Fun certainly trumps all.  Usually, an important part of the fun is effective emulation and immersion. However, the ultimate test is whether you 'got away with it' in terms of the players' reactions.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1035143Fun certainly trumps all.  Usually, an important part of the fun is effective emulation and immersion. However, the ultimate test is whether you 'got away with it' in terms of the players' reactions.

OK, I'll admit I didn't quite expect this reaction. But I think we can all agree that fun trumps all, indeed;)!

Also, I'm glad to report that the player managed the investigation to her usual stellar standards after that incident. This being my variant of Erisa, she's now looking for a man that's hiding in "mafia land"!

Well, the other side of the coin is that if you engage in certain types of bad habits, you may get away with it once or twice, but the tendency will be that at some point you'll be getting yourself into problems.

Quote from: AsenRG;1035448OK, I'll admit I didn't quite expect this reaction. But I think we can all agree that fun trumps all, indeed;)!

Quote from: RPGPundit;1035760Well, the other side of the coin is that if you engage in certain types of bad habits, you may get away with it once or twice, but the tendency will be that at some point you'll be getting yourself into problems.

I think this is an important thing to recognize about a lot of when we talk about what I will call 'big gaming theory' -- even if we have Big Damn Opinions about what is and isn't a good idea (particularly about things like railroading, story-gaming elements, DM fudging, etc. etc. etc.) or the like, we are mostly talking about what we consider best practices, based on the opinion that consistently violating them will either eventually fail/be noticed/otherwise end up with dissatisfied players.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1035808I think this is an important thing to recognize about a lot of when we talk about what I will call 'big gaming theory' -- even if we have Big Damn Opinions about what is and isn't a good idea (particularly about things like railroading, story-gaming elements, DM fudging, etc. etc. etc.) or the like, we are mostly talking about what we consider best practices, based on the opinion that consistently violating them will either eventually fail/be noticed/otherwise end up with dissatisfied players.

Yes, exactly. Whether accident or intentionally, a GM can get away with a lot of stuff for a little while. Just not all the time.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1035760Well, the other side of the coin is that if you engage in certain types of bad habits, you may get away with it once or twice, but the tendency will be that at some point you'll be getting yourself into problems.

That's why I dislike such actions as I had to take. Some things, like fudging for a perennial example, do spoil the game for me, even with one application:).
But it was the right decision in this case, as the continuing campaign shows;).

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1035808I think this is an important thing to recognize about a lot of when we talk about what I will call 'big gaming theory' -- even if we have Big Damn Opinions about what is and isn't a good idea (particularly about things like railroading, story-gaming elements, DM fudging, etc. etc. etc.) or the like, we are mostly talking about what we consider best practices, based on the opinion that consistently violating them will either eventually fail/be noticed/otherwise end up with dissatisfied players.

Sometimes yes, that's how it works.
And sometimes, even once is too much, and you're taking a risk every time you'redoing it. Depends on who you're playing with.
So it's best to stick to the best practices, if you ask me:D!

Quote from: RPGPundit;1036060Yes, exactly. Whether accident or intentionally, a GM can get away with a lot of stuff for a little while. Just not all the time.

And then there are the people that are convinced they can get away with it all the time.
I keep suspecting that it's actually more of a case of their players not minding;).

Quote from: AsenRG;1036216And then there are the people that are convinced they can get away with it all the time.
I keep suspecting that it's actually more of a case of their players not minding;).

That sounds like they are getting away with it then.

QuoteSo it's best to stick to the best practices, if you ask me!

Yes and no. I say that because we're talking about a game. I work at the intersection of healthcare, information technology, and law. Not only do you have best practices, but they are well documented, you run the practices (as documented) by the handy-dandy legal team, get their stamp, and then do not deviate from those practices what-so-ever. TTRPGs are not this. They are games. They exist to be fun endeavors. As Pundy points out, fun trumps all. The reason to stick to best practices is because they tend to work against shortcuts one might otherwise be strongly incentivized, but eventually will end up causing a lack of fun event to occur. However, if your players don't mind (or are at least very forgiving in the 'oh look, your shortcut finally caught up with you, alright, let's all pretend that never happened and figure out how to move on' kind of way), maybe not. Regardless, your specific 'transgression' seems most like someone on a diet explaining how Saturday afternoon gaming is their 'cheat day' where they can have chips and sugared soda -- you don't really need to convince me that it is (or isn't) wrong -- the scale won't lie at your next weigh-in.

Quote from: AsenRG;1036216And then there are the people that are convinced they can get away with it all the time.
I keep suspecting that it's actually more of a case of their players not minding;).

Or of players in a situation of having to choose between mediocre RPG campaigns or none at all.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1037012Or of players in a situation of having to choose between mediocre RPG campaigns or none at all.

Possibly, but since that doesn't apply to my players, I fail to care about the distinction;)!

Yeah, it's very alien to me too.  Here there's such a vast and interconnected community of gamers, that no one is in a game because of feeling they have no other choice.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1037634Yeah, it's very alien to me too.  Here there's such a vast and interconnected community of gamers, that no one is in a game because of feeling they have no other choice.

How can you have no other choice if you're in a vast and interconnected gaming community?

Quote from: AsenRG;1037669How can you have no other choice if you're in a vast and interconnected gaming community?

Um, I think you misread. I was saying that no one is in a game from lack of choice. If you don't like your gaming group here, you go looking for another one.

Of course, not everyone can get in the game they really want to get into above all the others. I have a huge backlist of people who want to game with me.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1037868Um, I think you misread. I was saying that no one is in a game from lack of choice. If you don't like your gaming group here, you go looking for another one.

Of course, not everyone can get in the game they really want to get into above all the others. I have a huge backlist of people who want to game with me.

OK, I've misread you, indeed!
Granted, I just don't agree that nobody is in a game from lack of choice. But that's off-topic;).y

Quote from: AsenRG;1037972OK, I've misread you, indeed!
Granted, I just don't agree that nobody is in a game from lack of choice. But that's off-topic;).y

I was saying that no one in Uruguay is in a game from a lack of choice. In other places, where there's less of a network of gamers, it could certainly be different.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1038141I was saying that no one in Uruguay is in a game from a lack of choice. In other places, where there's less of a network of gamers, it could certainly be different.

About Uruguay, I don't know. But since you didn't specify, I assumed you're talking about "the modern world" or something:).