I got the PHB2!

Sobek · May 10, 2006, 11:44:33 PM

Quote from: YigThe rules for retraining seems a bit too complicated for nothing.

Retraining doesn't seem too bad. Just enough of a hinderance to keep the munchkin in line. Rebuilding, on the other hand is fucked up. I guess that's fair, too. I have no sympathy for someone who wants to change races.

Yig · May 11, 2006, 12:01:51 AM

Quote from: SobekRetraining doesn't seem too bad. Just enough of a hinderance to keep the munchkin in line. Rebuilding, on the other hand is fucked up. I guess that's fair, too. I have no sympathy for someone who wants to change races.

We're already using house rules for that (say, it cost 1000 XP to change a feat).

And when new books comes out, we allow the players to change stuff to what they would have taken if they had the book when they made the character.

Renna · May 11, 2006, 04:25:23 PM

Quote from: SobekBeguiler looks a bit too good for Rogues to have much of a place, anymore.

I was thinking that at first, except the Beguiler doesn't get a sneak attack. So I'm cool with it. I might play one in an upcoming campaign to see how they work in a real campaign.

kryyst · May 11, 2006, 04:54:31 PM

Quote from: SobekRetraining doesn't seem too bad. Just enough of a hinderance to keep the munchkin in line. Rebuilding, on the other hand is fucked up. I guess that's fair, too. I have no sympathy for someone who wants to change races.

Am I missing something or is there actually a mechanic to allow someone to - in game - change their race? I can see as a result of reincarnation or a wish spell. But you can't just suddenly decide 'I think I'll work at becoming a dwarf'.

kryyst · May 11, 2006, 04:55:32 PM

I didn't have any intentions of picking it up, but I was thumbing through it at a local store. Ultimately I think if you want to add some new game to your D20, True20 seems like much better bang for the buck.

Trainz · May 11, 2006, 05:11:01 PM

Quote from: YigThe rules for retraining seems a bit too complicated for nothing.

Haven't had time to really read the book yet.

I read it.

It's quite simple. Pick something (a spell, a feat, up to 4 ranks in one skill) and WHEN YOU LEVEL UP and change it. No cost, no nothing.

I'm definitely putting that in my game. Forget my house rule.

Trainz · May 11, 2006, 05:12:34 PM

Quote from: kryystAm I missing something or is there actually a mechanic to allow someone to - in game - change their race? I can see as a result of reincarnation or a wish spell. But you can't just suddenly decide 'I think I'll work at becoming a dwarf'.

Heh. Hardly.

It's more some guidelines on how to go about it in your campaign if you would want such a thing to happen. It requires some campaign shattering quest to make it happen, basically to find some locale or artefact that has the power to make the change.

It's all good.

ColonelHardisson · May 11, 2006, 05:19:07 PM

I'm liking the knight so far, quite a bit. The other new classes I don't think much of, really. I'm usually of the opinion that many, if not most, character concepts can be modeled by the core rules by intelligent character generation using skills, feats, and multiclassing. I'd be the first to say a knight could be done that way, but I'm partial to such stuff, so I don't mind this attempt at a knight class. Matter of fact, it really does seem to try to capture the archetype in a way not really possible with the core rules alone.

Trainz · May 11, 2006, 07:20:06 PM

Quote from: ColonelHardissonI'm liking the knight so far, quite a bit. The other new classes I don't think much of, really. I'm usually of the opinion that many, if not most, character concepts can be modeled by the core rules by intelligent character generation using skills, feats, and multiclassing. I'd be the first to say a knight could be done that way, but I'm partial to such stuff, so I don't mind this attempt at a knight class. Matter of fact, it really does seem to try to capture the archetype in a way not really possible with the core rules alone.

2 things I really like about the KNight:

- It has a code of honor with direct, easilly defined triggers and consequences, not some vague philosophy. You attack a foe flat footed, *boom* penalty.

- It has abilities that you can't get otherwise. I think that is very important in designing new classes, otherwise you just might as well multi-class and build your own thing (like you addressed yourself).

ColonelHardisson · May 11, 2006, 07:24:56 PM

Quote from: Trainz2 things I really like about the KNight:

- It has a code of honor with direct, easilly defined triggers and consequences, not some vague philosophy. You attack a foe flat footed, *boom* penalty.

- It has abilities that you can't get otherwise. I think that is very important in designing new classes, otherwise you just might as well multi-class and build your own thing (like you addressed yourself).

Those are the elements that I like about the knight. The code of honor, especially.

Trainz · May 12, 2006, 01:13:02 AM

Quote from: Harry JoyI missed the part regarding spells. Since I am planning out a Sorceror, I was putting some thought into when to switch out which spell for what, especially when Improved spells come available. Just reread the old PHB rules in fact. The PHBII specifically says it's tossing out those rules. Good riddance.

Huh.... no.

PHB2 p. 194:

"A 5th-level sorceror advancing to 6th level could use spell retraining to exchange up to two of his known spells (of any level he knows) for others of the same levels. Then he could exchange one 0-level or 1st-level spell for another just as any could upon ataining 6th level".

Yig · May 12, 2006, 01:26:10 PM

Quote from: TrainzI read it.

It's quite simple. Pick something (a spell, a feat, up to 4 ranks in one skill) and WHEN YOU LEVEL UP and change it. No cost, no nothing.

I'm definitely putting that in my game. Forget my house rule.

Except that in the case of feats, you can only replace one with one that you could have taken at the level of the one you replace. Whew.

No such limit with your system (?).

Ottomsoh the Elderly · May 12, 2006, 03:43:28 PM

Quote from: kryystAm I missing something or is there actually a mechanic to allow someone to - in game - change their race? I can see as a result of reincarnation or a wish spell. But you can't just suddenly decide 'I think I'll work at becoming a dwarf'.

Human character whose player wants it to become a dwarf, I'd say no. Body shape is too different, and both races were available since the beginning. If instead he wants it to become an Azurin, Illumian, Xeph, or Aventi, then yes. Physical aspect is practically the same, the option was not available at first, and you could rationalize it as the character being some sort of exile having hidden its real identity for this long.

kryyst · May 12, 2006, 05:17:23 PM

Quote from: Ottomsoh the ElderlyHuman character whose player wants it to become a dwarf, I'd say no. Body shape is too different, and both races were available since the beginning. If instead he wants it to become an Azurin, Illumian, Xeph, or Aventi, then yes. Physical aspect is practically the same, the option was not available at first, and you could rationalize it as the character being some sort of exile having hidden its real identity for this long.

Ok, under those sorts of circumstances I could see a reason for it. However I don't think you really need a mechanic to do that. Change the stats recalculate the differences and essentially rebuild your character to it's current level but with the alternate race. I mean after all it's huge GM fiat if this should be allowed or not I don't see a need to have rules surrounding it other then that.

Trainz · May 13, 2006, 12:46:31 AM

Quote from: YigExcept that in the case of feats, you can only replace one with one that you could have taken at the level of the one you replace. Whew.

No such limit with your system (?).

I dunno, the situation never really presented itself (we figured that most of the time, the character could have picked the feats in the right order to make it happen anyway).