Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1135490I would go so far as to suggest the GM collect hard copies of all of the character sheets after the session. So the GM has records to dissuade monkey-business.

In the current campaign, the GM trusts the players to handle their sheets. But honestly? I don't feel comfortable doing updating and paperwork out of the sight of the GM.

Good point... I have generally done this too.  Not as a matter of trust (or lack thereof), but to avoid players forgetting to bring their sheets to the game.  IMHO, if your game has paperwork that needs to be done out-of-hours, your doing it wrong.  But I acknowledge that's part of my distaste for crunchy systems...

Quote from: Tyberious Funk;1135566Good point... I have generally done this too.  Not as a matter of trust (or lack thereof), but to avoid players forgetting to bring their sheets to the game.  IMHO, if your game has paperwork that needs to be done out-of-hours, your doing it wrong.  But I acknowledge that's part of my distaste for crunchy systems...

I told the GM last session that I didn't like doing paperwork out of his sight. That I preferred to do it in his presence. And it made him smile. That a player would insist on that level of honesty. It made the other player happy as well. That I would go to such a length.

It really didn't add any more time to the pregame paperwork than normal. But it reinforced the trust at the table, that I did insist on it.

PC falls on his head and loses all memory. Wakes up not knowing who he is or most importantly, who he was...

Problem solved.

Quote from: FelixGamingX1;1137780PC falls on his head and loses all memory. Wakes up not knowing who he is or most importantly, who he was...

Problem solved.

With Mr Special Snowflake's character it would not. The problem was that the character wasn't built on the same standards as the rest of the player characters were. Unless the GM forced Mr. Special Snowflake to rebuild that character from scratch. With no special rules, no prior social attachments, or resources. The character would have to be reset to flat zero to achieve what you suggested.

And at that point? Mr. Special Snowflake would have just walked while having one of his famous tantrums.

Back earlier in the thread. I illustrated the fact Mr. Special Snowflake built his character to be the world the other characters were forced to orbit. Whether they wanted to be in that position or not. It was a clear piece of group sabotage that we luckily survived.

Mr. Special Snowflake is no longer even in the state. He took off to Arizona without notice. Which he has done for a few years at a time. Before he resurfaces locally again.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1137787And at that point? Mr. Special Snowflake would have just walked while having one of his famous tantrums.

Which would have saved both the game group and Snowflake much time and trouble, and was thus the best possible outcome. Which is why the DM must wear the Viking Hat, and work to ensure the group as a whole has fun despite their best attempts to avoid doing so.

I have tried to resist the curmudgeonly urge, and failed, to point out that this thread is rapidly approaching its third birthday.  If your campaign has persisted three motherfucking years, than clearly this one players/character could not have been that drastic of a game destroyer.*   If not, then you, Mr Kelly, have been dragging this dead horse around longer than the fucking problem persisted.  I am reminded, ever so briefly, of a court case from ancient Egypt, where after twenty years of court cases, a man finally agreed to pay his debt over a jar of olive oil.  At some point he spent more time dodging his debt, and his opponent spent more time attempting to collect said debt, than the money could have been worth to either of them.


I will further point out that the problem player and the problem GM do not post here, to anyone's knowledge.  No poster on this forum has the power to fix your group, much less a time machine to undo the bad GMing that prompted this bitch fest that.will.not.fucking.die.  By your own admission... many moons ago I might point out... this problem has already solved itself.  

I admit that, having vented my spleen, I am inclined to do as Abraham Lincoln reportedly did, and trash this post rather than post it. But if I did that, then this fucking thread is likely to limp on, carried like some martyr's burden, until the heat death of the universe.   By all that is good and just in the world, find something NEW to complain about!  Please, PLEASE, regale us... in a new thread... about how your cat horked a fucking hairball onto your brand new shoes. ANYTHING.

* I will point out that my most wildly spectacular campaign itself only lasted two years (the group persisted for at least five, and depending on incarnations as many as ten), and had not one, but two seperate climactic endings, well justifying the time spent.  It did not last as long as this pathetic thread.... though my bragging about it, admittedly has, with change to spare.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1137813Which would have saved both the game group and Snowflake much time and trouble, and was thus the best possible outcome. Which is why the DM must wear the Viking Hat, and work to ensure the group as a whole has fun despite their best attempts to avoid doing so.

I'm sure he would have found another way of stirring shit up. That's just the type of person Mr. Special Snowflake is.

But to be fair. I'm going to illustrate another dimension to the situation. The GM. The GM came off a fairly recent string of family tragedies. And he mentally wasn't at his best when starting the campaign. So he was definitely taken advantage of in the worst way by Mr. Special Snowflake. The campaign was supposed to be an escape for the GM. To get him mentally out of the negative space he had been in. Mr. Special Snowflake knew this. And proceeded with his sabotage anyway.

Yes, the GM slipped up in some important areas. But I don't fault him for that. Considering what he had gone through. Nobody would have been at their best, having come out of a similar situation. Which is why I cut the GM as much slack as I have.

This isn't just a case of a clueless, abusive, and selfish player. It's the case of outright cruel and malicious action. Someone who was deliberately taking advantage of someone who was in vulnerable condition, and preying on it without mercy. It was done deliberately.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1137908I'm sure he would have found another way of stirring shit up. That's just the type of person Mr. Special Snowflake is.

Sure. But if you lay down things right in the first few minutes of play, if you start strict with no bullshit, that tends not to eliminate the bullshit, but strongly cuts down on it. And of course the Snowflakes sense they won't have an easy ride and after some initial drama they move on. Nothing eliminates bullshit and drama from our lives, but some things can minimise it.

QuoteBut to be fair. I'm going to illustrate another dimension to the situation. The GM. The GM came off a fairly recent string of family tragedies. And he mentally wasn't at his best when starting the campaign.

There's a time a person should GM, and a time a person should be a player. Sometimes someone else in the game group needs to step up.

Darrin, that is why Kyle is harping on best practices. Best practices are there to fall upon, like a safety net, when we are not at our best and/or facing predatory manipulation. The "Viking Hat" authoritarian neutral arbiter is to police all sides of the aisle (invluding themselves) so trust can be earned and grown.

Anyway, this played out surprisingly better than anticipated and the problem locus rooted out. Celebrate and take the right lessons from the experience. There is a wisdom in ritual; it guards against the vagaries of life's sorrows & predators. And with that, also learn from Spike, do not dwell on the negative for you can become lost in your own pain -- come back to the world and rejoice.

Why don't you start a new topic with pictures of all the neat little extras everyone contributes to the game?