If you don't use thieves,

The Shaman · January 31, 2009, 11:13:40 PM

Quote from: Age of Fable;281543My aim in suggesting this was to encourage sneaky tactics - ambushing then running away rather than charging in.

It would never occur to me that that wasn't an option.

Spike · February 01, 2009, 12:50:07 AM

Quote from: Stuart;281500Thieves hit second level faster than other classes - which can make a big difference at low levels.

I doubt a medieval style dungeon door is built like the doors in your house. Not to mention the "otherworldly" nature of an old school dungeon.

Unless the character was a dwarf or had some sort of pre-existing carpentry back-story, I'm not sure it'd go along with something like that either. You could take your axe to the door and try and chop it to pieces if you wanted.

That'd make an awful lot of noise, and take quite some time though... ;-)

I wasn't breaking out a carpentry kit, and I wasn't worried that the Lich was gonna try and, I dunno... BILL ME for the damages. The lovely thing about destruction is that it doesn't require a lot of specialized knowledge

And yeah, I am, or was before I moved, rather famous for circumventing locks and doorknob traps by flindering every door in the dungeon... it saves a LOT of bickering about the 'best way' past the door.

Blackleaf · February 01, 2009, 08:35:58 AM

Quote from: Spike;281550I wasn't breaking out a carpentry kit, and I wasn't worried that the Lich was gonna try and, I dunno... BILL ME for the damages. The lovely thing about destruction is that it doesn't require a lot of specialized knowledge

And yeah, I am, or was before I moved, rather famous for circumventing locks and doorknob traps by flindering every door in the dungeon... it saves a LOT of bickering about the 'best way' past the door.

3.x isn't my preferred version of D&D... but the 3.5 DMG has some good illustrations and stats for dungeon doors if players want to try demolishing them.

Cole · February 01, 2009, 11:26:40 AM

Quote from: Spike;281550I wasn't breaking out a carpentry kit, and I wasn't worried that the Lich was gonna try and, I dunno... BILL ME for the damages. The lovely thing about destruction is that it doesn't require a lot of specialized knowledge

And yeah, I am, or was before I moved, rather famous for circumventing locks and doorknob traps by flindering every door in the dungeon... it saves a LOT of bickering about the 'best way' past the door.

Maybe Video Games are to blame for this. Have years of computer distillations of D&D lulled lazy DMs into assuming a world of conceptually impassable and indestructible barriers? People are going to break and burn things.

A gentle reminder of "that's going to take a long time and make an enormous amount of noise" is polite in some circumstances.

Quote from: Stuart;2815683.x isn't my preferred version of D&D... but the 3.5 DMG has some good illustrations and stats for dungeon doors if players want to try demolishing them.

Handily found toward the bottom of the page here, but keep in mind that OD&D characters aren't going to be able to do enough damage to break things as written.

Age of Fable · February 01, 2009, 03:41:04 PM

Quote from: Cole;281579Handily found toward the bottom of the page here, but keep in mind that OD&D characters aren't going to be able to do enough damage to break things as written.

If I'm reading this right, a character with normal Strength can kick a normal door off its hinges slightly less than half the time (ie it'll usually take 2 or 3 kicks), a good door 3 times in 20 (ie probably takes 6 or 7 kicks), and a strong door never...which sounds about right.

Cole · February 01, 2009, 03:43:35 PM

Quote from: Age of Fable;281618If I'm reading this right, a character with normal Strength can kick a normal door off its hinges slightly less than half the time (ie it'll usually take 2 or 3 kicks), a good door 3 times in 20 (ie probably takes 6 or 7 kicks), and a strong door never...which sounds about right.

That's true. What i mean is that if they're trying to chop a door down with an axe or smash it with a hammer, etc., you'll probably have do modify Hardness.

Age of Fable · February 01, 2009, 03:48:17 PM

Yeah...I'd consider getting rid of Hardness altogether for wooden doors. 15 Hit Points, if you're doing 1-6 damage a combat round with no reduction, would take an average of about 4.3 combat rounds to get through. A combat round is 30 seconds isn't it? So 1 person could bash through a door with a weapon in a bit more than 2 minutes, which again sounds about right (ie the hardness of the door is about the same obstacle as a person defending themselves).

Cole · February 01, 2009, 06:30:32 PM

Quote from: Age of Fable;281620Yeah...I'd consider getting rid of Hardness altogether for wooden doors. 15 Hit Points, if you're doing 1-6 damage a combat round with no reduction, would take an average of about 4.3 combat rounds to get through. A combat round is 30 seconds isn't it? So 1 person could bash through a door with a weapon in a bit more than 2 minutes, which again sounds about right (ie the hardness of the door is about the same obstacle as a person defending themselves).

I think a reasonable way to handle it would be half damage from weapons ill suited to destroying the item in question.

Blackleaf · February 01, 2009, 07:10:00 PM

Quote from: Age of FableIf I'm reading this right, a character with normal Strength can kick a normal door off its hinges slightly less than half the time (ie it'll usually take 2 or 3 kicks), a good door 3 times in 20 (ie probably takes 6 or 7 kicks), and a strong door never...which sounds about right.

Does it say "off its hinges"? I thought it was just "open" a stuck door. :confused:

Quote from: Age of FableYeah...I'd consider getting rid of Hardness altogether for wooden doors. 15 Hit Points, if you're doing 1-6 damage a combat round with no reduction, would take an average of about 4.3 combat rounds to get through. A combat round is 30 seconds isn't it? So 1 person could bash through a door with a weapon in a bit more than 2 minutes, which again sounds about right (ie the hardness of the door is about the same obstacle as a person defending themselves).

I guess if the doors in your dungeon are like a modern interior (aka hollow) door -- then you could do the "heeeeere's Johnny!!!" bit in 2 minutes. If it's the sort of door you'd find on a castle or old fort... no way. Those doors were built to keep out people armed with swords and axes. You're not getting through without a battering ram.*

* Note: All those rooms in dungeons with old benches or tables in them... get the Barbarian to take an end and charge the door. ;-)

Age of Fable · February 01, 2009, 10:52:00 PM

The wood might be rotten...maybe a random table is called for?

Blackleaf · February 02, 2009, 04:53:43 AM

Quote from: Age of Fable;281681The wood might be rotten...maybe a random table is called for?

The doors might be stone too! :-o

I thought I remembered seeing info on doors in "The Ruins of Undermount" (the FR Mega-Dungeon) but when I checked what I didn't remember was that they're all stone blocks that turn on stone pivots!

I could see characters smashing through rotted, light-weight doors without a lot of extended effort. It'd really depend on what sort of dungeon you wanted.

Do a Google Image Search for Castle Door -- something like that made out of heavy oak with lots of iron... that's something else.

Dr Rotwang! · February 02, 2009, 12:27:41 PM

I really like Philotomy's thief but don't have Supp I. Maybe I'll tweak to fit into S&W or C&C...

Philotomy Jurament · February 03, 2009, 04:17:45 AM

Here's some of the missing info on the Thief.

Code Select


1	0        (1d4) or (1d6)
2	1200     (2d4) or (1d6+1)
3	2400     (3d4) or (2d6)
4	4800     (4d4) or (2d6+1)
5	9600     (5d4) or (3d6)
6	20000    (6d4) or (3d6+1)
7	40000    (7d4) or (4d6)
8	60000    (8d4) or (5d6)
9	90000    (9d4) or (6d6+1)
10	125000   (10d4) or (7d6)
11	250000   (10d4 + .5 hp) or (8d6+1)
12	375000   (10d4 + 1 hp) or (8d6+2)
13	500000   (10d4 + 1.5 hp) or (8d6+3)
14	625000   (10d4 + 2 hp) or (8d6+4)
et cetera

Thieves attack as Clerics and Save as Magic Users. If using LBB-style hit dice, I'd give them the Magic User HD progression, as indicated, above.

Dr Rotwang! · February 03, 2009, 03:34:35 PM

You are a rockstar, Philotomy.