There's a whole lot of RPGs out there. I like to play them all. In fact, I'd go as far to say that if there's a game within our hobby, I'll play it. Same goes for the gaming industry in general. I'll play any CCG, minis game, board game, or whatever.

I also judge all my game sunder the rubric of how well they perform their stated function.

That said, I like a lot of Forge games, and Indie games, and all games!  

In particular, I like Dogs in the Vineyard, My Life with Master*, InSpectres, Mortal Coil*, and The Shadow of Yesterday.

In fact, if anyone out there generally dislikes Forge/Indie RPGs for being different from regular RPGs or "not RPGs" you should check out Shadow of Yesterday...it's a solid awesome little RPG that actually looks, smells, and feels like an RPG.

Not so with everything else out of there...but c'mon folks lets show our love (and maybe a little vitriol and hate, because that's fun too) of Indie games!

* I have not actually played it, but it seems awesome.

No thanks. I like games based upon their own merits, not labels.

I have nothing against them. I'm all for giving anything the benefit of the doubt. There's no reason, in my mind, to assume any given game is good or not based on whether it's labeled indie or not.

The thing is, I will admit to not knowing a lot about indie games. If anyone can give a list of what are considered the top indie games, based on whatever criteria you think are worthwhile, with links to reviews or websites where they can be bought, I'll give 'em a look.

A lot of what the Forge community produces just isn't to my liking.  I do, however, really like Lacuna and Burning Wheel.  And there's a decent amount of indie games outside of the Forge community I enjoy.

Other "indie" games?  How about Chad U's Truth & Justice?  If we're talking indie games as in small-press/"creator owned and operated", then yeah, I love Flying Mice's In Harm's Way (which I seriously think just broke into my personal Top 5 RPGs of all time), and JAGS seems pretty cool, too.  I'd also throw in Risus, while we're at it.

I have few illusions about it being a real RPG, but I think Dogs in the Vinyard would be fun, now all I have to do is buy it. Barring that I'd rather try my hand at Burning Empires. The more I think about it, it might be fun to have a more clearly competative game like that.

Most Forge-born games ain't my cuppa.

I have considered a few Wicked Dead products, but since they're a company, they no longer count as Indie/Forge, right?

I am consuming Burning Empire with interest.

What makes it an "Indie game" versus being just a "game"?

I've always taken it to mean that an "Indie game" is one developed "independently."  I've always considered that it was "independent" of big name publishing houses, is that incorrect?

It sounds like if Tom, Dick and Harry develop a game in their basement and choose to create a company to publish and distribute it, then they are somehow not an "Indie game" because they were able to use the business acumen to create a company, arrange publishing and develop distribution?

Please explain this nuance I have somehow failed to grasp!  :confused:

Quote from: gleichmanNo thanks. I like games based upon their own merits, not labels.

I used the label for ease.  I listed the games I like in particular, do you have any thoughts about them?

Quote from: VellorianWhat makes it an "Indie game" versus being just a "game"?

I've always taken it to mean that an "Indie game" is one developed "independently."  I've always considered that it was "independent" of big name publishing houses, is that incorrect?

It sounds like if Tom, Dick and Harry develop a game in their basement and choose to create a company to publish and distribute it, then they are somehow not an "Indie game" because they were able to use the business acumen to create a company, arrange publishing and develop distribution?

Please explain this nuance I have somehow failed to grasp!  :confused:

I think the distinction is stupid, as pretty much any publisher in this industry would qualify as a teeny tiny business anywhere else.  It's not like the executives of WoTC have multiple homes abroad, garages full of fancy cars, and "heir" or "heiress" children.

"Independant" versus "non-Indepedent" in regards to roleplaying is an exercise in "mental wakery" as the Pundit would put it.  The authors of RPGs have a lot more say in the production of them than the writers of other manuals.

So, I would tell you to ignore the nuance, it's an arbitrary distinction.  I'm sorry I used "Indie" in my original post, I just wanted to know what games people play that get very little love on these boards.

Quote from: VellorianI've always taken it to mean that an "Indie game" is one developed "independently."  I've always considered that it was "independent" of big name publishing houses, is that incorrect?

I think this topic got kicked around here, and I think it's a bit more exclusive than that. Who's a "big name publishing house"? Top 5 sellers? Top 10?

There's a wiki article on the topic (here) and here's what it has to say:

Quote from: WikipediaThis community generally defines indie games as those where the creator maintains control of his or her work[1] and eschews the traditional publishing and sales model, though there are exceptions.

Though this is the "forge community" section and it talks about other definitions.

So, Tom, Dick and Harry make a game.  They think it's cool. They write it up, get an artist to illustrate it, ask Harry's mom (the English teacher) to edit it, playtest the hell out of it, ask Tom's brother to lay it out with In Design, create a PDF and put up a blog that talks about it and how their gaming group is using it.  They sell the PDF for $3.

Is that an "Indie game?"

Quote from: VellorianWhat makes it an "Indie game" versus being just a "game"?

I've always taken it to mean that an "Indie game" is one developed "independently."  I've always considered that it was "independent" of big name publishing houses, is that incorrect?

It sounds like if Tom, Dick and Harry develop a game in their basement and choose to create a company to publish and distribute it, then they are somehow not an "Indie game" because they were able to use the business acumen to create a company, arrange publishing and develop distribution?

Please explain this nuance I have somehow failed to grasp!  :confused:

The Forge's definition of Indie is "creator Owned."
The Indie RPG Awards definition is a bit looser - "creator Controlled"

If the person who wrote the game owns/controlls the company, then it's "Indie."

I don't know the details of Wicked Dead's ownership, so I can't say whether that particular company is "Indie" at all. It may be that some of their products are "Indie" and some not.

In my own case, Better Mousetrap Games is a consortium. Each Imprint is operated separately. Flying Mice is an Imprint which is part of Better Mousetrap, as is JimBobOz's Goshu Otaku, Silverlion's Silverlion Studios, and Marco's JAGS empire among others. We are fuzzy under the Forge definition, and Indie under the Indie RPG Awards definition, but prefer the "Small Press" designation as it's less ambiguous.

-mice

Quote from: VellorianSo, Tom, Dick and Harry make a game.  They think it's cool. They write it up, get an artist to illustrate it, ask Harry's mom (the English teacher) to edit it, playtest the hell out of it, ask Tom's brother to lay it out with In Design, create a PDF and put up a blog that talks about it and how their gaming group is using it.  They sell the PDF for $3.

Is that an "Indie game?"

Sounds like one to me.

-mice

My experience with DitV was okay at the time but the more I reflect on it the less I like the game. The last session in particular really put me off. That might have been due to the particular combination of participants, but that's the only consideration that's kept me from up and selling it.

I have MLwM and I think it could be a fun game. I also own Polaris, not on your list but clearly indie by any definition, and after a little bit of play I think it has potential with the right group--essentially, a group of people interested in using it as a tool to shape interactive storytelling. I suspect the game will fall apart instantly if people don't actively help each other out with continuity and "genre consistency", though.

The Shadow of Yesterday is something I'd like to try once I figure out the Bringing Down the Pain rules and a couple of other wrinkles which turn out to be much less clear than they do on first impression. I'm not crazy about the world background but the system itself seems very easy to customize to any adventure-type background. In fact it strikes me as a bit of a Burning-Wheel lite. Hmmm....take the BW Circles/Resources concepts and combine them with TSoY....

I also participated in a con game of The Shab al-Hiri Roach, which I found enjoyable for the most part but frustrating in the way it tried to combine competition with a sort of GM-less freeform ability to introduce elements at players' whim. I don't think those are compatible, and either a more rigid set of procedures, or a more "open" range of outcomes (both of which would make the game more like MLwM, I think) would probably improve the game for me.

Indie(forge) games are hit and miss like most other RPGs.

the biggest difference to me is that most Indie games have some cool mechanical stuff, but the setting or premis is just odd.


small press indie (creator owned/controlled). I like a lot, Flying Mice, Hinterwelt, PIG, and others