I am Wizards' Bitch [4e discussion]

John Morrow · August 18, 2007, 10:59:59 AM

Quote from: DrewNot things like Tokens and what not, but the idea of islands of civilization surrounded by a sea of lawlessness and savagery will be big in the "assumed" setting. "Points of light in a dark world," as JohnC said. There will be no great and powerful kingdoms of goodness and justice to bail civilization out. The average Joe doesn't stray far from the path, venture out onto the moors, are walk through the fog - there are Bad Things out there.

This, more than anything else, makes me interested in the game, though it will be interesting to see how they square this with 30th Level characters (Why don't a handful of good ones go out there and clean up the moors?).

Drew · August 18, 2007, 11:44:19 AM

Quote from: John MorrowThis, more than anything else, makes me interested in the game, though it will be interesting to see how they square this with 30th Level characters (Why don't a handful of good ones go out there and clean up the moors?).

It's the eternal question posed by D&D's level scaling. Maybe they're all busy keeping one another in check, or maybe they're off fighting the extra planar threats that want to eat the entire world.

I rarely include ultra-high level npc's in my campaigns, so it's not an issue. I do like the Iron Heroes implied setting though-- tiny beacons of civilisation built on the bones of fallen empires is exactly the sort of thing that gets my creative juices flowing. That's why I'm running with Wilderlands right now, S&S flavoured settings are too attractive for me to ever truly give up.

RPGPundit · August 18, 2007, 12:04:30 PM

Who wants to bet on how long it will be until they come out with rules for 31st+ level play (the "Really Epic Levels"!)?

RPGPundit

Settembrini · August 18, 2007, 12:25:28 PM

I don´t understand why it is that they didnt go to the canonical 36 levels. Thirty, that´s...six short.

mythusmage · August 18, 2007, 12:55:31 PM

2 millionth level play, how to create an NPC in less than a year.

Pierce Inverarity · August 18, 2007, 12:57:52 PM

QuoteMulticlassing is going to be significantly changed or possibly even removed. The example WotC gave was, if you want to be a Fighter who dabbles in arcane magic, you'll be able to do that without multiclassing as we know it. But while the 4e "Fighter/Wizard" won't have as many Fighter or Wizard tricks, he'll be as effective with his suite of abilities as a pure Fighter or pure Wizard would be with theirs.

Archetype reinforcement??? That would get rid of my biggest hate-on for 3.x.

I believe it when I see it.

Also, the overall project leader is Rob Heinsoo. Not sure what this tells us, except that Robin Laws says it's a good thing because RH (who was involved in Chainmail IIRC) apparently has the mechanics stuff down pat.

Drew · August 18, 2007, 01:01:36 PM

Quote from: mythusmage2 millionth level play, how to create an NPC in less than a year.

Heh. On a slightly more serious note the E-tools will allow you to do just that. You feed in the stats, and it crunches all the modifiers and bonuses. All you need to do is select what feats, talents and powers apply, and I've heard rumor of a template selection menu that will remove the grind of that, should you wish. Thus a completely statted 30th level evil wizard can be whipped up in minutes.

Not sure if it goes up to 2 million, though.

RPGPundit · August 18, 2007, 01:10:30 PM

Quote from: Pierce InverarityArchetype reinforcement??? That would get rid of my biggest hate-on for 3.x.

I believe it when I see it.

Me too, but if it was true it'd be the greatest improvement ever. Get rid of fucking multiclassing, and everything else that allows for minmaxing at the cost of archetypes.

Note that, again, if its true, its yet another similarity to Forward... to Adventure!, where multiclassing is not allowed.

RPGPundit

Settembrini · August 18, 2007, 01:15:23 PM

Viral marketeer.

Pierce Inverarity · August 18, 2007, 01:23:10 PM

Did I mention, and I'm honestly not sure if I'm actually joking here, that I kinda like the FtA cover image BETTER than the profoundly lame 4E PHB, MM and DMG?

I know they're by Wayne Reynolds. I don't care. They look like 2E garbage.

I would have commissioned Michael Komarck. A gamble, but an interesting one.

Settembrini · August 18, 2007, 01:28:31 PM

They have been way more audacious with 3rd edition. I think that was refreshing and innovative.
Now they look like a Music-Magazine Cover.

Drew · August 18, 2007, 01:33:09 PM

Quote from: Pierce InverarityDid I mention, and I'm honestly not sure if I'm actually joking here, that I kinda like the FtA cover image BETTER than the profoundly lame 4E PHB, MM and DMG?

I really like the cover art. Less dungeonpunk without sacrificing the epic quotient.

The MM cover neatly corresponds with the new Orcus mini (or should that be maxi? The thing looks fucking HUGE!) which is cool, but I'm a sucker for that kind of thing.

Pierce Inverarity · August 18, 2007, 01:37:37 PM

I liked that faux-tome design too. It didn't force a vision of the game on you, as a cover image always will, which in the case of a bad one is absolutely fatal. See HeroQuest.

If there absolutely has to be a new look, I would have commissioned the Cadwallon artists. But I know that makes me a minority of 1.

Settembrini · August 18, 2007, 01:40:04 PM

Do you know the german version for the hero quest and glorantha books?

Brantai · August 18, 2007, 01:40:46 PM

I'm fine with archetype reinforcement as long as they offer more fucking archetypes.