There's all kinds of people in the industry bemoaning the death of the "friendly local gaming store" (even though many, if not most of these, were far from friendly).

I have already said it before: Let the fuckers die. Most of the times, if they are "dying" its because they deserve to. Its because they gouge their customers with price-hikes, provide godawful service because they're a bunch of amateurs or they've hired shitheads for employees, and create an utterly horrific public image for gamers by allowing themselves to become a haven for all the local community Lawncrappers.
The Gaming Stores that aren't like this are the ones that are actually surviving and doing well.

And of course these days, there is virtually no function that the Game Store provides that cannot be provided elsewhere, and usually better. You can buy most of the games that people actually want to play at the major chain bookstores. You can buy the rest of the RPGs online.

The only aspect that LGS have that has not yet been reproduced elsewhere is the aspect of LGS as a local gamer focus point for networking. And frankly, LGS suck ass for that. Its just that often, the LGS is the ONLY place you can find other gamers, connect to play campaigns, etc.

So my question is: what alternatives are there to this one issue? How do we figure out a better way to network local gamers, so that we can finally let the LGS die and not overly lament its passing?

RPGPundit

I used to ascribe to the "three tier system" that GAMA promotes left-right-and-sideways (a phrase that always bothered me, aren't "left" and "right" already "sideways?" ...but I digress...).

The tier system is a last-ditch effort to cling to a failed economic model that placed an incredible burden on the producers and developers of RPGs and spread the wealth of the industry to a select few.  And, no, I'm not talking about Hasbro.  

Distributors make a cushy 10% in a volume based business on this plan.  You do realize that Wal-Mart would kill for a guaranteed 10% margin, don't you?  It's why they sell little rinky-dink items for 120%, to make up for all items they flat give away (like toothpaste and bleach) or make a pittance on (like diapers and DVDs).  Distributors fill in those same niches with dice, mats, trinkets, etc. for a higher margin (as do the stores).

Stores are guaranteed a 50% margin on the books they purchase.  ("Guarantee" may be too strong a term, but they get a 50% price cut, which means a base of a 100% markup.)  This is supposed to give them the means to "experiment" with indie product, but this has failed miserably and most sores ...er... "stores" seldom wander beyond the realm of "guaranteed sell" items.

Who is "taking it in the ass" to support these organizations that are often run with all the precision of a steam-powered rock crusher?  The publishers.

Small press get 40% of their cover price, gross.  After paying for a 2000 copy print run, paying artists, writers, layout people, editors, etc. the cost for the average 2000 run, 250 page book is $15 - $20 (bear in mind, this means paying the artists get a fraction of what they can get in other industries and writers earning, on average, about $.03 a word).  That same book will then sell to the distributor for $20 - $25.  

Yep.  $5 a book.  At best.  2000 books.  That's a gross profit of maybe $10,000 in a year, for a fully successful book.

(And I didn't figure any marketing costs into those numbers.)

I love the internet and what it has done for small publishers.  PDFs (no printing costs) sold on the internet (no distributor cut, no store cut) allowing publishers to "reap the whirlwind" and actually get enough sales to pay for some marketing efforts (still not enough for salaries to pay for room and board, though...)

I've never found a gamer at a LGS. Always either online of friends I've known for years.

I do buy books from my gaming store sometimes when I don't have the patience to wait for shipping and I've got the extra cash to blow. When times are tight, (and they're tighter than most nowadays) I'll buy from online sources to save money.

There is something to be said for being able to browse and check out what a book is going to be like before buying it though.

A local store I frequent always seems to have tables full of card gamers in the middle of the store (the SMALL, already cramped store). Grown fatbeards positively SCREAMING at each other over the proper usage of some Pokemon card or other.

The place is crummy-looking and the bathroom seriously looks like part of a goddamn Silent Hill level.

Prices are cover and even the used stuff doesn't seem to be that discounted.

It is a huge turn-off. Is there any wonder I let Amazon and FRP Games handle most of my purchases?

Quote from: RPGPunditThere's all kinds of people in the industry bemoaning the death of the "friendly local gaming store" (even though many, if not most of these, were far from friendly).

I have already said it before: Let the fuckers die. Most of the times, if they are "dying" its because they deserve to. Its because they gouge their customers with price-hikes, provide godawful service because they're a bunch of amateurs or they've hired shitheads for employees, and create an utterly horrific public image for gamers by allowing themselves to become a haven for all the local community Lawncrappers.
The Gaming Stores that aren't like this are the ones that are actually surviving and doing well.

And of course these days, there is virtually no function that the Game Store provides that cannot be provided elsewhere, and usually better. You can buy most of the games that people actually want to play at the major chain bookstores. You can buy the rest of the RPGs online.

The only aspect that LGS have that has not yet been reproduced elsewhere is the aspect of LGS as a local gamer focus point for networking. And frankly, LGS suck ass for that. Its just that often, the LGS is the ONLY place you can find other gamers, connect to play campaigns, etc.

So my question is: what alternatives are there to this one issue? How do we figure out a better way to network local gamers, so that we can finally let the LGS die and not overly lament its passing?

RPGPundit

Sounds like someone's been going to the wrong store. You get your picture put up on the wall of shame?

Seriously, I live in the American South. It's a frigging dead zone. Their "one redeeming value" is more than enough for me.

And I am accustomed to good service, fair prices, etc. My particular store moved to the interweb, which has sucked for me this past year because I haven't owned a computer. The internet is not always a viable alternative.

As for solutions: Rather than bitch and moan, I'm going to open a store. The last one didn't go bankrupt, it was just more profitable online. So if the store itself was viable and money was not my #1 priority, then I should be able to run said store. I know an area with alot of foot-traffic to and from a nearby school. That would be perfect.

As for Indie publishing... again, why not an in-store funtion?

That'll solve my problem. The rest of you are on your own as far as I'm concerned.

Quote from: YamoA local store I frequent always seems to have tables full of card gamers in the middle of the store (the SMALL, already cramped store). Grown fatbeards positively SCREAMING at each other over the proper usage of some Pokemon card or other.

The place is crummy-looking and the bathroom seriously looks like part of a goddamn Silent Hill level.

Prices are cover and even the used stuff doesn't seem to be that discounted.

It is a huge turn-off. Is there any wonder I let Amazon and FRP Games handle most of my purchases?

My son (8 at the time) and I were at a Toy's R Us when they were having some sort of Pokemon tournament and we're walking by when this greasy fat 30 something stands up and yells some freakish comment while pulling this card out of his deck with this like scary wild eyed look on his face. I'm thinking he won the match or something but he scared the living shit out of (what had to be) eight year old kid he was playing. Freak. I wanted to walk up and punch him out, but that would send a wrong message to the 'yoots' so I hustled my son away, shook my head and went about my business. I don't take my kids anywhere near gaming stores.

Quote from: Myst3ry M@nMy son (8 at the time) and I were at a Toy's R Us when they were having some sort of Pokemon tournament and we're walking by when this greasy fat 30 something stands up and yells some freakish comment while pulling this card out of his deck with this like scary wild eyed look on his face. I'm thinking he won the match or something but he scared the living shit out of (what had to be) eight year old kid he was playing. Freak. I wanted to walk up and punch him out, but that would send a wrong message to the 'yoots' so I hustled my son away, shook my head and went about my business. I don't take my kids anywhere near gaming stores.

Well, the ones at this store seem to be all adults and older teens. Not that that's really better, neccessarily.

I think the bigger issue is why are so many game stores so poorly run? A store can be a great place to meet people and run games, if the store is conducive to that sort of thing.

IME, the crap stores are dying off. It used to be that people would grit their teeth and visit a bottom-of-toilet store because they couldn't find RPGs or CCGs anywhere else. In the US, Borders and Barnes & Noble are changing that.

I think that the spooky, Silent Hill store is a relic of the 1990s, when only hardcore geeks played games. With the rise of Eurogames, families and non-hardcore geeks are getting into games.

Those people don't shop at the store pulled out of Silent Hill. They want a nicer, boutique kind of place. Every store I have visited that opened after 2000 has fit that description. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I think (and hope) it's a trend.

Without a fad to convince people to pinch their noses and wander into Stenchville, stores can't survive with that identity.

Quote from: Myst3ry M@nMy son (8 at the time) and I were at a Toy's R Us when they were having some sort of Pokemon tournament and we're walking by when this greasy fat 30 something stands up and yells some freakish comment while pulling this card out of his deck with this like scary wild eyed look on his face. I'm thinking he won the match or something but he scared the living shit out of (what had to be) eight year old kid he was playing. Freak. I wanted to walk up and punch him out, but that would send a wrong message to the 'yoots' so I hustled my son away, shook my head and went about my business. I don't take my kids anywhere near gaming stores.

The same thing happened atlast year's Gen Con.  This greasy-looking 30.40-something guy was playing a kid in the Pokemon Card Game and I guess he won, because he stood up, screamed "EAT IT!  BOOOOOYAH!!! YEAH!!!  YEAH!!!  THAT'S IT!!" and started mocking his opponent, some 10 year-old kid.

I'd like to think this was just the same guy, but I'm betting not.

The guy is omnipresent. He was spawned from the Simpsons and is a projection of our collective subconscious.

On the plus side, I'm pretty sure it's legal to shoot people who "Boo-yah" on-sight.

I've had generally good experiences at game stores.

The ones that have held card tournaments and RPG sessions have generally kept the players of a given session within the same age bracket. So I've rarely seen the 35-year-old-vs.-the-8-year-old thing, which is just creepy in any context.

I think game shops serve a valuable purpose. They encourage socialization, which God knows a lot of gamers need to experience and learn from. Humans are a social animal, and it's healthy for them to get together and hobnob with new people on occasion.

mearls mentions that the shops he's seen that have opened since around 2000 have been much more user-friendly. I tend to agree with that assessment, but I've had the good fortune to have patronized some truly kick-ass game shops, some of them having been around since the 1980s. Places like Collectors Warehouse in Cleveland, Matrix Games and Diversions to the west of Cleveland, the Bookery just outside Dayton, Game Empire in San Diego...these and maybe a half-dozen others I've frequented over the years have been top-notch. Attentive and responsive staff, good selection of material, clean and well-lit...the only thing most of them have lacked is air conditioning, mostly due to the cost involved (and yeah, I realize the implications for "gamer funk"). If they'd been the dank, smelly, unprofessional places many seem to have been inflicted with, I'd never have gone back.

So, I don't think we need to move beyond the LGS. We just need to be more discriminating in the places we patronize, and the ones that suck will die off and the ones that don't will stay around. I think one of the main problems is that gamers seem willing to put up with a lot of bullshit, whether from game shops or game companies. That kind of attitude is what needs to change.

QuoteI think that the spooky, Silent Hill store is a relic of the 1990s...

Actually, if you work full-time for Wizards, you probably live in the area and my even know of the store I'm describing.

Quote from: mearlsI think the bigger issue is why are so many game stores so poorly run? A store can be a great place to meet people and run games, if the store is conducive to that sort of thing.

IME, the crap stores are dying off. It used to be that people would grit their teeth and visit a bottom-of-toilet store because they couldn't find RPGs or CCGs anywhere else. In the US, Borders and Barnes & Noble are changing that.

I think that the spooky, Silent Hill store is a relic of the 1990s, when only hardcore geeks played games. With the rise of Eurogames, families and non-hardcore geeks are getting into games.

Those people don't shop at the store pulled out of Silent Hill. They want a nicer, boutique kind of place. Every store I have visited that opened after 2000 has fit that description. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I think (and hope) it's a trend.

Without a fad to convince people to pinch their noses and wander into Stenchville, stores can't survive with that identity.

Still... where do computerless geeks go for indie games? The thing is... Barnes&Noble and Borders still only carry the mainstream shiz. So the death of the nearly-exclusively gaming store is still very much a regrettable circumstance.

We have a couple gaming stores in my town that are worthless and need to die. However, the gaming store that I frequent though, I have to throw props to. The kid that does the ordering knows his shit. Their selection is above and beyond anything I've seen, and not just D20. He pays attention to message boards and sees watches for what people are buzzing about.