Greetings!

Well, certainly for the game groups that I play with. *Laughing* In reading about all of these fragile, mentally ill gamers shrieking about "Safety Tools" and moving beyond "Old Gamer Stereotypes" and hostile imagery and gameplay--like "Toxic Masculine" characters and sexy women, my groups respond very positively and enthusiastically to "Toxic Masculine Beasts" and Voluptuous Strumpets!

The men in the groups customarily reflect respect towards strong, muscular, arrogant bad-asses that demonstrate competence and skill. They routinely look sideways at weak, effeminate pussies crying about all of their special problems. Such pathetic male characters do not tend to gain much traction for respect, much less gaining any friends. Likewise, the women players don't get excited about metrosexual feminist allies--they squeal over making time with the rugged beasts!

In a similar manner, the men gamers all appreciate voluptuous, sexy strumpets, not merely as romantic interests--but the more feminine the woman character is, the MORE the male characters respond with genuine respect and friendship. The women characters, well, interestingly, they too, respond much better and with more enthusiasm towards sexy, hot women than some hideous, pear-shaped refrigerator with rainbow blue hair.

Interestingly, I have also observed that with various NPC's being strongly traditional types--if exaggerated at times--the more traditional characterizations they reflect, the more margins are allowed socially for them to attempt to go beyond the character, and stretch, to do something a bit different. This kind of respect and social freedom is not accorded to the freak that seeks to stomp from the gate about how super-special and awesome they are.

And with the women--even while they are not always as up-front and abrasive towards such freak characters as the men are--the women players are still "Low-Key" hostile towards them. It makes me laugh watching the social dynamics play out at the table.

Then again, I don't have any players at my table that are pear-shaped refrigerators with rainbow blue hair and truckloads of bad attitudes about everything. I suspect that if anyone like that--like you see in the Twitter groups, or some of these interweb flies that hover about claiming to be gamers actually somehow showed up at the table, I don't think that they would receive a very warm reception. Just a suspicion on my part. *Laughing*

I say all that in response to some of these chat videos by some gamer freaks of these sorts--their whole *schtick* would not pan out well. Players, or *characters* doing and acting like they purport to do so--and promote all the time--that whole thing would get them nowhere with my groups, and gain zero respect or approval--from either the men or the women players.

I have also watched some of the Woke freaks GM on video shows, and most every one of them is terrible as GM's, as well as dreadfully boring. They prattle on and on--it is more of a wanna-be novelist monologuing to their silent group of players, suffering in boredom or pushing a fake, candy-enthusiasm for hanging out at the Goo-Goo Fantasy Starbucks Coffeeshop.

It also makes me wonder who, and how these people get into their game groups, because most of them are not actually playing *An RPG*. They are drifting in some low-grade drama-theater and novelist's playtime.

But not actually gaming.

Which I think is kinda sad, really. They are missing out not learning to actually *play and RPG*--and they are missing out on experiencing a genuine RPG experience.

Just some thoughts, my friends.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

  Does that mean your welcome may be assumed to be your consent?

PS: My next question is about your pronouns. 
PPS: There's no other questions. I'll just then assume we'll roll 3d6 strai- *cough* 'gayly forward' down the stat line. 

Shark--

This is my vision of your gaming table.  It's in a wood paneled room 1970s-style decor, likely a basement, with a full wet bar and taxidermy wildlife and military trophies on the walls.  You sit at the head of the table in a leather chair, chewing a cigar like J. Jonah Jameson with a glass of whiskey at your right hand.  Around the table are grizzled, unshaven vets and MILFs in leather making yipping noises.

How close am I?

The more brazen strumpets and wanton harlots the better, I always say.

Shark your table sounds like a blast!

And damn, spot on, in a game store I once saw a table run by a prattling, fragile GM and he/them/hers just wouldn't shut up. It was a solid 15 minutes of stream of consciousness boxed text. The look on one player's face reminded me of a hostage crisis!

Meanwhile my GM was like "So there's a sarcophagus here and some vines hanging down over it. It smells like rot and metal. What do you do?"

Keep it real and maybe some of the good ones will drift over to the fun side.

Quote from: SHARK on September 14, 2023, 06:07:07 AM
snip

Interestingly, I have also observed that with various NPC's being strongly traditional types--if exaggerated at times--the more traditional characterizations they reflect, the more margins are allowed socially for them to attempt to go beyond the character, and stretch, to do something a bit different. This kind of respect and social freedom is not accorded to the freak that seeks to stomp from the gate about how super-special and awesome they are.

And with the women--even while they are not always as up-front and abrasive towards such freak characters as the men are--the women players are still "Low-Key" hostile towards them. It makes me laugh watching the social dynamics play out at the table.

Then again, I don't have any players at my table that are pear-shaped refrigerators with rainbow blue hair and truckloads of bad attitudes about everything. I suspect that if anyone like that--like you see in the Twitter groups, or some of these interweb flies that hover about claiming to be gamers actually somehow showed up at the table, I don't think that they would receive a very warm reception. Just a suspicion on my part. *Laughing*

snip some more

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Good stuff SHARK. Sadly, and this is just my opinion, the blue-haired fridge harpies are the norm....and is what the younger/newer gamers expect in groups with safety tools abounding. The newish/younger gamers have been so plugged into social media, that they've fallen in line, when they agree or not. And you do have the occasional older gamer (who as Gad Saad calls the sneaky f0ckers) toe the line to be trolls and to "get" with the females....who despise them anyway....cause they're men.

Quote from: Persimmon on September 14, 2023, 08:50:16 AM
Shark--

This is my vision of your gaming table.  It's in a wood paneled room 1970s-style decor, likely a basement, with a full wet bar and taxidermy wildlife and military trophies on the walls.  You sit at the head of the table in a leather chair, chewing a cigar like J. Jonah Jameson with a glass of whiskey at your right hand.  Around the table are grizzled, unshaven vets and MILFs in leather making yipping noises.

How close am I?

You described my table perfectly.

We don't allow women at the table unless they are serving sandwiches, pizza or beer.

Quote from: Persimmon on September 14, 2023, 08:50:16 AM
Shark--

This is my vision of your gaming table.  It's in a wood paneled room 1970s-style decor, likely a basement, with a full wet bar and taxidermy wildlife and military trophies on the walls.  You sit at the head of the table in a leather chair, chewing a cigar like J. Jonah Jameson with a glass of whiskey at your right hand.  Around the table are grizzled, unshaven vets and MILFs in leather making yipping noises.

How close am I?

Greetings!

*HOWLING*! Hey there, Persimmon! Well, pretty spot-on, I'd say. I don't have a basement--but a large garage equipped with heating and AC, and comfortable chairs around a large table.

And yes, unlike the other chairs, *my* chair is this big, sweet black leather chair, high-back, that my friends often quip to me that the black chair is "SHARK's Throne." I recline in it expansively, chewing on my fine cigar, as I roar with laughter at the group's misadventures! And yes, I suppose I am rather like J. Jonah Jameson! *Laughing* I have various military trophies and memorabilia placed about, and a giant scarlet Marine Corps flag! You even remembered the stuffed animal heads! I have a taxidermied DEER HEAD, cool antlers and everything. I should add more animal heads! I have many bookcases spaced about, all heavy wooden things, with fine finish, stacked with gaming books on several--though most of them are brimming with books on History, Philosophy, Theology, Politics, all the good stuff. And books on animals, dinosaurs, and guns. Then, there is a large workbench along one wall, cabinets and everything, featuring reloading equipment, scales, and lots of ammunition and numerous weapons, like my AR-15, and various other weaponry. I keep a Marine K-Bar on a side table near the SHARK Throne, and a Glock .45 kept in its holster. Upstairs, I have a cigar humidor, and I always bring a handful of cigars to the table to share with anyone else in the mood.

"The Smoking Lamp is Lit!"

Oh, and yes, there is a liquor cabinet, fully stocked with rum, whiskey, and tequila. I also have a refrigerator full of ice-cold drinks for the crew. The kitchen inside is always stocked with French Vanilla Creamer, and several varieties of fine coffee, too! As the DM and Host, I always like to ensure my friends have everything good to eat and drink and be happy while we game together!

The group members--yes, the men likewise are grizzled veterans, and the MILF women are--and no, as women in their 30's, 40's, and 50's, none of them are "super-models"--and yet, they are all Class A dolls because they respect what is important--they respect men and women, appropriately, they respect God, Veterans, and America. It is who they are inside as people that makes them really special, and beautiful people. And, of course, they respect ME--and the game. Very important elements in my book. Besides being friends with them all, one attribute concerning them is they all are *gamers*--with a strong respect for the game rules, the game system, and me, as the DM. It is a very old-school dynamic, but I certainly appreciate it very much. That is also why I feed them well, whether we are having pizza, or Greek food, or steaks from the grill. The grill and smoker are outside the garage, on the covered patio.

And yes--the women *do* often make Yipping Noises! *Laughing* You know how the women can be. They like shrieking and all that.

So, I'd say you are pretty accurate, my friend!

I don't think that the atmosphere would be to the Woke gamer's liking. Too many *triggering* elements, and too much "Toxic Masculinity." They would no doubt believe that the women are full of Patriarchy Brainwashing or some BS like that.

And here we are, all these years, thinking we are normal, strong, reasonably healthy, God-Fearing Americans that were raised right and proper.

Good stuff, Persimmon! I love it! Your imagery made me howl laughing!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: rytrasmi on September 14, 2023, 10:27:49 AM
Shark your table sounds like a blast!

And damn, spot on, in a game store I once saw a table run by a prattling, fragile GM and he/them/hers just wouldn't shut up. It was a solid 15 minutes of stream of consciousness boxed text. The look on one player's face reminded me of a hostage crisis!

Meanwhile my GM was like "So there's a sarcophagus here and some vines hanging down over it. It smells like rot and metal. What do you do?"

Keep it real and maybe some of the good ones will drift over to the fun side.

Greetings!

Thank you, Ryatrasmi! You would be welcome to join my table anytime! You would no doubt enjoy everything splendidly!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on September 14, 2023, 01:42:11 PM

Quote from: SHARK on September 14, 2023, 06:07:07 AM
snip

Interestingly, I have also observed that with various NPC's being strongly traditional types--if exaggerated at times--the more traditional characterizations they reflect, the more margins are allowed socially for them to attempt to go beyond the character, and stretch, to do something a bit different. This kind of respect and social freedom is not accorded to the freak that seeks to stomp from the gate about how super-special and awesome they are.

And with the women--even while they are not always as up-front and abrasive towards such freak characters as the men are--the women players are still "Low-Key" hostile towards them. It makes me laugh watching the social dynamics play out at the table.

Then again, I don't have any players at my table that are pear-shaped refrigerators with rainbow blue hair and truckloads of bad attitudes about everything. I suspect that if anyone like that--like you see in the Twitter groups, or some of these interweb flies that hover about claiming to be gamers actually somehow showed up at the table, I don't think that they would receive a very warm reception. Just a suspicion on my part. *Laughing*

snip some more

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Good stuff SHARK. Sadly, and this is just my opinion, the blue-haired fridge harpies are the norm....and is what the younger/newer gamers expect in groups with safety tools abounding. The newish/younger gamers have been so plugged into social media, that they've fallen in line, when they agree or not. And you do have the occasional older gamer (who as Gad Saad calls the sneaky f0ckers) toe the line to be trolls and to "get" with the females....who despise them anyway....cause they're men.

Greetings!

Thorn, my friend! Thank you. Yeah, the whole pear-shaped refrigerators with rainbow blue hair and nails piercing their noses like a bull ring, tats everywhere, you know, the whole *look*. I don't get it. No one at my table ever looks like that, you know? Everyone I game with--away from the game table--all have important and meaningful jobs. If they looked like these freaks, they would never get hired. Beyond that, it reflects a deep sense of rebellion, and a mixture of entitlement and self-hatred to prance about like these freaks, desperate for attention and validation. Keeping a decent job, being respected by coworkers and colleagues, their families, and paying the bills--these things are very important to my gamers, and such considerations take higher priority than their fucking feelings about anything pretty much--let alone some self-diagnosed mental problem or half-imagined trauma from when they were a stupid, drunk teenager. They have important priorities and values that are greater than *themselves*--they get up in the morning every day, and do their duty, doing the grind. There is something very honourable and proud and dignified about being *selfless*, diligent, hard-working, and responsible. Of course, those values intertwine with personal decorum, dignity, and self-respect, as well as having a healthy respect for others around you. I don't think any of the blue-haired refrigerators have a clue at all about these kinds of values, and disciplines.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Shark,

If you ever write a book or game, you should call it "Toxic Males and Voluptuous Strumpets!"
The Seattle crowd would explode with shrieks of REEE I CANT EVEN WHERES MY XCARD!

Are you running Shadowdark, BX, something else?

Quote from: SHARK on September 14, 2023, 06:07:07 AMInterestingly, I have also observed that with various NPC's being strongly traditional types--if exaggerated at times--the more traditional characterizations they reflect, the more margins are allowed socially for them to attempt to go beyond the character, and stretch, to do something a bit different.

This piqued my curiosity. Can you think of a recent example of this sort of thing?

It sounds like what people are reacting to is less that characters try to reach outside stereotypical norms, and more about how and why they do so. Like, say someone's creating a female PC who wants to be the first to join a male order of knighthood.  Is she doing it because she wants to play through a story of someone accomplishing an incredibly difficult goal because she's just that driven by her love of swordplay, chivalry, horses and defending the innocent? Or is she doing it because she wants to prove how stupid such old-fashioned standards are and show how horrible the people who believe them are, and to be admired for a brave and special snowflake in so doing?  One of these approaches clearly works a lot better than the other in what's supposed to be essentially a cooperative activity.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on September 15, 2023, 06:34:12 PM

Quote from: SHARK on September 14, 2023, 06:07:07 AMInterestingly, I have also observed that with various NPC's being strongly traditional types--if exaggerated at times--the more traditional characterizations they reflect, the more margins are allowed socially for them to attempt to go beyond the character, and stretch, to do something a bit different.

This piqued my curiosity. Can you think of a recent example of this sort of thing?

It sounds like what people are reacting to is less that characters try to reach outside stereotypical norms, and more about how and why they do so. Like, say someone's creating a female PC who wants to be the first to join a male order of knighthood.  Is she doing it because she wants to play through a story of someone accomplishing an incredibly difficult goal because she's just that driven by her love of swordplay, chivalry, horses and defending the innocent? Or is she doing it because she wants to prove how stupid such old-fashioned standards are and show how horrible the people who believe them are, and to be admired for a brave and special snowflake in so doing?  One of these approaches clearly works a lot better than the other in what's supposed to be essentially a cooperative activity.

Greetings!

Hey there, Stephen! Great question, and very nice analysis. Essentially, you get my thinking here with this stuff very well.

As alluded to, the group as a whole--and myself certainly--have *zero patience* with Woke nonsense, "Post Modernism", "Deconstruction", Feminism,--blah, blah, more Marxist blabbering.

However, having said that, stretching beyond social and class norms, customs, traditions, and expectations is not necessarily a bad thing. And furthermore, when doing so is not riding in the vehicle of Feminism/Wokism/Post Modernism, such efforts can have value and be meaningful.

As an example, from my Thandor Campaign, I had a woman player, playing a Paladin. Naturally, such is very unusual in a male-dominated, masculine, Patriarchal world and society. However, in the spirit of the Medieval Romances, such as the tales of the Spanish Heroine and Knight, Bradamante, a few others in mythology, and of course, some historical inspiration like the warrior Queen of Armenia; a granddaughter of Genghis Khan; several Hindu and Chinese heroines; the Briton, Bodiccea, Warrior-Queen of the Celtic Iceni Tribe, who dared to defy Rome, and came very close to throwing Rome out of Britain entirely; and also the French Knight, Joan of Arc, who inspired the French armies to march to victory against the power of the English.

With such in mind, she sought to make her way in the world as a Paladin, serving a harsh and quasi-barbaric deity of War. She had to campaign hard on several fronts--not just against evil monsters, but also the sceptics within her own Temple organization, and then also various secular authorities. She also worked hard against various human nobles and merchant-princes who desired to plunder and exploit the northern forests--in the process, making war against the Elves that also shared some borders. She loved the Elves, the Forest creatures, but also the older, more tribal ways of the ancestors of the humans that lived in the region. Over time, and effort, she helped them see what was valued, and what was at stake--their heritage, their history, and their way of life--ultimately their identity--as opposed to what the human nobles and merchant lords from the Southern regions wanted to do--and had planned.

So, with all that said, you can imagine how she, as a character, went against various social and cultural norms and traditions. However, through her valour, her courage, but also her leadership, and several strong ways she remained very traditional and feminine--despite often wearing a suit of chainmail and carrying a Longsword (Laughing)--it seemed like more people felt more comfortable trusting her--even when she pushed boundaries--precisely because as you mentioned my friend, it's all about THE HOW AND WHY.

That's just one in-game example. Both NPC's and other Player Characters grew to enjoy her--and respect her--because she strove with great effort to exemplify a True and Righteous Knight, devoted to the Faith, the People, and the Kingdom.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Aglondir on September 14, 2023, 08:08:07 PM
Shark,

If you ever write a book or game, you should call it "Toxic Males and Voluptuous Strumpets!"
The Seattle crowd would explode with shrieks of REEE I CANT EVEN WHERES MY XCARD!

Are you running Shadowdark, BX, something else?

Greetings!

Aglondir! *Laughing* Yes, that book would make them all REEE!!! So funny! I love it!

Yes, I am currently playing Shadowdark rules, set within my Thandor World. It has been a blast! Great, fast system, easy, simple, and yet, room to expand and add additional detail as desired.

All without *The Stupid Train*. *Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK