtue signaling I've ever encountered. It's actually awe inspiring.

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 23, 2024, 08:26:40 AMIf I could obliterate one OWoD game line so it never existed I'd nuke... Werewolf.

Too late, they already did.

Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on April 27, 2024, 08:01:01 AMThe only time the damn game made ANY sense was when they declared 'The Technocracy won'.

They only did that once they shifted their own ideology to authoritarianism.

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 27, 2024, 09:21:58 AMMage is fundamentally Woke (Mages are even called The Awakened),

Pointing that out is what led to my permaban on #RPGNet.

And throughout it all we see the same breathtaking hypocrisy which demands such a profound level of doublethink that I'm all but terrified anyone is capable of it.

Quote from: BadApple on April 26, 2024, 10:40:07 PM

Quote from: Crazy_Blue_Haired_Chick on April 26, 2024, 08:15:16 PM

Quote from: ForgottenF on April 26, 2024, 09:05:34 AM

Quote from: Crazy_Blue_Haired_Chick on April 23, 2024, 08:10:19 AMBruh, my favorite mythologies are Norse, Aztec, and Japanese. Do you think that Xipe Totec could ever be sanitized?

https://mythopedia.com/topics/xipe-totec

What about Tanuki with their ginormous ballsacks?

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.onmarkproductions.com%2Fhtml%2Fslideshows%2Ftanuki-transparent-found-on-web.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=265c2b86e4ccdb3ee12868fc63288812426a1b327fec6231259487e946721234&ipo=images

Of course, all of you already know how problematic Norse mythology is, will all the white people and violence and such!

I don't like Greek Mythology a lot, but that's because it's like a never-ending soap opera/reality tv show where so many mortals and demi-gods get awful treatment for being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Didn't the Mario games already sanitize the Tanuki?

Nobody wants to see those balls...

Pom Poko is the movie that proves you wrong.

Hehe, you have a point.

I don't want OWoD to ever take on Japanese or even any East or Southeast Asian mythology in their games. The Filipinos have dealt with enough bullshit already!

I think the only way to make the idea that 'everyone is god and they just don't know it, knowing it gives you powers' salvageable for a story or game is to make it so that bad people can realize this. Especially bad delusional people. Imagine if Hitler or Stalin or Pol Pot had the powers of a Mage.

Quote from: Crazy_Blue_Haired_Chick on April 28, 2024, 05:31:24 PMHehe, you have a point.

I don't want OWoD to ever take on Japanese or even any East or Southeast Asian mythology in their games. The Filipinos have dealt with enough bullshit already!

Too late. They already did. Kindred of the East and a full on campaign set in modern Asia with some bits lifted from my own RPG because they are hacks.

Quote from: Crazy_Blue_Haired_Chick on April 28, 2024, 05:31:24 PMHehe, you have a point.

I don't want OWoD to ever take on Japanese or even any East or Southeast Asian mythology in their games. The Filipinos have dealt with enough bullshit already!

We've all dealt with enough bullshit and none of us need the White Wolf treatment.  It's been steeped in the hate disguised as inclusion for a long time and being bought out buy other companies isn't going to clean it up now.

In my experience, most people are happy to see others explore their culture in stories and games, even getting it wrong and handling it awkwardly, when it's done with appreciation and love.  I have had a lot of contact with Asians (Filipino, Korean, Chinese in Taiwan, and Japanese) in my life and they've always been happy when I learn about their culture and lives while adopting the things I like or feel work well for me.  Indeed, I have been encouraged in this by the Asians in my life, including my wife.  One of my fun memories of gaming in Japan is when a local brought out a copy of Oriental Adventure and wanted me to run it for the group.

Taking the other perspective, watching how Asians interpret western culture in their media is always fun for me.  It's clear that there is a fascination with the US in particular in Korean and Japanese media.  It's all in good fun and a valid form of story telling. 

Quote from: Crazy_Blue_Haired_Chick on April 28, 2024, 05:31:24 PMI don't want OWoD to ever take on Japanese or even any East or Southeast Asian mythology in their games. The Filipinos have dealt with enough bullshit already!

They did that ages ago.
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Year_of_the_Lotus

Quote from: Omega on April 29, 2024, 12:34:51 AM

Quote from: Crazy_Blue_Haired_Chick on April 28, 2024, 05:31:24 PMHehe, you have a point.

I don't want OWoD to ever take on Japanese or even any East or Southeast Asian mythology in their games. The Filipinos have dealt with enough bullshit already!

Too late. They already did. Kindred of the East and a full on campaign set in modern Asia with some bits lifted from my own RPG because they are hacks.

Quote from: yosemitemike on April 29, 2024, 02:57:30 AM

Quote from: Crazy_Blue_Haired_Chick on April 28, 2024, 05:31:24 PMI don't want OWoD to ever take on Japanese or even any East or Southeast Asian mythology in their games. The Filipinos have dealt with enough bullshit already!

They did that ages ago.
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Year_of_the_Lotus

Well shit.

Quote from: Crazy_Blue_Haired_Chick on April 29, 2024, 08:54:49 AM

Quote from: Omega on April 29, 2024, 12:34:51 AM

Quote from: Crazy_Blue_Haired_Chick on April 28, 2024, 05:31:24 PMHehe, you have a point.

I don't want OWoD to ever take on Japanese or even any East or Southeast Asian mythology in their games. The Filipinos have dealt with enough bullshit already!

Too late. They already did. Kindred of the East and a full on campaign set in modern Asia with some bits lifted from my own RPG because they are hacks.

Quote from: yosemitemike on April 29, 2024, 02:57:30 AM

Quote from: Crazy_Blue_Haired_Chick on April 28, 2024, 05:31:24 PMI don't want OWoD to ever take on Japanese or even any East or Southeast Asian mythology in their games. The Filipinos have dealt with enough bullshit already!

They did that ages ago.
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Year_of_the_Lotus

Well shit.

It was a book set in Japan that started me on an adversarial head on with WW as that is where I discovered they had been "borrowing" from other obscure games. Otherwise its not a bad book. Not great either. And I actually cant remember the name. But it was about playing humans in Japan battling supernatural oriblems. Think it predated Hunter.

Hengeyokai: Shapeshifters of the East was the Werewolf version of Kindred of the East and introduced the Kitsune. Again not bad. Not great. Par for the course really. Never seen the Tokyo or Jade books.

Yes it's silly, though ultimately a person's stupid choice.

Though I think to me most pantheist fictional settings are nothing like actual pagan faiths, bloodless, with out sacrifice or weirdness that came with much of actual religion. and much of pagan faith was orthopraxy not orthodoxy, which is an important distinction, it's why there were may different mystery cults with many different views regarding their gods, but often their practices and ritual were quite similar.

None of that is represented in most RPG settings, having the same God called by different names, let alone different myths which conflict or myth pertaining to those beings, often Myth that is uncomfortable and dark and profound.

I would recommend to those not interested or simply wanting to sanitize pantheist faiths to simply use a monotheist model for their game, at least than you can have an ultimate good being that isn't "problematic" except oh wait objective morality is also "problematic" oh well...

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on April 27, 2024, 01:53:30 PMBefore y'all start shitting on #Reddit you might want to read if not participate in the actual, you know, discussion there which pushes back against this insanity. I guarantee you the lack of validation is why they deleted their post. Meanwhile they have no issue leaving responses like this up on a post in r/rapefantasies so extreme the mods removed it.

This is easily the most hypocritical example of virtue signaling I've ever encountered. It's actually awe inspiring.

Yes, it is a glorious self-own from one's blinding hypocrisy. And yes, reddit mostly had people bat this attention-seeking away as the piffle it is. But... it's still fucking reddit in its manner, sound and fury signaling nothing but now in soporific NPR drone. So I return to shit on reddit for a second time.

You guys should've tried the Chronicles of Darkness reboot. It started in 2004 and was finally canceled a few years ago by Paradox. It took out the stupid stuff, but of course the old guard hated it for existing and it was treated as the red-headed stepchild once WW got bought by video game companies.

It's a real pity. While the Chronicles games weren't perfect by any stretch (this is still White Wolf), they at least tried to do new things rather than wallowing in endless rehashes of the same tired stupid material like 5th edition does.

I did try CoD (or NWoD as it was called back in the day), but I found Awakenin to lean even harder into the Gnostic (and Anti-Christian) bullshit than Ascension did so I dropped it in short order without even looking at the other splats.

These days I'd just build my own system with my own cosmology (I've brought it up before).

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 30, 2024, 05:28:40 PMYou guys should've tried the Chronicles of Darkness reboot. It started in 2004 and was finally canceled a few years ago by Paradox. It took out the stupid stuff, but of course the old guard hated it for existing and it was treated as the red-headed stepchild once WW got bought by video game companies.

It's a real pity. While the Chronicles games weren't perfect by any stretch (this is still White Wolf), they at least tried to do new things rather than wallowing in endless rehashes of the same tired stupid material like 5th edition does.

I quite liked them despite certain things really not liking, I very much disliked how Vigil overtook Reckoning, and how H5 went on to be a copy cat. likewise I liked old Demon more, but every other splat was a marked improvement.

But I've since given up entirely WOD/COFD all together to work on my own OSR inspired takes of them.

Quote from: Opaopajr on April 29, 2024, 09:54:50 PMYes, it is a glorious self-own from one's blinding hypocrisy. And yes, reddit mostly had people bat this attention-seeking away as the piffle it is. But... it's still fucking reddit in its manner, sound and fury signaling nothing but now in soporific NPR drone. So I return to shit on reddit for a second time.

The problem is that every little subreddit is its own little domain really and several of the RPG related ones have some pretty nasty moderators.

This came to light recently
https://www.dndunleashed.com/home/why-we-no-longer-post-content-on-reddit