Quote from: danzig138You guys aren't going to disappoint me, are you?

For what it's worth, I'm looking forward to 4e.

Hasbro told people there would be no new edition coming soon so that they'd continue buying the current edition of books. Whether they changed their mind or not doesn't change the fact that surprising everyone with a 4th edition announcement makes them somewhat dishonest with their consumers.  The RPGPundit might be wrong about other things, but calling out a corporation for misleading consumers isn't one of them.

This doesn't mean you can't buy an enjoy their products -- but unless you're on the payroll you shouldn't be doing the job of their PR office in trying to apologize for or justify this.  That's crazy.  

Someone said earlier what they should have said back in February:  "We'll make sure that any new edition gets announced X months before it ships."

Quote from: Wizard Entertainment ArticleAs always, the Player's Handbook, Monster Manual and Dungeon Master's Guide will be the core of the new edition, and you'll see them in May, June and July of 2008 respectively, just in time for everyone to get new campaigns up and running for next year's Gen Con. And yes, Wizards does recommend you begin new campaigns with Fourth Edition. "It's not going to be as huge a jump," as from Second Edition to Third Edition, said Slavicsek, "but there's enough changing in the core system of how we are doing classes and races and characters that we're not even gonna attempt it—we're just telling you it's better to start over." Conversion went over like a lead balloon with Third Edition anyway.

So... what happens to Living Greyhawk?  Everyone starting at 1st level again with 4th edition?

Quote from: SettembriniThe WotC site?
"Service unavailable?" The Fuck?

Does anybody get a response?

Everyone: at least right now, you can browse the site using this mirror:

http://www.wizards.com.nyud.net:8080/default.asp?x=dnd/welcome

I don't seem to be having much trouble with

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/welcome

at the moment.

Quote from: RPGPunditNo, I admit I was wrong. I was wrong in thinking that Wizards wouldn't be so stupid as to be so dishonest toward its fans.

Those people who are claiming that they somehow knew all along what Wizards really meant by their statement at the D&D Experience? They're the ones that can't admit they were wrong.

RPGPundit

Pundit, I'm often on your side on things, but dude, you were dead-wrong on this issue. Corporations lie. It happens all the time. Getting into a semantic argument with people on what they or WoTC did or didn't precisely say is pointless. People sensed the arrival of 4e, and you didn't. Just let it go, and move on. You'll feel better if you do. :keke:

This is a done deal. The real question is: are you on board for the new edition or what?

Because the truth of the matter is, the majority will forgive or forget about Hasbro's and WoTC's lies. Or should I say "mistruths"?

A few years ago, I'd be ripshit about this lack of ethical behavior, but now I'm more philosophical about it. I'm like, do they make stuff I like? If the answer is "yes", then I become a valued customer. If they don't, then I spend my gaming dollars on something else.

Now granted, I can't behind that "Digital Initiative". A more expensive online version of Dungeon and Dragon? No paper magazine? Uh, no thanks, I'll pass. Plus, the Gleemax site makes me cringe. It is visually ugly , so therefore, I refuse to invest my time at that site. :raise: I'll still get the 4e core books though.

Quote from: SigmundI don't seem to be having much trouble with

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/welcome

at the moment.

 Disregard, back to overload status

Not a very graceful way to launch the "digital initiative"... should have planned better to keep their web servers online.

EDIT: Wow. ENWorld is having trouble too.

More details on the actual game:

Quote from: RacesRaces will grant abilities at levels other than first - most of the abilities will be gained in the first 10 levels, but there will be some gained at higher levels.

"In the final version of 4th Edition, most of your racial traits come into play right out of the gate at 1st level—dwarven resilience, elven evasion, a half-elf's inspiring presence, and so on. As you go up levels, you can take racial feats to make those abilities even more exciting and gain new capabilities tied to your race. You can also take race-specific powers built into your class, which accomplish a lot of what racial substitution levels used to do: a dwarf fighter with the friend of earth power can do something that other 10th-level fighters just can't do."

Wizards has really impressed me with one decision regarding 4e:

There is going to be a new SRD for 4e that falls under the OGL.

And yeah, I'm biased.

Still, I'm glad Wizards realizes we're good for them.

Quote from: StuartMore details on the actual game:

I like that.  I did feel in the current version that the races were insufficiently differentiated.

More info

Quote from: ClassesThe fighter is the only current 4th Edition class with capabilities that depend on the weapon they have chosen to train the most with. Even at 1st level, a fighter who uses an axe has a different power selection than a fighter who relies on a flail or a rapier or a pick. In the long run, fighters can diversify and master powers related to a few different weapons, but most will opt to focus on the weapon that suits their personal style, helps their interactions with the rest of the PCs in the group, and carries all the magical oomph they’ve managed to acquire.

All good and well. But what I can't see is how this helps to "simplify prep time" (one stated 4E goal) as opposed to extending it even further? More customization = more prep for the GM, no?

Quote from: Pierce InverarityAll good and well. But what I can't see is how this helps to "simplify prep time" (one stated 4E goal) as opposed to extending it even further? More customization = more prep for the GM, no?

That assumes that every last damn NPC needs a write up.  The Monster Manual is there for a reason.  The NPC tables are there for a reason.  Fucking use them.  It's not the game's fault that you decided to do more work than intended.

This is what pisses me off.  Because all the whining about "complexity" is mostly bogus misrepresentation by people who don't understand how the game is supposed to work.

And that's why shit like SAGA and 4e make me nervous, because it sounds an awful lot like they've been listening too much to people who're deliberately misrepresenting the game as it is played and as it is written.

Yeah - they will have systems for NPCs and monsters that are different from PC ones - so only the PCs will have the added complexity.