I would promote an entry-level RPG with someone else's money.

Make something simple. Make it something that teaches some basic mathematics skill (Addition for example.) Utilize a popular license (Transformers most likely in this case.)
Call it a teaching game and really focus on finding a way to get the action adventure and playing a character elements into the game. Do not make it collectible. One of the failures of the Pokemon mini RPG...which is otherwise quite nice. Collectible is fun for kids--not so much for adults, especially when their is no need for it.

Quote from: RPGPundit;320643I don't give a fuck whether you like those games or not, they're the ones with the style that has worked to bring in new gamers, and nothing else has.

See how your verb there is in the past tense? There's a reason for that: Young adults can do other, and in their minds, better things these days.

So, in essence, your question is: How do I market a dog shit pie? Answer: You don't.

Seanchai

So your solution is basically euthanasia, Seanchai?

Well, good for you, go crawl over in that corner and die, if you like.

You are right about the "past tense" thing, but wrong about the reason: its not that kids stopped wanting to play RPGs, its that people stopped making these kinds of products. Its not that they waned in popularity. Its decidedly and markedly that the "Basic D&D" sets of the 90s were meant to be crappy crippleware that only existed to sell you the AD&D books, and then when that failed, everyone was shocked, SHOCKED; and declared "well, that's it, basic games must not work. I know, let's make only glossy hardcover books and charge uber-nerds $200 for them! Who needs new people? After all, our grotesquely overweight fanboys who never get any exercise and only eat pure grease will surely live forever!"

RPGpundit

There are around a hundred members of the role-play society at my Uni, if you assume 1/3rd of them are mature students like me, that still leaves 66 18 year olds that have found the way to the hobby. It is hardly a fucking geriatric only pastime.

What jadrax wrote.The hobby, if in a smaller size, will survive and renew. The industry? They are probably fucked in their current form.

Quote from: Silverlion;320919Do not make it collectible. One of the failures of the Pokemon mini RPG...which is otherwise quite nice. Collectible is fun for kids--not so much for adults, especially when their is no need for it.

The Pokemon jr. Adventure Game was not collectible. It was completely playable and not crippleware, and besides being labled "Set 1", a Set 2 never saw the light of day.

The game failed because of its reliance on a parent acting as a GM. Parents have no problem buying games for their children, even collectible ones--heck, they shelled out millions of $$$ for the Pokemon CCG, or Warhammer miniatures--but they want to be pretty much left alone after that.

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;320976The Pokemon jr. Adventure Game was not collectible. It was completely playable and not crippleware, and besides being labled "Set 1", a Set 2 never saw the light of day.

It has pre-scripted adventures, and the lack of the second book limits it somewhat. So while not strictly collectible its close enough to be a bother.  I picked up a copy for my friends kids, since they're more into the card game than not. It needed more. While it was playable, I still feel it was too little in the core set to really be effective.

Quote from: RPGPundit;320952So your solution is basically euthanasia, Seanchai?

You asked me how I would promote an entry level RPG. That's the answer. I wouldn't, because what worked 30 years ago, won't work today.

That's only the same as crawling over and dying in your febrile brain. As others have pointed out, many of us will be gaming in nursing homes.

Quote from: RPGPundit;320952You are right about the "past tense" thing, but wrong about the reason: its not that kids stopped wanting to play RPGs, its that people stopped making these kinds of products.

Except they didn't. We've been over this and I typed up a list once. In fact, there's an entry-level D&D product readily available right now.  

Seanchai

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;320870When asked what the biggest change in the new edition was they answered that they were surprised to learn that for many many  gamers Shadowrun First Edition was the first RPG.

Very interesting.  Thank you for that!

I wonder how they found Shadowrun and why they bought it.  Why when flipping through that book were they drawn in versus others?

Quote from: Malleus Arianorum;320876These are activity books -- a collection of one-page puzzles and activities printed on ultra-cheap paper.

Wasn't some publisher talking about doing a RPG aimed at 99 cent stores?

Was it Hinterwelt?  

Quote from: RPGPundit;320952Its decidedly and markedly that the "Basic D&D" sets of the 90s were meant to be crappy crippleware that only existed to sell you the AD&D books, and then when that failed, everyone was shocked,

I am still astounded that neither TSR nor WotC has put out a decent Intro D&D.  Its not rocket science.  4e Intro should have had 4 races / 4 classes / 4 levels in a big box with minis and monsters and dungeon tiles and pre-made adventures.   Instead, they sold shit on a shingle.

Quote from: Spinachcat;321129I wonder how they found Shadowrun and why they bought it.  Why when flipping through that book were they drawn in versus others?

I guess they didn't stumble upon it. I guess it was more like the old fashioned word of mouth / peer pressure thing, the same thing that got D&D started. (And it worked like that for Vampire, as well. And Magic The Gathering. And Pokemon.)

It just needs one person to discover it, either by accident or because the person is already a gamer with contacts to other circles.

What I found interesting was that Shadowrun apparently hit a key -- that the mix of cyberpunk and orks was more enticing to some would-be gamers than plain vanilla fantasy.

On a side note: That's why I found it so stupid to model Earthdawn after AD&D, and to rationalize all those AD&Disms in a similar-yet-completely-different system. They didn't need win over D&D players to try their fantasy game, they had already tied it to the SR background and thus their own "home grown" playership. They should have stuck with their house system.

Badly...

-clash

I'd release a player guide that borrowed terminology and perhaps a name from your typical computer game. The actual concepts don't have to match, but using the terminology of CRPGs would be a huge win. You'll get a lot of cranky grognards whining about how your game is just like WoW, but so what?

If I was really smart, I'd find a popular webcomic artist who started playing my game recently and posts about his sessions a lot, and I'd have him do the cover.

Quote from: RPGPundit;320726Yes, its true, in a slightly different way than the others. The others created gamers. V:tM created White Wolf players, ...

 This can also be applied in a way to D&D - There's a ton of people who only play D&D, and will touch no other games. There is a reason people who don't play D&D have a hard time forming a group sometimes.

  That being said, D&D has brought so many players to the table, that a small industry exists catering to those who are looking for something more.

Quote from: Seanchai;321123Except they didn't. We've been over this and I typed up a list once. In fact, there's an entry-level D&D product readily available right now.  

 Crippleware does not an entry level product make. And even if it wasn’t crippleware, if it’s not marketed right it won’t go anywhere anyway.

And that’s the problem – there may be more than one RPG out there that would make a good intro RPG – but without a big marketing push it will go nowhere.

  The only RPG company with the potential to make that push is WOTC. But they have remained singularly uninterested in doing so.

 We don't know if it will work, because no one has tried it since TSR binned the basic sets back in the day.
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Quote from: jadrax;320953There are around a hundred members of the role-play society at my Uni, if you assume 1/3rd of them are mature students like me, that still leaves 66 18 year olds that have found the way to the hobby. It is hardly a fucking geriatric only pastime.

You have to remember that Pundit *IS* the hobby.

When he quit playing in the late 90's, the hobby was at its absolute low point and was in a state of utter desolation.

His pick for the Ennies, Starblazers, is objectively the best game. Anyone who voted for anything else, is an idiot.

So of course, since he is getting older, the entire hobby must be aging along with him.

Objective fact.