I Love Vanilla Fantasy!!!

Zachary The First · February 21, 2007, 11:06:41 AM

An excerpt from my design notes for my homebrew world of Irrin:

QuoteSo, here we are. Me publishing a homebrew that such an embarrassingly low number of folks will ever look at that I shudder to place a hit counter on the site, and you having stumbled here, by design or error, I know not (how's that for a grammar teacher's nightmare?).

Why did I create this setting? Why does anyone? I love creating worlds, and for me, Irrin is another home (that's likely why I went easy on the smallpox, plague, and the like while writing it). No doubt there will be those who scan it quickly and dismiss it as another pseudo-medieval waste o' time with the standard fantasy
tropes crawling all over it. And you know what?

They're absolutely right.

Irrin is, in large part, generic fantasy. Evil orcs and trolls, ancient arcana, magic weapons aplenty, roaming bands of misfit adventurers, improbable cities and nations, a plethora of barbarians, and a couple of pantheons thrown in for good measure.

My gaming groups usually consist of an absolute hodgepodge of gamers--old grognards, absolute rookies, D&D fanatic or converts, folks who have only played system X, people who love and/or hate Salvatore, Howard, Tolkien, George R.R. Martin, and everyone else who's ever written anything the least fantastical.

I've made worlds that don't resemble anything having to do with traditional fantasy, and while that's always fun, this world is a shared space. I want it to be an easy entryway into gaming, with familiar elements and themes, for a wide host of folks from extremely disparate fantasy and gaming backgrounds.. But I also want it to be the sort of place where these basic building blocks of fantasy can be
turned into something more deep, complex, and amazing. Vanilla fantasy doesn't have to stay just that one flavor, and "simple" does not always equal stupid.

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HinterWelt · February 21, 2007, 11:11:30 AM

The first step is admitting you have an addiction....

Bill

Mr. Analytical · February 21, 2007, 11:18:13 AM

I'm reading an advanced copy of the new Tad Williams and you're just... derranged. Why can't you have a normal obsession like other kids your age? What's wrong with glory holes or exposing yourself to old ladies? you know... something more wholesome than vanilla fantasy.

Silverlion · February 21, 2007, 11:42:54 AM

I'm rather fond of vanilla fantasy too--if it had been done right in gaming once....maybe I wouldn't be working on one as well. (Although mine is vanilla in "I take folklore, give it a history/setting, and make it real..)

TonyLB · February 21, 2007, 11:44:37 AM

Quote from: HinterWeltThe first step is admitting you have an addiction....

... and the second step is revelling in that addiction.

Right?

Mcrow · February 21, 2007, 12:44:29 PM

thats why I like Tales of Gaea, D&D, and many other vanilla fantasy games.

jdrakeh · February 21, 2007, 04:12:50 PM

I like Vanilla Fantasy, as well -- what I'm not so hot on is publishers and/or authors trying to brand it as Chocolate Swirl. There has been a lot of that action going on over the past year or two, especially where retrofits of old school products that practically forged the term "Vanilla Fantasy" are concerned (e.g., "Wilderlands of High Fantasy isn't Vanilla!", "Castle Zygag isn't Vanilla!", "Aldea isn't Vanilla!", etc).

jrients · February 21, 2007, 04:19:46 PM

Behind door number one is a DM ready to run some adventures in Middle Hyboringya, a vanilla fantasy setting.

Behind door number two is a GM who wants to tell you all about Uniquia, the precious snowflake setting he's been working on for thirty years.

Behind door number three is a GM who will gladly run the World of Productlinia, just as soon as you bone up on the setting material in the core book and design a character that fits the milieu.

My first reaction is to kick in the first door and start slinging dice. It's gonna take one hell of a DM or setting to get me to even consider going through doors 2 or 3.

blakkie · February 21, 2007, 04:25:00 PM

I'll only kick in door #2 after double checking the pilot on my flamethrower. Because I've never seen a #2 that isn't a #3 only with lower 'production standards' (assuming anything coherent is actually written down).

A tip folks: Don't bother even putting up those notices at the FLGS inviting people into your group with that oh so enticing "with my homebrewed setting". If you do you might as well replace it with "I'm infected with the Black Death" to save the confusion.

Akrasia · February 22, 2007, 11:21:05 AM

The reason why I like vanilla fantasy is that it is very 'efficient'. Everyone knows the relevant tropes (dwarves are grumpy miners with Scottish accents; elves are arrogant tree-loving ponces; wizards cast fireballs; clerics are magical medics; etc.). Sure you can twist them around a bit (e.g. 'in my campaign dwarves are the great wizards and elves are the great fighters!'), but so long as the basic elements are in place, everyone can get into the game and playing with a minimum of work.

Quote from: jdrakeh... "Wilderlands of High Fantasy isn't Vanilla!", "Castle Zygag isn't Vanilla!"...

Who's claiming that Zagyg isn't vanilla? It's the original dungeon for D&D, for crying out loud. As far as I can tell, it is the Platonic Form of Vanilla.

Wilderlands might have been 'vanilla' 30 years ago, but these days in is more 'vanilla-with-chocolate-sprinkles'.

Mr. Analytical · February 22, 2007, 11:28:53 AM

Okay, as I said above, I'm reading Tad Williams' new book and despite being two thirds of the way through, I've yet to be engaged or interested. However, in the context of the review I'm writing I want to know what the attraction is for this kind of story.

So, Vanilla fantasy fans... what's the attraction and how do you tell good fantasy from bad?

Balbinus · February 22, 2007, 11:30:35 AM

I think vanilla fantasy has advantages for gaming that in no way translate to literature, so I'm not sure one necessarily has much to do with the other.

Zachary The First · February 22, 2007, 11:32:17 AM

Quote from: BalbinusI think vanilla fantasy has advantages for gaming that in no way translate to literature, so I'm not sure one necessarily has much to do with the other.

Point. Vanilla fantasy in gaming and literature at large are two very different quantities.

Ned the Lonely Donkey · February 22, 2007, 11:33:31 AM

I was going to say that. Playng D&D in the Forgotten Realms is one thing. Reading Forgotten Realms novels is quite another.

Ned

jrients · February 22, 2007, 11:34:40 AM

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalSo, Vanilla fantasy fans... what's the attraction and how do you tell good fantasy from bad?

I don't read the stuff, generally speaking. Vanilla fantasy fiction does not interest me. I take a large amount of Robert Howard, mix in some Tolkien, spice it up a bit with bad comics and cheesy movies, and make my own crappy vanilla fantasy.