Quote from: RPG PunditYour having GUESSED the wrong answer that happened to be right based on bad information doesn't make you a genius.

Uh, what?  That echo you are hearing is caused by the hole you continuing to be digging for yourself.

Quote from: RPG PunditFor my part, if I don't get an answer (and possibly an apology), I will no longer be able to give WoTC my support.

Shit, man.  They fibbed on you and now they've hurt your feelings, so you're threatening to withdraw your blessing?  For reals?  I mean, I don't disagree that they're liars of the pants-on-fire variety but that doesn't change the quality of their products one bit.

Well, I for one, am relieved to find out that believing a lie makes you right- as opposed to a dupe.

Quote from: jrientsShit, man.  They fibbed on you and now they've hurt your feelings, so you're threatening to withdraw your blessing?  For reals?  I mean, I don't disagree that they're liars of the pants-on-fire variety but that doesn't change the quality of their products one bit.

Poor Pundit, first Dancey and now this. He's had a hard week.

While there are changes in play (such as incorporating "epic-level play," with 30 levels instead of 20), they are described as "evolutionary" rather than "revolutionary." Other changes include new power sources, changes in resource management, and new encounter design, and more clearly defined monster roles. Changes will speed play, make the game easier to learn, and make DM-ing easier. Concepts for 4th Edition gameplay were tested in the new Star Wars RPG, and the Book of 9 Swords.

Snipped from a post on TBP.

Lying to your customers doesn't build brand loyalty.  If I'd just spent lots of money on 3.x books based on what they told people in February (no 4th edition anytime soon kids!) then I'd be pretty annoyed at this.  It wouldn't make me want to turn around and give them more money for treating me like that.

Now, I haven't spent lots of money on 3.x... so that's not a personal issue for me. I'm interested in seeing how they handle this.  It's their ball to drop, and I guess we'll have to wait and see how they spin this later today.  This particular question *will* have to be answered... or they'll really be messing up.

It sounds like I'll like their new direction a whole lot. (New direction actually looks like, 20 degree course change, but...) Though, I might put a buying freeze on new product until 4th, then. If I'm going to buy, (and it looks like quality is coming) then I don't want to spend a bunch of money on something that isn't going to be as good as what I want to purchase later.

I can wait. I've got plenty of books for now.

Quote from: StuartLying to your customers doesn't build brand loyalty.  If I'd just spent lots of money on 3.x books based on what they told people in February (no 4th edition anytime soon kids!) then I'd be pretty annoyed at this.  It wouldn't make me want to turn around and give them more money for treating me like that.

Now, I haven't spent lots of money on 3.x... so that's not a personal issue for me. I'm interested in seeing how they handle this.  It's their ball to drop, and I guess we'll have to wait and see how they spin this later today.  This particular question *will* have to be answered... or they'll really be messing up.

They couldn't really say "Heh, wait for Gencon for an announcement." They'd go out of business as people stopped buying stuff. They should just had said that when the announcement comes, expect 6 months before the new edition hits the shelves. Gives nothing away, keeps poeple buying the current edition and doesn't mislead people.

As far as art goes, this article came with these:-





Are they new?

Relatively inoffensive. Pretty LotR really.

I think I'd have prefered anime...

:-)

Quote from: StuartLying to your customers doesn't build brand loyalty.  If I'd just spent lots of money on 3.x books based on what they told people in February (no 4th edition anytime soon kids!) then I'd be pretty annoyed at this.  It wouldn't make me want to turn around and give them more money for treating me like that.

Now, I haven't spent lots of money on 3.x... so that's not a personal issue for me. I'm interested in seeing how they handle this.  It's their ball to drop, and I guess we'll have to wait and see how they spin this later today.  This particular question *will* have to be answered... or they'll really be messing up.

I am in exactly this position.  I had the three core books and rode on those for a time because I wasn't playing alot - just getting refamiliar with gaming.

When they said 4e wasn't coming out for a bit, I figured I'd dig into 3.5 deeper, bought some books (starting with things for my main LG character) and build from there.  When I was invited to join a group at the FLGS (foiled by my recent hospital 4dventure), I splurged and got the PHBII and FRCS as they appear to be playing that campaign. I was willing to spend that money because I figured they wouldn't be releasing 4e for a while.

So they lied, and I payed. Now the question will be how much really changes. How valid will core books be for what period of time.  What will Living Greyhawk do - my assumption being that as part of the RPGA, they will force everyone to level up, as it were. So I might have to drop out of something I really enjoyed because they fucked this up so badly.

None of which has anything to do with the quality of the product - which nobody has seen (only the SAGA preview). That is a separate issue.

Quote from: StuartLying to your customers doesn't build brand loyalty.  If I'd just spent lots of money on 3.x books based on what they told people in February (no 4th edition anytime soon kids!) then I'd be pretty annoyed at this.  It wouldn't make me want to turn around and give them more money for treating me like that.

Likely, it'll probably go something like this- 'We realized we could bring it to market earlier than we originally anticipated, and we felt that demand was high. There will, of course, be complete set of conversion notes, so you can use all your 3.5 stuff...."
I doubt most people playing were aware of the release schedules anyway, and, for the most part, those that are angry wont stay mad long-

"Didja hear the rumor about 4.5?  It's being released 15 months after 4.0"

-The Evil DM, screwing around on my blog.

If they follow the old addage about Microsoft, the even number version will suck, anyway.

Never buy a .0 release.  Never buy an even number release.

Quote from: James J SkachIf they follow the old addage about Microsoft, the even number version will suck, anyway.

Never buy a .0 release.  Never buy an even number release.

Not worth upgrading until at least the first service pack?

If I owned a game store, I'd be weeping with joy about now.

Beyond this, I think a new edition of D&D is good for the hobby as a whole. Especially if it is hyped and pushed like 3.0 was. I think it is the single best tool for bringing noobs into the hobby and old timers who have fallen out of it back. I never played 3.x (not to my taste) but I bought the phb and dmg, and from there some other (non D&D) stuff, and slowly made my way back into the hobby after a decade out of it. I know at least a couple of other people who fit this profile, as well.

If they're following the Book of Nine Swords version of resource management, I'm happy. Going per-encounter instead of per-day makes it a lot easier to keep the action moving, and avoids "it's 8:15 am, but we're out of resources. Someone crack open the playing cards and let's get camp set up."