Is It Possible to Play D&D, say 5E; without Character Classes, as we know it?

Razor 007 · March 16, 2019, 11:12:36 AM

Quote from: jhkim;1079253Obviously, taking out classes and levels makes the game a hybrid system that differs more from the original. But still, character advancement is only one piece of the game. There's a horde of other mechanics - combat, skills, spells, monsters, and so forth - which are unchanged. And D&D works very differently than GURPS in those.

In 5E, it's even official that NPCs don't use the class-and-level system.

At this point, I think the only play rules that reference character level directly is in spellcasting - and there you can just do what is done for NPCs, which is to have "spellcaster level" as an independent stat. Everything else is entered into the character sheet separately - like skills, saving throws, Base Attack Bonus, and hit dice. So if I were to adopt this for my D&D5 game, the only time things would change would be when players apply experience to advance their characters. All the rest of the game would be exactly the same.

I think it would become a game based upon Skills, Strategy, and Techniques. But then again; it should be anyway, shouldn't it?

Spinachcat · March 16, 2019, 10:30:55 PM

I am surprised somebody hasn't done a True20 style book for 5e.

Or is it out there? I mean, beyond a Freeform 5e blog post.

I loved True20, far more than other 3e games. It nailed doing D20 as universal system.

AsenRG · March 16, 2019, 10:59:39 PM

Quote from: Razor 007;1078326Hey, I know this question is out there.....

I don't profess to have an answer; aside from allowing every character to play a Fighter / Magic User (Magus), and allowing them to choose from both Arcane and Divine Spell Lists.

Any ideas?

I'm pretty sure it's been done already:).

Omega · March 17, 2019, 01:03:46 AM

In the BX system you could pretty much create a Superman do-everything sort of character. The drawback was you leveled up glacially. And that was the limiter. The more goodies you piled on, the slower you were going to level compared to a fighter or thief. Much the same with 2e's system. The limiter was EXP costs to level.

That would not work in 5e as the exp is a flat rate for all classes.

Mankcam · March 17, 2019, 05:44:49 AM

Ben Milton's Knave is not D&D 5E, but it's a little cottage-indie D20 OGL fantasy rpg and it has no Character Classes
Uses D&D Abilities and core mechanic
So it feels like a simple version of D&D without Classes:
Here's the author discussing it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mtf3vDycfmE
Very cheap on DrivethruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/250888/Knave

Mankcam · March 17, 2019, 05:51:39 AM

yeah True20 had a cool character class structure, you could rift almost any concept off that

Mankcam · March 17, 2019, 05:52:39 AM

Quote from: Spinachcat;1079434I am surprised somebody hasn't done a True20 style book for 5e.
Or is it out there? I mean, beyond a Freeform 5e blog post.
I loved True20, far more than other 3e games. It nailed doing D20 as universal system.

Yeah True20 had a cool character class structure, you could rift almost any concept off that

Omega · March 17, 2019, 08:50:30 AM

Quote from: Mankcam;1079463Ben Milton's Knave is not D&D 5E, but it's a little cottage-indie D20 OGL fantasy rpg and it has no Character Classes
Uses D&D Abilities and core mechanic
So it feels like a simple version of D&D without Classes:
Here's the author discussing it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mtf3vDycfmE
Very cheap on DrivethruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/250888/Knave

d20 Modern is more or less a classless system. You choose a base and build off that.

Razor 007 · March 17, 2019, 02:14:40 PM

Quote from: Mankcam;1079463Ben Milton's Knave is not D&D 5E, but it's a little cottage-indie D20 OGL fantasy rpg and it has no Character Classes
Uses D&D Abilities and core mechanic
So it feels like a simple version of D&D without Classes:
Here's the author discussing it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mtf3vDycfmE
Very cheap on DrivethruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/250888/Knave

It has occurred to me before, that one could run a game based just on the 6 Abilities; D20 Roll Under. Forget the modifiers. They aren't needed.

S'mon · March 17, 2019, 04:21:31 PM

Quote from: jhkim;1079253At this point, I think the only play rules that reference character level directly is in spellcasting

Character Level is referenced for casting cantrips, but there is no 'caster level' as such. Spell power keys off the level of the spell slot used.

Mankcam · March 17, 2019, 05:42:58 PM

Check out Sharp Swords & Savage Spells, it pretty much does this (except it has distilled it down to four abilities).

However it does have three broad Classes (called Archetypes), but you can tweak these to cover almost any concept, so its much more flexible than the usual D&D classes.

A great little game!