Quote from: mhensleyAh, more of your rapier wit.

Jesus. Pundit has gone off the rails.

I guess this spoiled the good mood he was building up thinking about being able to bombast "another GenCon has come and gone and everyone who predicted 4e would EVER COME has once again been proven to be DUMBASSES".

But now his feelings are hurt and he's lashing out.

Awwwww.

Quote from: RPGObjects_chuckJesus. Pundit has gone off the rails.

I guess this spoiled the good mood he was building up thinking about being able to bombast "another GenCon has come and gone and everyone who predicted 4e would EVER COME has once again been proven to be DUMBASSES".

But now his feelings are hurt and he's lashing out.

Awwwww.

yeah, pretty much.

funny thing is he's mad that they lied, yet, they did not. They may have been vague, but they didn't lie.

Back in february, when the announcement was made, there was not ONE person who interpreted it as meaning that they were going to do anything other than 3e till the end of 2008.  It shut up all the critics, and obviously all the fans felt vindicated.

NOT ONE OF YOU stood up then and said "their statement can be interpreted to mean 4e is coming out in 2008".  NOT ONE OF YOU.  Some of you said "they're lying", which is a very different thing, and it appears that those of you who said it then were right, I must concede, they were being dishonest.

But those of you who are now spin doctoring and trying to claim that the statement was wide open to interpretation, where the fuck were you back in February to say that? You bitches with 20-20 hindsight sure are a brilliant fucking lot, for sure.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditBack in february, when the announcement was made, there was not ONE person who interpreted it as meaning that they were going to do anything other than 3e till the end of 2008.  It shut up all the critics, and obviously all the fans felt vindicated.

NOT ONE OF YOU stood up then and said "their statement can be interpreted to mean 4e is coming out in 2008".  NOT ONE OF YOU.  Some of you said "they're lying", which is a very different thing, and it appears that those of you who said it then were right, I must concede, they were being dishonest.

But those of you who are now spin doctoring and trying to claim that the statement was wide open to interpretation, where the fuck were you back in February to say that? You bitches with 20-20 hindsight sure are a brilliant fucking lot, for sure.

RPGPundit

I disagree.

I've been predicting 2008 for a couple of years now.

My only question was whether 3.5 reset the armageddon clock or not

It seems to me as though Wizards may have had a rethink and hastened the release. Now it could be that they're nothing more than a bunch of money-grabbing bastards who like nothing more than pointing and laughing at the dolts who swallow their corporate spiel. On the other hand it could be due to any one of a dozen other reasons-- their place in the market, their relationship with Hasbro or the perceived necessity of kickstarting an online gaming community more swiftly.

Once again, with so little to go on all we can do is speculate, and I really can't envision any definitive answers being offered by their marketing people. The bald fact of the matter is that 4E is here. It may be early. It may be unanticpated. It may cast some Wizards employees in a terrible light. It may make some of the more strident industry commentators look like frothing goons. What it won't do is give anyone clairvoyance enough to understand the workings of WotC's top-level decision makers.

Pundy commands more respect than the corporate bitch brigade.

Quote from: Drew. . .their relationship with Hasbro . . . .

that's where my money is.  corporate overlords and their business plans throwing directives to the guys lower on the ladder.

Quote from: RPGPunditBack in february, when the announcement was made, there was not ONE person who interpreted it as meaning that they were going to do anything other than 3e till the end of 2008.  It shut up all the critics, and obviously all the fans felt vindicated.

NOT ONE OF YOU stood up then and said "their statement can be interpreted to mean 4e is coming out in 2008".  NOT ONE OF YOU.  Some of you said "they're lying", which is a very different thing, and it appears that those of you who said it then were right, I must concede, they were being dishonest.

But those of you who are now spin doctoring and trying to claim that the statement was wide open to interpretation, where the fuck were you back in February to say that? You bitches with 20-20 hindsight sure are a brilliant fucking lot, for sure.

RPGPundit

Well, know one asked the question. But just looking at exaclty what the statement said you could not read that it would be 2007,2008, or 2009 that 4e would be released. WotC never said that they will be publishing 3ed through 2008, period. I don't know, " good stuff though 2008" doesn't read 3ed to me.:deflated:  

I can see where people might have taken that as they are publishing 3ed through 2008, but that's not what they said. Simple as that, that's not spin it's looking at exactly what was said.

Honestly, they could have worded it that way knowing people might take it as 3ed though 2008 because they really weren't sure when they planed to publish 4ed for sure. Most likely because they wanted to only have a 6 month sales slump instead of nearly a year.

Quote from: RPGObjects_chuckI disagree.

I've been predicting 2008 for a couple of years now.

My only question was whether 3.5 reset the armageddon clock or not

That wasn't my statement. Obviously many of you said 2008, for your own varied reasons (usually bad ones).

The point is that NO ONE took what they said in February, that particular statement in the D&D experience, and said "its a spin, they're playing word games, and this means they'll bring D&D out in 2008".

Some of you might have said "They're lying" about that statement, but that's very different from saying "they're playing word games".  Those of you who are basically re-interpreting that statement to now claim they weren't technically being dishonest are basically all talking out of your collective asses after the fact.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditBack in february, when the announcement was made, there was not ONE person who interpreted it as meaning that they were going to do anything other than 3e till the end of 2008.  It shut up all the critics, and obviously all the fans felt vindicated. . . .

Waaaaaah!!! Why didn't my mommy love me?!?!? Is it because I'm so often wrong?!??!?!?

RPGPundit

Ok, it's not what he said, but it sure is what it sounded like. :rolleyes:

Face it Pundy, corporate spokepersons speak in vague terms for this exact sort of situation. You heard what they said, ran it through your own filters, and latched onto what you thought it should mean. Now you're bitching and moaning because you hate to be wrong. So obviously you weren't really wrong, you were betrayed and lied to. :rolleyes:

The simple point of the matter is that it's impossible to connect what has been quoted here to what they've done and pull a lie out of it.

Quote from: RPGPunditThat wasn't my statement. Obviously many of you said 2008, for your own varied reasons (usually bad ones).

The point is that NO ONE took what they said in February, that particular statement in the D&D experience, and said "its a spin, they're playing word games, and this means they'll bring D&D out in 2008".

Ahhh. You are correct about that.

In fact I took that announcement to mean I was likely wrong about my 2008 prediction.

I'm in the "they were dishonest in their dealings with the public" camp. Any statements I've seen by WotC spokespeople (mostly over at ENWorld, not counting the stuff in the last week or two) gave me the impression that they were saying "No D&D 4th announcements at Gencon". Especially after all the "Major D&D announcements will be made at Winter Fantasy" crap.

My first reaction to the news was - "Wow, I can't believe they really lied to us this blatantly all this time". My second reaction was - "4E is going to rock!"

I'm sure if I went back and looked at every single WotC post on various message boards the actual statement made could be interpreted to allow a 4th edition announcement at GenCon, but as a reasonably intelligent person with a decent grasp on the English language, that's not what was being implied up until now.

Quote from: GoOrangeI'm in the "they were dishonest in their dealings with the public" camp.

Management of the D&D brand has changed between that statement and this announcement.

It's quite possible that the inability to pull the trigger on the new decision was the REASON for the change in management.

It's also possible that when the new brand manager came in, he took stock of everything from top to bottom, and made a decision that now was the time.

There's plenty of possibilities other than "WOTC are SOB's who lied to us".

When managers change, a new direction is usually the desired result.

Quote from: RPGObjects_chuckManagement of the D&D brand has changed between that statement and this announcement.

It's quite possible that the inability to pull the trigger on the new decision was the REASON for the change in management.

It's also possible that when the new brand manager came in, he took stock of everything from top to bottom, and made a decision that now was the time.

There's plenty of possibilities other than "WOTC are SOB's who lied to us".

When managers change, a new direction is usually the desired result.

blame hasbro, not WotC, then?  if blame one must, that is.  sounds right.