Quote from: James J Skachthey chose Living (Forgotten) Realms as the next living campaign

Wait, really?  That's actually pretty cool.

The only real concern I have at the moment is "magic increasing across the board." I'm hoping they means spells and the like are more powerful and/or accessible. Anything but the superabundance of trinkets that were necessary in 3E. Iron Heroes and True20 have both spoiled me with scarcity - nowadays I don't think have the stomach for a game where every character needs to be dripping with items in order to function beyond a certain level.

Quote from: DrewThe only real concern I have at the moment is "magic increasing across the board." I'm hoping they means spells and the like are more powerful and/or accessible. Anything but the superabundance of trinkets that were necessary in 3E. Iron Heroes and True20 have both spoiled me with scarcity - nowadays I don't think have the stomach for a game where every character needs to be dripping with items in order to function beyond a certain level.

Actually, one of the things I'd read that the designers were saying was that the "Christmas tree" phenomenon would no longer be so important. Given that Mike Mearls designed Iron Heroes and is lead designer on 4e, my guess is that magic isn't as essential to PC power as it was in 3e.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonActually, one of the things I'd read that the designers were saying was that the "Christmas tree" phenomenon would no longer be so important. Given that Mike Mearls designed Iron Heroes and is lead designer on 4e, my guess is that magic isn't as essential to PC power as it was in 3e.

Yeah, I read that too, although the "across the board" comment could be interpreted as contradictory.

I suppose we'll find out in the upcoming months. It would be ideal for me if magic items were no longer a necessity but a matter of preference. That way you could scale your campaign appropriately based on an artifact rating or somesuch.

I think the new edition is going to be a really great game of a certain kind.

Reading these previews, it seems like even more than 3e they're leaving 'low fantasy' behind for good. Pre-3e D&D was able to do low fantasy, all you had to do was limit magic items and you were pretty much there.

This game is going to be near-Exalted level even with no magic items, it sounds like.

It does seem to be getting further and further away from the actual original feeling of D&D, something that will only be good news to games that try to capture that feeling, like C&C and, dare I say it, FtA!

RPGPundit

I suspect the success of C&C and FtA! may be influencing the decision to move further away from the original feeling of D&D. If D&D remains where it is now - half looking back to old editions, half looking forward to something being completely different - then they're in the position of trying to please everybody while actually pleasing nobody. The grognards will dislike the elements which take the game away from old school D&D, while the "new guard" will find the elements still linked to old school D&D archaic and baffling. It looks very much like they've decided to abandon the grognards entirely and let them fend for themselves under the OGL - something which old school fans, as you point out, have proved themselves very capable of doing.

I don't mind too much - my 4th edition books will take pride of place next to RC D&D, 1st edition AD&D and FtA! on my RPG shelf.

Viral marketeering!

Quote from: Stuart...No support for the Mac.

:mad:

Quote from: Calithena... Reading these previews, it seems like even more than 3e they're leaving 'low fantasy' behind for good...

That would be rather depressing.  A lot of the proposed changes sound very cool, but the increase of magical powers across the board is a real turn off.

My excitement has definitely cooled ...

More info about 4e.

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From the WotC website:
"Here are some functional roles that monsters fall into:

Mastermind: These are monsters that are capable of being the "big bad" in an adventure—the guys behind the scenes pulling the strings of all the other monsters. They often have mental powers, spellcasting, and more complexity, but there's no reason they can't be absolute terrors in melee. They're usually smart and social. This is a rewarding category of monster to spend some complexity on, but beware! DMs will often use masterminds in conjunction with brutes and mooks, so there might be a lot on the DM's plate already.

Brute: These are the classic D&D monsters: scary, straightforward melee combatant. Despite our nickname for them, "brute," they aren't necessarily dumb or unsophisticated. They can be intelligent and cultured; if they rely on wading into melee and carving up PCs, then they're brutes. The design challenge here is to create a monster that's interesting (not just "another ogre") but is respectful of the DM's limited processing power.

Mook: These are low-level monsters that function well in groups—and their "groupability" is what separates them from the brutes. We want every mook to have a game-mechanic benefit for grouping up (see the minion section below). This can either be an existing mechanic (sneak attack is a good example of something that works better when you're grouped) or something new you make up.

Lurker: A pretty obvious category. These guys use camouflage, stealth, guile, or magical means to ambush the PCs. Making that "Aha! Gotcha!" moment as compelling as possible at the table is the key to making a good lurker.

Decathlete: These are the monsters that can do it all—strong melee attack, strong ranged attack, and often battlefield maneuverability that the PCs of that level can't easily match. Dragons are the classic example.

Artillery: These monsters have better ranged attacks than melee attacks—think beholder. At higher levels, they often exert some sort of terrain control or use other means to keep PCs at a distance. At low levels, they're just archers or what have you.

Special: What's a category system without a catch-all? For our purposes, specials are monsters that have a primary purpose other than "the next room in the dungeon." New familiars, steeds, helpful monsters, and monsters playable as PC races all fall into this category."

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20070727a

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I'm fine with defined roles along these lines, but i would do it differently than this sort of implies. This implies that each monster type/species/whatever will fill one or more of these roles. I would prefer the monsters to be designed and then a template for each of these types that can be applied to any monster to get the roles mentioned above. Whole species filling the same role just seems kinda silly, although i'm sure that PC classes can be tacked onto them like in 3e.

I want 20 Goblin Mooks, 5 Goblin Lurkers, 2 Goblin Artillery and a Goblin Mastermind. I don't want 28 Goblin Mooks, a couple of whom happen to have a class level or two.

7 templates that can be applied to any monster in the book, give them varying powers depending on the base creature's HD and bingo! This template could be as simple as:

Lurker:
Hit die: d6
Special Abilities - HD 1 Sneak Attack +1d6, Hide +5
                        HD 2-3 S.Attack +2d6 or Invisibility 1/encounter
                        HD 4-6 S.Attack +3d6 or blah, blah, blah
Stats: Dex +2

Well, a bit more than that, but you get what i mean. Monster types by necessity, not by species.

Um, that article's talking about Monster Manual V, a 3.5 product.

Quote from: WarthurUm, that article's talking about Monster Manual V, a 3.5 product.

Ha! That's what you get for blindly believing something posted to ENworld!

Quote from: One Horse TownHa! That's what you get for blindly believing something posted to ENworld!

I'll bet it demonstrates their thinking for 4e though.

Quote from: SettembriniViral marketeering!

Hey, its my website, I'm allowed.  

RPGPundit

(pss, buy FtA!)

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=349521&page=13

I think I'm out if this is going to be the tenor of 4e conversations.