What is the minimum acceptable reason for your group, for missing a gaming session. Is "I didn't feel like it" acceptable, or what?
RPGPundit
If they don't feel like it, I would just tell them I wouldn't want them to trouble themselves, so they can not come again next week.
Aside from that, it's like any social thing. Family, sickness, etc.
The house rule is that if there's less than 24 hours' notice, they must bring a sixpack next session.
Quote from: RPGPundit;386131What is the minimum acceptable reason for your group, for missing a gaming session. Is "I didn't feel like it" acceptable, or what?
If one had to resort to "I didn't feel like it" to avoid gaming sessions multiple times, one mind as well just quit and find another game.
I've found over the years that whenever I'm at the stage of using the excuse of "I didn't feel like it" to avoid gaming sessions, there's usually some deep chronic problems with the gaming group already. Dropping a dysfunctional gaming group is easier to do, than having to deal with the prolonged chronic problems of the group.
Yeah repeated "I just didn't feel like it" is pretty much an uninvite from me, conditionally.
"I didn't feel like it because of xyz medical reason" is one matter.
"I didn't feel like it because, y'know, I just didn't feel like gaming"...we'll have a talk.
"I didn't feel like it" is a perfectly acceptable reason for me.
If "you don't feel like it" for more than a game in a row, I'll get the hint and just tell you to not bother next time - not out of spite, but to clarify in a "it's okay if you don't like the game, y'know?" kind of way.
It depends on how often it occurs. If someone doesn't want to play, articulates that, does so without disruption and before the game, no problem. If they keep choosing not to show up and do so with some frequency, it's time for a discussion and some thought about not playing.
Seanchai
Seems like a lot of the onus is being put on the guy not showing up. I would reverse that somewhat and say it might be a problem with the game/GM as well. Discussion is required, but be aware it might be a failure to engage on the part of the ref as much - a bored player, perhaps.
The problem with using "I didn't feel like it." as an excuse is one of social conventions. The implication is player cares so little about your game he can't even be bothered coming up with an excuse.
If you are not in the mood, showing up for the game isn't such a great idea for you or the other players. But the least you can do is throw in a "Sorry, my wife had this thing a work and I had to stay with the kids." as a sign of respect to the GM. He doesn't have to believe you, but you just have to make a token effort to smooth things over.
Or at least that's the British way.
With my last couple of groups there was an understanding that if enough ppl didn't feel like we would just hang out, watch a movie and get fucked up together. Sometimes one person not feeling like it was enough; I'm easy that way.
If they don't feel like it I'd rather have them not show then show up and make everyone else "not feel like it" too. If they constantly not feel like it and are a friend then I'll ask about the why. If I don't care then, well I don't care for them to come back anyway.
Quote from: Soylent Green;386167But the least you can do is throw in a "Sorry, my wife had this thing a work and I had to stay with the kids." as a sign of respect to the GM. He doesn't have to believe you, but you just have to make a token effort to smooth things over.
Then, instead of the problem resting, at least potentially with the GM or game, you get a reputation, probably for lying.
Seanchai
I'm just saying this is the way it's done, I'm not saying it's right :-)
Quote from: Seanchai;386181Then, instead of the problem resting, at least potentially with the GM or game, you get a reputation, probably for lying.
Seanchai
Maybe it's because I'm British too, but these little white lies are the glue that holds society together! Saying "I didn't feel like it" flat out is really rude and disrespectful even if it's true, whereas saying "My wife was sick and I had to take the kids to football practice" or whatever may be an obvious lie but at least it shows you care enough not to want to seem hurtful or rude.
Quote from: noisms;386185Maybe it's because I'm British too, but these little white lies are the glue that holds society together! Saying "I didn't feel like it" flat out is really rude and disrespectful even if it's true, whereas saying "My wife was sick and I had to take the kids to football practice" or whatever may be an obvious lie but at least it shows you care enough not to want to seem hurtful or rude.
I'm fine either way, personally, though I kind of detect these sorts of "white lies", as you call them. If that happens regularly, I'd expect my friend to show a further level of respect by cutting the crap at some point and telling me what's wrong with the game, whether s/he doesn't like it, or the people involved, or just wants some time for him/herself, or has other interests or issues on the side. We could then try to work it out, and if not, then at least we know what's going on. That's all cool with me.
I used to care a lot about this sort of thing.
This was before I fully realized that people who "don't feel like coming" are just going to drag the game session down into the sewer and not give a crap about doing so, epecially if compelled to be there. Stay home I say. The band will play on without you.
If it becomes a regular bailout then I'd just stop extending the invitation.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;386150"I didn't feel like it because, y'know, I just didn't feel like gaming"...we'll have a talk.
Another reason I have short, closed-ended campaigns. If someone's a bit down on gaming but there's just another few sessions to go, they'll usually stick it out and have fun anyway. Then they can give the next campaign or two a miss.
I have some guys who never get tired of it and want to be in every campaign if nothing else is keeping them busy. Then there's one or two who basically just want to game for about three months a year. And that's okay.
Quote from: Seanchai;386162It depends on how often it occurs. If someone doesn't want to play, articulates that, does so without disruption and before the game, no problem. If they keep choosing not to show up and do so with some frequency, it's time for a discussion and some thought about not playing.
Seanchai
I'm with this one. Mainly because I've used the "I don't feel like it" excuse one time. Had a bad day and just didn't feel up to socializing that night with anyone and I stayed at home curled up on the couch watching SciFi all night. But I only used it once and I'm one of those who rarely misses a game without giving lots of notice (y'know letting them know my mothers birthday party is a month away and I will not be able to make it that night).
The folks who use it all the time are the ones you just stop inviting to the game. We've done that as well.
Actually i've had that at times, but my players always gave reasonable reasons when i asked them why they "didn't feel like it".
It's just common courtesy really. If someone's gone to teh trouble of setting up a game (ie the GM) then giving proper notice is the polite thing.
As long as they give some notice if possible, I don't care. As long as 50% of the group is there, we'll play. If someone misses several games in a row, then I will have a friendly talk to him to check if everything's fine. Sometimes the game doesn't click for someone, no big deal.
Our group is all over 30, have gamed together for over a decade, and all have busy lives. We've had a player miss because after a long day of driving all over three counties to take care of the kids on his CPS route, he pulled over for a break and woke up several hours later. We've also had people miss because the rules arguments were getting too personal and taking too much time and they didn't feel like being there for them. But whatever the reason, "sorry, dude, you missed 2 weeks in a row so you're out" just wouldn't work for us.
If players started habitually ditching the games I was running, I'm thankfully at the point in my life where I can start asking "what can I do to keep them here" instead of "what can I do to get them to not come back".
Quote from: noisms;386185Saying "I didn't feel like it" flat out is really rude and disrespectful even if it's true, whereas saying "My wife was sick and I had to take the kids to football practice" or whatever may be an obvious lie but at least it shows you care enough not to want to seem hurtful or rude.
It might be a cultural thing. It doesn't seem more polite to me to lie than tell an uncomfortable truth. To my mind, it's the lie that's disrespectful, particularly when it's transparent. I believe it's possible to get across the idea that you simply don't want to be there without being an insensitive asshat.
Seanchai
Quote from: Seanchai;386311It might be a cultural thing. It doesn't seem more polite to me to lie than tell an uncomfortable truth. To my mind, it's the lie that's disrespectful, particularly when it's transparent. I believe it's possible to get across the idea that you simply don't want to be there without being an insensitive asshat.
Seanchai
I agree. It's totally cultural. In my experience Americans tend to value honesty where British people tend to value not rocking the boat, although maybe less so these days.
Then again I lived in Japan for 7 years, where not rocking the boat is the ultimate aim of society, so perhaps my vision is skewed!
Quote from: noisms;386312It's totally cultural. In my experience Americans tend to value honesty where British people tend to value not rocking the boat, although maybe less so these days.
I think so. I have a British friend who I used to game with me and that's what he did. He was sick a lot. We all knew he wasn't sick and, to be blunt, his reputation and at least my desire to game with him suffered because of it.
If you tell me you're sick when you're not, you rob me of the opportunity to fix what's gone wrong if you're not showing up because of me or the game.
Seanchai
I dunno; thinking on it a bit, I guess "I didn't feel like it" covers a pretty broad spectrum of reasons.
"I didn't feel like it" - because my character isn't the center of attention this week...is...kinda lame.
"I didn't feel like it" - because I occasionally find your game boring - yeah, leave (one player doing this is one person finding it not to their taste; many not doing it and yes I as the DM need to reevaluate myself)
"I didn't feel like it" - because I feel like you're picking on my character to have bad things happen...see above.
"I didn't feel like it" - because meh, I just didn't want to bother? Hit the road.
So long as you give me some advance notice, I really don't care why you have to miss the game.
Quote from: Novastar;386373So long as you give me some advance notice, I really don't care why you have to miss the game.
Advance notice is always better than calling right before the game or just not showing up at all.
After reading the title of the thread, I thought it was going to be about something totally different.
I had the distinct advantage of, for three years, living in the same house with the rest of my gaming group. So none of this nonsense would happen. We once assaulted a guy in bed when he was late to the table.
Nowadays, however, I accept even lame excuses. "I don't feel like it" would not be tolerated for long, but I try to host a fun game, not something that begins to feel like a burden on our schedules.
Again, it's easy for me because these are my best buds. If one or two people completely shaft our plans, there's always Descent to hold us over.
Quote from: PaladinCA;386384Advance notice is always better than calling right before the game or just not showing up at all.
That however is completely different IMO, and there, I actually make it a point to write it down in the players' document in the basic rules for the game table (if I bother to write such a document - it's not always the case): if you're not going to make it,
phone in advance. It's basic politeness to let people know when you will not be making it as a social gathering.
It annoys me to no end when people don't bother. It's completely disrespectful.
For me, "I didn't feel like it" is just about the worst possible excuse you could give short of not giving an excuse at all and just not showing up.
My players understand that playing in my campaign is a commitment. Lots of reasons for not coming are excused, this one would not be.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;386621Lots of reasons for not coming are excused, this one would not be.
RPGPundit
You think the outcome would be better if the player showed up anyway and ended up sitting there like a dead weight during the whole game?
Quote from: Benoist;386650You think the outcome would be better if the player showed up anyway and ended up sitting there like a dead weight during the whole game?
You're ignoring the third option, which is that the player gets over not feeling like it, and contributes regardless.
I don't want to sound harsh, but "not feeling like it" is usually an emotional state which dissipates after about five minutes of activity. If ever I'm not feeling like it at the beginning of a session I'm usually raring to go once things get properly started and the dice are rolling.
Quote from: noisms;386669You're ignoring the third option, which is that the player gets over not feeling like it, and contributes regardless.
I think that's likely, too. However, I'm not a therapist. If someone doesn't want to come, I'm not going to try and talk them into coming, knowing they'll feel better in a bit.
Seanchai
Quote from: noisms;386669I don't want to sound harsh, but "not feeling like it" is usually an emotional state which dissipates after about five minutes of activity.
Sure. OR it may be a warning sign for much deeper trouble. OR anything in between. I've been counselling people who were victims of abuse. It really depends on the situation, tone, context, cues you're picking up.
If I believe the player may just get over it by coming over, eating some cheetos and rolling the fucking dice, I'll sure insist a bit. But at the same time, it's not my job to just keep poking people who don't really want to come have a good time in the first place. If people really don't feel like it, I respect that. I don't really know why it is such a big deal, actually, in and of itself.
Is it really fair to require such a level of investment on the players' part?
Quote from: Benoist;386680Sure. OR it may be a warning sign for much deeper trouble. OR anything in between. I've been counselling people who were victims of abuse. It really depends on the situation, tone, context, cues you're picking up.
If I believe the player may just get over it by coming over, eating some cheetos and rolling the fucking dice, I'll sure insist a bit. But at the same time, it's not my job to just keep poking people who don't really want to come have a good time in the first place. If people really don't feel like it, I respect that. I don't really know why it is such a big deal, actually, in and of itself.
Is it really fair to require such a level of investment on the players' part?
I'm not saying I wouldn't respect somebody saying they didn't feel like it if I sense there was some deeper issue. It's not as if you can insist they show up, anyway.
The excuse itself just bothers me, though. As we've discussed in the thread it might be a cultural thing, but saying "I don't feel like it" is, to me, a bit like saying "Your game just isn't very interesting or important to me". This may be true but it's rude to say so. Personally, if I
really didn't feel like it due to some personal issue, I would rather make up some sort of "dog at my homework" excuse rather than risk hurting the DM's feelings by flatly saying I didn't feel like it.
Quote from: noisms;386683The excuse itself just bothers me, though. As we've discussed in the thread it might be a cultural thing, but saying "I don't feel like it" is, to me, a bit like saying "Your game just isn't very interesting or important to me". This may be true but it's rude to say so. Personally, if I really didn't feel like it due to some personal issue, I would rather make up some sort of "dog at my homework" excuse rather than risk hurting the DM's feelings by flatly saying I didn't feel like it.
Personalities and cultural makeups have everything to do with it. I agree.
I'm a Frenchman, and a rather plain, direct kind of guy in person. I like to talk, say what I mean, mean what I say. To me, making a "dog at my homework" excuse is actually a sign you are not trusting me, as a friend, to understand where you're coming from and not make a big deal out of whatever you think about the game, or issue you have on the side, etc. You got to trust me and tell me what's going on. From there, I can react properly. Just masquerading things to not hurt my feelings is kind of insulting to me.
Your equivalence is interesting here:
Saying "I don't feel like it" is, to me, a bit like saying "Your game just isn't very interesting or important to me".Maybe expecting all the people that sit at your game table to actually like what you're doing is setting yourself up for disappointment? I mean. Isn't it too high an expectation to begin with? Aren't you too hard on yourself (and thus, later on, on the players pointing out they don't feel like playing your game) from the start?
Quote from: RPGPundit;386621For me, "I didn't feel like it" is just about the worst possible excuse you could give short of not giving an excuse at all and just not showing up.
Agreed. Among my associates, "I didn't feel like it" is an excuse that ceased to be acceptable for dodging
any obligation once they all became tax- and bill-paying adults with jobs and responsibilities. Since they're all in their 40s, I neither want nor need to hear this one. "I had a crap day at work and felt like dying" is fine; I can empathize with migraine, fatigue, etc. Even so, call in advance. There's no reason in 2010 – when everybody I know has a land line, one or more mobile devices, and broadband Internet, and could call, SMS, e-mail, IM, Skype, etc. – not to take 30 seconds to say, "Yeah, this day is shite. I'm going home to cry."
Quote from: RPGPundit;386621My players understand that playing in my campaign is a commitment.
Yes again. It's a social obligation. It shouldn't matter whether we're having dinner, going to the pub, taking a day trip somewhere, or playing RPGs . . . pencil it in, and once it's pencilled in, treat it like any other obligation. This means telling friends who offer other activities afterward, "Sorry, I have something pencilled in on that day." It definitely means calling if you can't make it. Treating gaming as a second-class obligation doesn't say anything good about a person's values; the
activity might be frivolous, but the
obligation is not. As the GM, I've made preparations, set aside time in my schedule, and made space in my home, just as I might for a dinner or a cocktail party.
Why is an excuse even necessary? All I need to hear from my players is "I can't make it to the next session, sorry." I don't really need a reason why. If it's a repeat occurrence I may ask "Is everything okay?" but I don't demand an answer.
Quote from: Pete;386722Why is an excuse even necessary?
In some places and contexts, it's considered polite. If someone tells you, "I spent three hours getting this meal ready, set aside my entire Saturday evening for the dinner party, and tidied up for guests," then you owe them at least that much detail in return if you can't show and therefore stand them up – it's tit for tat. The situation is in no way different when that person says, "I spent three hours prepping for our game, set aside my entire Saturday evening for the session, and tidied up for guests." If your games aren't at least that formal and organized, then perhaps no excuse
is necessary. However, my games are that formal and organized . . .
I can see that, but IMO I think this is where a host just has to trust his guests. If they can't make a social function, then I just assume they have a good reason for it. I mean, at the end of the day, the game's going to miss a player, it doesn't really matter to me if it's because the they're too hungover or if their grandma died...well I'd show concern for the latter at least...
That really matters if you game with friends, or just fellow gamers.
I generally don't hang with any of the people I game with, except every other Sunday for game day.
Me and one of the players grab dinner after the game, and I ocassionally hook up with them for MMO stuff (i.e. "Let's try out Star Trek Online! ...ok, I'm done."), but married with 2 kids means I'm usually too busy otherwise.
Quote from: Novastar;386788That really matters if you game with friends, or just fellow gamers.
True. I game exclusively with friends I
do hang with. We're 40-somethings who witness each others' contracts, help each other solve household/job/tax problems, share wine-tasting tips, housesit, invite each other to dinner/cocktail parties, etc. My wife of 20 years is in the group, and she fills in as the nanny to another gamer's daughter. I haven't done pickup gaming with strangers, or with people I see only for gaming, since c. 1989. Shoot, I've been gaming with one of these guys since 19
79. These are all people I know well enough to ask, "How's the Lasik healing?", or, "Did you get that $5,000 refund?" – and they're the same with me – so I think nothing of expecting to hear the real reasons for an absence rather than a vague deflection.
Any games I run from here on are going to be casual, drop in and out, episodic type games anyway, so I wouldn't really care.
But I understand that other people feel differently, and that's cool. What's best for one game group isn't necessarily best for all.