Quote from: beeberblame hasbro, not WotC, then?  if blame one must, that is.  sounds right.

Actually I'd say no one is to blame in a situation like that.

When management changes, a new direction is what SHOULD happen.

Otherwise, why make a change?

Quote from: James McMurrayOk, it's not what he said, but it sure is what it sounded like. :rolleyes:

Face it Pundy, corporate spokepersons speak in vague terms for this exact sort of situation. You heard what they said, ran it through your own filters, and latched onto what you thought it should mean. Now you're bitching and moaning because you hate to be wrong. So obviously you weren't really wrong, you were betrayed and lied to. :rolleyes:

The simple point of the matter is that it's impossible to connect what has been quoted here to what they've done and pull a lie out of it.

Quote from: RPGObjects_chuckAhhh. You are correct about that.

In fact I took that announcement to mean I was likely wrong about my 2008 prediction.

Hey Jimbo...apparently Pundit is not the only one who thought it meant that.  I know I thought the same.  Chuck, here, obviously felt the same - so strongly that he thought he was wrong about his predictions.  In fact, IIRC, most people, both here and elsewhere, took the statement exactly as Pundit did.

So take your I-think-I'm-clever-by-changing-quote-text humor someplace where it's more appropriate. He was wrong because he was lied to - sure it was a lot of nice marketing mumbo-jumbo that could be taken now, in hindsight, as a dodge.  But back then? And being lied to is a legitimate reason for being upset.

Quote from: James J SkachHey Jimbo...apparently Pundit is not the only one who thought it meant that.  I know I thought the same.  Chuck, here, obviously felt the same - so strongly that he thought he was wrong about his predictions.  In fact, IIRC, most people, both here and elsewhere, took the statement exactly as Pundit did.

So take your I-think-I'm-clever-by-changing-quote-text humor someplace where it's more appropriate. He was wrong because he was lied to - sure it was a lot of nice marketing mumbo-jumbo that could be taken now, in hindsight, as a dodge.  But back then? And being lied to is a legitimate reason for being upset.

But again, it is possible that statement was 100% at the time it was made.

Management has changed extensively since then.

I'm not saying they didn't lie. Just that there could have been a change in direction since the statement.

Quote from: RPGObjects_chuckBut again, it is possible that statement was 100% at the time it was made.

Management has changed extensively since then.

I'm not saying they didn't lie. Just that there could have been a change in direction since the statement.

Oh no - don't think I'm saying you are in the "they are lying" camp.  I'm simply stating that it's not out of the realm for people to have claimed to interpret their previous statements as no 4e until probably 2009.

Jimmy is claiming Pundit is being a whiny baby because he was somehow foolish to believe that, or interpret thos previous statements that way.  If that's the case, he's calling you, me, and a lot of other people whiny babies.

Look, I like your take on it.  New management comes in and say "Why the fuck are we waiting?" or "We need the revenue now or heads will roll!" or a thousand other possibilities. I think they saw the success of SAGA and thought, as you alluded, "why are we leaving this money on the table?"

None of that changes the common interpretation of those statements from February that seemed to strongly indicate that 4e was a long way off (like, 2009).

Quote from: James J SkachLook, I like your take on it.  New management comes in and say "Why the fuck are we waiting?" or "We need the revenue now or heads will roll!" or a thousand other possibilities. I think they saw the success of SAGA and thought, as you alluded, "why are we leaving this money on the table?"

Yep.

Not to mention:

3.5 came out 5 years after 3.0 completely and utterly killed it. You couldn't sell 3.0 books for firewood after 3.5 came out.

How many editions of Star Wars have there been? 3?

In like a 6-7 year span?

And they sold like crazy.

If you are looking for someone to blame for this decision, the enemy is us.

Maybe not you, but plenty of folks bought enough stuff to convince them we would roll with a new edition much more quickly than we have in the past.

But of course, after the WoD edition churns of late, everyone with an eye on the market already knew that.

Quote from: James McMurrayOk, it's not what he said, but it sure is what it sounded like. :rolleyes:

Face it Pundy, corporate spokepersons speak in vague terms for this exact sort of situation. You heard what they said, ran it through your own filters, and latched onto what you thought it should mean. Now you're bitching and moaning because you hate to be wrong. So obviously you weren't really wrong, you were betrayed and lied to. :rolleyes:

The simple point of the matter is that it's impossible to connect what has been quoted here to what they've done and pull a lie out of it.

No, I admit I was wrong. I was wrong in thinking that Wizards wouldn't be so stupid as to be so dishonest toward its fans.

Those people who are claiming that they somehow knew all along what Wizards really meant by their statement at the D&D Experience? They're the ones that can't admit they were wrong.

RPGPundit

I think it's a bit rich, considering that sixteen years passed between the publication of GURPS 3rd and GURPS 4th, to accuse SJGames of pulling an "edition churn" with GURPS.

Quote from: WarthurI think it's a bit rich, considering that sixteen years passed between the publication of GURPS 3rd and GURPS 4th, to accuse SJGames of pulling an "edition churn" with GURPS.

Yeah you're correct there. And I played GURPs 3e lol. Anyway, I edited my statement to remove my mistake.

The WotC site?
"Service unavailable?" The Fuck?

Does anybody get a response?

No response here in middle America.

zip in NJ

Quote from: James J SkachJimmy is claiming Pundit is being a whiny baby because he was somehow foolish to believe that, or interpret thos previous statements that way.  If that's the case, he's calling you, me, and a lot of other people whiny babies.

Not at all. I'm not saying he's a whiny bitch because he was wrong, I'm saying he's a whiny bitch because he's acting like a whiny bitch. You and others who also feel lied to are not acting like whiny bitches, so I'm not calling you on it.

Quote from: RPGPunditNo, I admit I was wrong. I was wrong in thinking that Wizards wouldn't be so stupid as to be so dishonest toward its fans.

Your assumption is that they were dishonest. Better posters than I have given plenty of explanations for how they might not have been.

QuoteThose people who are claiming that they somehow knew all along what Wizards really meant by their statement at the D&D Experience? They're the ones that can't admit they were wrong.

Who are these people? I see people saying "those statements can be construed in different ways" but I've yet to see anyone say "I knew all along they were being vague because they were coming out in 2008." Perhaps I missed some posts somewhere? Or did you imagine them?

Quote from: SettembriniThe WotC site?
"Service unavailable?" The Fuck?

Does anybody get a response?

I'm sure the site's overwhelmed. Too many people hitting refresh every 30 seconds.

Wizards changed their mind. People do that.

Get off the WOTC server, you fucking nerds, I want to see teh webiste!!!!