I've been running a FFG Star Wars game for the last few months, and I've come to really hate the rules. I played this rule set from 2013-2015 and I playtested several products for the line, so I'm very familiar with the system. However, I stopped playing it when I moved in 2015 and only recently came back to it even though I detest pretty much everything about FFG's take on RPGs. This is the first group I formed in this new area (I moved across the country to help out elderly family members) after not playing for almost two years, and the group was assembled for this specific game as I don't personally know or associate with the players outside of this game. They are not going to play another game since they came together specifically for FFG Star Wars, which leaves me wondering if I should keep on running the game or if I should tell them that they need to find another GM while I look for players for another game. In some ways I feel like our connections are almost work-like and that GMing is my non-paying side job. Looking at it that way, my "job satisfaction" is low, but I don't currently have any other "job prospects" so maybe I should keep going until I find another group doing a game I'm more interested in and then I'll cut this group loose. Then there's "no gaming is better than bad gaming" echoing in my head that tells me I should just end it now and have more time and energy to spend on other things.
Any suggestions for dealing with this situation where the gaming group is only a gaming group and has no real social ties beyond that?
Wow, if you are that unhappy, why is continuing even an option?
If a hobby becomes a chore, you have to either drop it or change it, for your own sanity.
I am not familiar with FFG Star Wars, but the main complaints I have read are interpreting the rolls of the special dice that come with it. Too fiddly or something like that, they say.
Well you could tempt them with the 30th Anniversary D6 version of the game that FFG are re-releasing. It's flat out just a better version of the game, with a much easier system.
However, you shouldn't pressurise yourself to play in a group you don't get along with. Yes, sometimes it is hard to get a group together, but no gaming is better than bad gaming. You're only making life miserable for yourself.
Say you're taking a break. Tell the real reason and see if they have interest in trying other game. If so, good for you. If not, wish them a good time with their game and move on. No point in torturing yourself like that.
Quote from: TrippyHippy;999726Well you could tempt them with the 30th Anniversary D6 version of the game that FFG are re-releasing. It's flat out just a better version of the game, with a much easier system.
However, you shouldn't pressurise yourself to play in a group you don't get along with. Yes, sometimes it is hard to get a group together, but no gaming is better than bad gaming. You're only making life miserable for yourself.
I like D6, but they won't touch it. I would
never give FFG money for another D6 product when I already own it and can go to d6holocron for the rest.
Quote from: HappyDaze;999728I like D6, but they won't touch it. I would never give FFG money for another D6 product when I already own it and can go to d6holocron for the rest.
Run what you like, and build your group around that.
I'd like to try running d6 Star Wars however don't have the rules, and only really started playing with d20 SW and went on and adopted SAGA. Both of these work just fine for me, because the first Star Wars games I ever ran in 1978 and 1979, I hacked D&D to run the game, so the d20 mechanics seems intuitive for me to grasp.
If you don't like the game you're running, eventually the game WILL suck.
Just say "I really hate these rules and I'm not having fun. Can we play something else or do you guys want to find a new referee?"
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;999731If you don't like the game you're running, eventually the game WILL suck.
Just say "I really hate these rules and I'm not having fun. Can we play something else or do you guys want to find a new referee?"
This. If you feel that way about the game, it is already dead. You are coasting on fumes. I got this way about one system, to the point that I begin to positively dread game day, and would do almost anything to avoid prepping for it (including distasteful chores I had been putting off). So unless you can milk this feeling to get your garage cleaned out or something similar, the sooner it ends the better. You might be able to limp to a good stopping point. I let my situation go too, and wasn't even able to do that.
How did you get started running a game you hate?
My #1 rule for being a referee is that it has to be a game I want to play. I mean, I'm only doing this for the fun. If gaming is no fun I'll go read a book or do something else I enjoy instead.
Just fess up and admit the system doesn't do it for you anymore, you're going to run another system. Ask them if they want to come along for the ride. If they don't, "Hasta Lasagna - don't get any on ya."
Is this the one with all. The weird custom. Dice where. Each roll can produce like multi results.
Why wont they touch the WEG version? Are they die-hard FFG fans?
If you arent liking the system then all you can do is tell them so and work out a solution. And make it clear that this isnt a snap decision. You are very familiar with the system.
Im in a simmilar problem as locally theres 3e D&D players and Gurps players. But I am ambivalent about 3e and Gurps I just do not like and Im not fond of the company either from past dealing with some of their less pleasant actions. I could DM either easily with a little familiarization. But I'd rather not.
Quote from: Redforce;999724Wow, if you are that unhappy, why is continuing even an option?
If a hobby becomes a chore, you have to either drop it or change it, for your own sanity.
Yeah, this:).
Quote from: GameDaddy;999729Run what you like, and build your group around that.
Also, this is your best option, or at least that's the one I've always resorted to.
And while you're building your new group, don't forget that there are better time to do in the now-freed timeslot than running a game you don't enjoy;).
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;999731If you don't like the game you're running, eventually the game WILL suck.
Just say "I really hate these rules and I'm not having fun. Can we play something else or do you guys want to find a new referee?"
This is the correct, and mature, answer. Listen to his agéd peehole. :D
Quote from: GameDaddy;999729Run what you like, and build your group around that.
Yup. This way you will be passionate about the work, and willing to endure much to accomodate the experience for others' enjoyment.
You are not a computer server. You are not there to serve alone without dissent. And if they find their preferred system so pleasurable, they undoubtedly must be chomping at the bit to run it themselves, too.
I would tell them that you'll be finishing up, but do 1 or 2 finale sessions to wrap things up so everyone leaves satisfied. Definitely don't continue indefinitely. Take a break and plan to start a new campaign in a system you like, inviting your old players and looking for new ones.
Quote from: Omega;999748Why wont they touch the WEG version? Are they die-hard FFG fans?
If you arent liking the system then all you can do is tell them so and work out a solution. And make it clear that this isnt a snap decision. You are very familiar with the system.
Im in a simmilar problem as locally theres 3e D&D players and Gurps players. But I am ambivalent about 3e and Gurps I just do not like and Im not fond of the company either from past dealing with some of their less pleasant actions. I could DM either easily with a little familiarization. But I'd rather not.
One of them is die-hard FFG fans, another dislikes D6 (but would probably play the D20 version, which I don't really like either), ad the third has never played another RPG before but seems to love the "narrative" aspects of the rules (the parts that I largely loathe). The fourth player is my wife, and she doesn't mind the system but isn't really much of a Star Wars fan and wouldn't be too upset if the game ends.
As for having them continue without me, they are welcome to, but I currently own the materials (one guy has a pair of core rule books, but I'm the guy with the rest of the books and the dice and I'm not going to give these away) and the game is hosted at my place which will obviously not happen if I drop the game. So while they're welcome to continue, I feel like I'll be burdening them if I don't give them sufficient notice.
It's not like the group interaction or the roleplaying is bad, but I dread whenever the damn dice are thrown (I really thin a simple success/failure rsult is more to my liking right now), and that dread grows whenever somebody wants to flip a Destiny point for a "narrative" effect. I ran a session for them last night and started with how unhappy I was with the system. After about 30 minutes, two of them just looked at me and said "OK, can we start now?" After a sigh and a facepalm, I ran a half-assed 4-hour session that liked together elements of three premade encounters. It was rather unsatisfying for me, but they loved it.
This has officially gone into the realm of bad gaming, at least for you. Further, it seems from your account that they don't give a shit that you aren't having fun.
Not gaming is better than bad gaming. Pull the plug.
If you want to be generous, say you will run until the end of October. Me, I'd say "Sorry, folks, I'm done." You had the talk, the result was "we don't care about your fun, we want our MTV," and I say "fuck that shit."
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;999880This has officially gone into the realm of bad gaming, at least for you. Further, it seems from your account that they don't give a shit that you aren't having fun.
Not gaming is better than bad gaming. Pull the plug.
If you want to be generous, say you will run until the end of October. Me, I'd say "Sorry, folks, I'm done." You had the talk, the result was "we don't care about your fun, we want our MTV," and I say "fuck that shit."
I'm not sure if they don't give a shit or if they are just really poor at understanding. I'm pretty good at expressing myself--my job demands it--but one of the two players in question barely raises his eyes from his character sheet and seldom speaks more than a single sentence at a time, and the other always seems a bit distracted (we talked about that after the game, he's got a lot of life stresses right now and depends on the game as a release valve). Like I said before, GMing for them sometimes feels like I'm at work.
No matter how you slice it, the answer is still "fuck that shit."
Play some other game, maybe a board game or tile game like Catan. Or Munchkin, hell, that's always good for some laughs and to unwind. Or whatever.
But you're not their therapist or a professional entertainer.
Introduce Doctor Aphra and her droids. Let the droids murder them all horribly. You're happy, the droids are happy, they're unhappy and someone else runs D&D next week. :D
Talk to your wife. She knows what going on.
You clearly already know what to do? Thats why you asked us, becuase you knew what we would tell you. But you don't want to do it for some reason. I don't know ypu so I don't know the reason. But your wife might.
Quote from: Headless;999908Talk to your wife. She knows what going on.
You clearly already know what to do? Thats why you asked us, becuase you knew what we would tell you. But you don't want to do it for some reason. I don't know ypu so I don't know the reason. But your wife might.
Wise words.
yeah. The reason is that i have had trouble fiong a group and i meiss gaming, but this isnto the group form em. shit ive had way too much to tdringk to post right now
actually fucki t since im drinuk iwll just put this outt oo. myu job is ginving me crap becase i stand up for my eplmyees and actually give a crap while they just keep fucking everyone over while trying to say that they care out pur mission of "exenfing the ehealing ministry of chirst (christiank hospital hob( and someohow trying to keeep the eompleuee happy is a bad thibng fuck them. wine awsa good the been now moving to scotch
yest ime frink posting but i dont fucking carrew
Ok then.
A: Tell the players you appreciate that they enjoy your DMing. But you really dont enjoy the FFG system and would like to continue with the WEG system. Make it clear why and possibly give them some time to consider options if any really dont want to continue.
B: Work out converting the PCs to WEG or whatever. The system itself is pretty easy so they shouldnt have too many hurdles. Sounds like your main save here is that only 1 player is really into the FFG system. The others may transfer over with little grumbling if any just to keep playing.
C: Have less stress.
thznk you. i sill resonf modr ewhn im d=sober
You should continue running FFG for that group, regardless of feelings, distaste or rising anger.
The end result should be entertaining.
At least for us.
Quote from: Spinachcat;999925You should continue running FFG for that group, regardless of feelings, distaste or rising anger.
The end result should be entertaining.
At least for us.
fuxk you i men that in the mmost positive sense
Well RPGs are of the devil and likely the source of all problems. :p But I vote cutting booze with soda, slapping on some Album Rock, firing up Frazetta art, and let the sauce ride you to your next campaign inspiration. :)
In some fairness to your players, you advertised FFG Star Wars, they signed up for FFG Star Wars, there's no particular reason to expect them to switch to something else. In fact I've had some of the best games of my life after I got over "group first, agree on a game second" and started recruiting each time for specific games.
But there's also no reason to keep running this. In a perfect world you'd do what the man said upthread and run one or two closing sessions, but it sounds like maybe you've waited for your fed-upedness to outweigh your politeness, instead of having the difficult conversation right away.
Quote from: Dave R;999983In some fairness to your players, you advertised FFG Star Wars, they signed up for FFG Star Wars, there's no particular reason to expect them to switch to something else. In fact I've had some of the best games of my life after I got over "group first, agree on a game second" and started recruiting each time for specific games.
But there's also no reason to keep running this. In a perfect world you'd do what the man said upthread and run one or two closing sessions, but it sounds like maybe you've waited for your fed-upedness to outweigh your politeness, instead of having the difficult conversation right away.
i had the precopnversation then took two weekso ff fof a cacation and then came back and tried to tak to them. my feeling skep gtting mrr negative anf then the last session hammpend.
I would never a run a game that I didn't like. It will never work.
Your options are simple: find people that want to play what you want to run. Or take the bold move in trying to convert your FFGSW players into playing what you're offering. Sure it's unreasonable. But this is RPG's - it's a game. Either they'll come or they won't. No point in engaging in something that will make you unhappy.
Quote from: Headless;999908Talk to your wife. She knows what going on.
You clearly already know what to do? Thats why you asked us, becuase you knew what we would tell you. But you don't want to do it for some reason. I don't know ypu so I don't know the reason. But your wife might.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;999880This has officially gone into the realm of bad gaming, at least for you. Further, it seems from your account that they don't give a shit that you aren't having fun.
Not gaming is better than bad gaming. Pull the plug.
If you want to be generous, say you will run until the end of October. Me, I'd say "Sorry, folks, I'm done." You had the talk, the result was "we don't care about your fun, we want our MTV," and I say "fuck that shit."
Yeah, those two, in that order:).
Also, I always have a mental disconnect when a Referee posts on a forum "I can't change the system 'cause my players wouldn't agree". I know it happens, but around here, when you run, you decide what system and setting to use;)!
Whenever someone says they're drunk online and then make a bunch of writing errors, I think they're faking it. Autocorrect doesn't disappear when you are drunk. And I don't know what part of being drunk actually makes you spell poorly or be unable to check your spelling before posting. I mean sure, being drunk can lead to some typos, but an entire post full of errors? No.
I've posted drunk and was shocked at the typos after. But yeah, it is hard to know if it is legit. Just like everthing on the net.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1000921Whenever someone says they're drunk online and then make a bunch of writing errors, I think they're faking it. Autocorrect doesn't disappear when you are drunk. And I don't know what part of being drunk actually makes you spell poorly or be unable to check your spelling before posting. I mean sure, being drunk can lead to some typos, but an entire post full of errors? No.
To what end? Why would any one do that?
Quote from: RPGPundit;1000921Autocorrect doesn't disappear when you are drunk.
Some of us dont have autocorrect. (so I usually go back and fix any typos I might notice later.)
Quote from: Headless;1000941To what end? Why would any one do that?
Why does anyone do anything fucked up on (or off) the net. Because.
That said. I've RPed with at least one professional published author who for some god unknown reason can barely form coherent words, (or sentences) online. I used to game online with an artist who was not quite that bad but I ended up skill grinding "Read Gibberese" with people like that.
Quote from: Headless;1000941To what end? Why would any one do that?
I have no idea. Some people think being drunk is edgy.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1001466I have no idea. Some people think being drunk is edgy.
I think its frlar more likely he was having a shitty week, got blind stumbling drunk and mashed some keys ranting at a forum. Which is far better than getting in fights or wrapping his car around a tree.
It doesn't cost me anything to assume first that the people posting on this forum are real people with human emotions instead of griefers, trolls, and selfspawning inanimate forum constructs laying 'traps' for me.
Hell, some of those posts were easier to read than the average Headless post. :D
Quote from: Headless;1000941To what end? Why would any one do that?
Attention?
Quote from: CRKrueger;1001489Hell, some of those posts were easier to read than the average Headless post. :D
Sadly yes. If only there was some technology available that would help eliminate spelling errors.
Quote from: Bren;1001536Sadly yes. If only there was some technology available that would help eliminate spelling errors.
That's what I said.
Quote from: Bren;1001536Sadly yes. If only there was some technology available that would help eliminate spelling errors.
You guys get the post after the spell checker is done. There are major improvements before ypu even see it.
Quote from: Bren;1001536Sadly yes. If only there was some technology available that would help eliminate spelling errors.
Problem with a spellchecker is that someone has to use it.
Quote from: Headless;1003327You guys get the post after the spell checker is done. There are major improvements before ypu even see it.
Case in point. :D
Quote from: HappyDaze;999723In some ways I feel like our connections are almost work-like and that GMing is my non-paying side job.
It definitely sounds like you are not having fun at all. You should stop playing in my opinion. You have no obligation to continue at all.
Without going in to much detail Ill say that being a GM should be a rewarding experience, it seems to me that this kind of "reward" is missing here.
I tend to only play with friends. We usually thank the person responsible for being a GM at the end of a session for the hard work he put designing or reading an adventure. Especially now that we are older and time is more precious.
GM is not an "amusement park", he is the most important member of the group and he puts the most work for the enjoyment of all. If your players enjoy the game and your "style" as GM then they shouldn't have much problem changing system.
I ran the last session of this game tonight. I had originally intended two more sessions, but the will to go on has totally left me and the players understood. The three of them are considering continuing it without me and my wife, but they are also asking what I am considering running next. I don't have an answer for them, and I'm going to take my time thinking on it. In the future, I'll be damn sure to avoid FFG games and any others with such obvious narrative mechanics.
Side note: Drunken posts from a few weeks back were a combination of work stress, a bad gaming session of trying to blow off steam, and the fact I haven't drank much for the last seven or so years. I type on a laptop, so no autocorrect and I didn't bother with the spell check--I was typing fast and just hitting reply without caring what crap I put on the screen. Made one post to my online class in that state too. Results were interesting...
Another side note: I've discovered that I no longer seem to like anything Star Wars. I'm not sure if it is specifically because of this game or if it is because of what's been done with it over the last few years (I don't like Force Awakens at all, and Rebels annoys me more often than not).
It's fine, thanks for the explanation anyway. I am glad you are walking away from such an unhappy table. It's best for you and them, and they seem to really enjoy your company beyond this RPG. That'd count for something. :)
What was it about FFG you didn't like anyway? You like a more simulationist game like D&D? (Not that it is super simulationist either.)
Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1004958What was it about FFG you didn't like anyway? You like a more simulationist game like D&D? (Not that it is super simulationist either.)
I hate the weird results that can occur with every roll, and the system calls for a roll with almost everything. You want to buy a new blaster pistol? Oh, multiple threat--the vendor recognizes you and reports you to the Empire/Hutts/your ex-wife. You want to modify that new blaster pistol? Oh, multiple advantage--you, um...fuck it, you modified it what more do you want?
It's also absurdly non-lethal. We had a group of four characters take multiple blaster rifle shots, and by the end of the encounter, the medic had used stimpacks and some first aid to remove all of the damage and most of the critical hits. It was like a bad joke that there is almost no threat of death or serious injury in this game unless the enemy keeps pouring fire into your downed body. Yes, I know that a lot of games have this issue, but it just strains my acceptance that our moderate-XP medic could have had Anakin/Vader back on his feet within minutes of him completing his duel on Mustafar.
I hate the character advancement in this game. Talent trees are cancer, and I hate the disconnect between PC and NPC stats. PCs have to have a massive grab bag of loosely associated Talents to raise Characteristics and Force Ratings, but NPCs can get there (and beyond) with no time wasted on questionably useful Talents that rapidly get cumbersome to keep track of. Many of my players would much rather have the same simplified stat blocks that NPCs have.
Equipment escalation--largely through attachments and modifications--is the norm in this game. It's not all that hard for PCs to have gear that is absurdly overpowered with just a bit of effort (and either lucky rolls and/or credits to burn). Encounter balance can go to hell way too quickly when the good guys have tricked out heavy blaster rifles doing Damage 13 (Pierce 1) with Accurate 1 and Auro-fire that has been Jury Rigged to activate on a single Advantage. No, not every PC has one of these, another has Quick Draw and a few other Talents that allow him to fastball special AP grenades two at a time right into his opponents' faces. Another has weapons with Concussive that let him "stun-lock" tough opponents and effectively remove them from an encounter well before they're actually downed--really cheesy when it takes down BBEGs without any real challenge.
Sounds to me like you want episodes 4-6 and not episodes 1-3 sort of things. Also a completely different system. ;)
As for the roll for everything, that's the sort of thing you can pretty freely ignore at a whim. Tell that system it's not your supervisor and it can't make you roll. Just handwave that.
Also sounds like you want more direct control over the character with less silos. Something with some more customizability perhaps? Something where skills and powers are not locked up very much. How do you feel about classes and archetypes?
Equipment escalation is something that can be GM controlled. Just don't make them available. However, some system sjust don't offer it.
As for deadliness, there are quite a few systems that do this better. That level there sounds really amazingly not lethal. For comparison, the RQ6/Mythras supplement for the same universe would not be able to fix Anakin at Mustafar. Stabilize him, sure, but he would not be able to operate (Major wounds on his limbs) without a med bay and replacing them. Less serious wounds hold be fixed but it would take a bit to get done. Weaponry is a fair chunk deadlier as well... Han Solo's heavy blaster pistol would be pulling 1d10 against body parts in the 4-7 range and those storm trooper rifles are looking at a 2d6 shot.
Anyhow, I would figure out what you didn't like and steer away from that, find stuff that moderates or eliminates it.
Lastly, I was amused by your drunken posts. Been there, done that, appreciate the sentiment.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1004849Another side note: I've discovered that I no longer seem to like anything Star Wars. I'm not sure if it is specifically because of this game or if it is because of what's been done with it over the last few years (I don't like Force Awakens at all, and Rebels annoys me more often than not).
Been there, done that, burned the T-shirt trying to forget. Seeing the man behind the curtain is one thing. Having the man run out, grab the curtain, and wave it around like a bad bull-fight dance number while taunting you with, "Hey, I'm the man formerly behind the curtain," not only is annoying, it calls into question all past enjoyment with the thing. Lucas and those associated with him have a mini time machine. They have the ability to retroactively make even the earlier, good parts of their work stink.