Quote from: Krimson;1036844Doesn't Conan predate The Hobbit by five years?

Not sure about the years, but yes, he does:).
Which kinda explains Tolkien's approach that older is better;).

Quote from: Krimson;1036844Doesn't Conan predate The Hobbit by five years?

Give or take a few months, yes.

The Phoenix On The Sword is December 1932, The Hobbit September 21, 1937.

Quote from: Bucket;1036578Hahaha to be honest I find horses and horse riding a really traditional Tolkien trope.

That's rather silly. "Horseriding" is prevalent through history. If you call it a Tolkien trope just because there are horses and riders in The Lord of the Rings, then by the same logic you should also call eating, drinking, speaking, walking, swords, clothes, combat and buildings "Tolkien tropes", because they're also in The Lord of the Rings.

Also, how could it be a Tolkien thing, if the heroes spend most of the story walking on foot?

Quote from: Premier;1037169That's rather silly. "Horseriding" is prevalent through history. If you call it a Tolkien trope just because there are horses and riders in The Lord of the Rings, then by the same logic you should also call eating, drinking, speaking, walking, swords, clothes, combat and buildings "Tolkien tropes", because they're also in The Lord of the Rings.

Also, how could it be a Tolkien thing, if the heroes spend most of the story walking on foot?

Stupid post by little known poster with small post count.

AC 4, 6 + 3 HD, rubbery green skin, regenerates 3 HP per round.

Quote from: Premier;1037169Also, how could it be a Tolkien thing, if the heroes spend most of the story walking on foot?

That could explain why so many video games can be described as Walking Simulators.

The most Tolkein thing I find in D&D is the party membership. WotC altered that with a plethora of new nonhuman PCs, but the Elf + Dwarf + Hobbit + Humans always feels very LotR to me. If I am going for a non-Tolkein D&D campaign, I am definitely altering the PC choices.

I've mentioned this before (maybe even in this thread, I can't remember) that I have run a couple campaigns where the Fiend Folio represent ALL the life on the world (plus humans). The weirdness of FF1e really shines when creating a world from whole cloth and you look for connections between the beasties to build the setting. Also, you start looking for what's on the menu for everyone and how that affects the setting.

Both times we've had tremendous fun. I would do it again in a heartbeat and I really should pull together my notes (and my head out of my ass while I'm at it!)

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1034373My objection to gunpowder in D&D is that those who have wanted it have wanted machine guns and Garands, or at the VERY least, Winchesters and Colt Peacemakers.

I found Iron Kingdoms did "guns in D&D" surprisingly well. Their steampunk world felt right and I never felt the gunslingers overshadowed the other classes. They were effectively a different take on archers. I played a couple different IK campaigns (D20 and GURPS) and I was impressed how they managed it (and I'm not a D20 or GURPS fan).

But I'm a huge Gamma World fan so I have a sword, you have a plasma grenade, and that dude has laser eyeballs works great for me.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1035513* does "Naked Old Geezer Shimmy Shimmy Ko-Ko Bop Happy Dance" *

Pics or it didn't happen!

Quote from: AsenRG;1036772Nope, there are several good reasons why you don't use carnivores or omnivores as mounts. Besides, people were riding horses not only in Europe, in fact, horseriding was arguably invented on another continent;).
Make them small steppe horses that can't carry a knight, if you want to avoid Tolkien, but keep the settings making sense. Remember, RE Howard had horseriders from different places, and nobody accuses him of being like Tolkien:D!

Hahaha I still think there needs to be more fantastical riding options beyond horses and horseriding but I concede that it makes sense to keep the mounts herbivores.

Quote from: Premier;1037169That's rather silly. "Horseriding" is prevalent through history. If you call it a Tolkien trope just because there are horses and riders in The Lord of the Rings, then by the same logic you should also call eating, drinking, speaking, walking, swords, clothes, combat and buildings "Tolkien tropes", because they're also in The Lord of the Rings.

Also, how could it be a Tolkien thing, if the heroes spend most of the story walking on foot?

Like I said I've never read The Lord of the Rings only The Hobbit, which I love, but the Lord of the Rings movies which I have watched, and also loved, has a huge focus on the Riders of Rohan which is what I was basing my statement on that horse riding was a Tolkien trope.  I would argue that the things you bring up aren't tropes but simply exist within the story as elements.  I'm not great at articulating precisely what I mean so my apologies if it doesn't make sense.  

The walking thing though is a definite Tolkien trope which I would eliminate by maybe riding a giant sloth to wherever your heading.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1037183Stupid post by little known poster with small post count.

AC 4, 6 + 3 HD, rubbery green skin, regenerates 3 HP per round.

I'm definitely not an Encephalon Gorger.  A jerk maybe but not a Gorger.

Quote from: Bucket;1036578Hahaha to be honest I find horses and horse riding a really traditional Tolkien trope.  Where are the man size riding dogs?  Where are the racing snails?  Where are the goat drawn chariots?  Where are the giant flying whales?  A D&D setting should embrace more fantastic transportation in my opinion if it wants to escape Tolkien because it's not just eliminating humanoids but also the various other cornerstones of Tolkien worldbuilding.

What about orcs riding worgs (big boars), a wizard in a sled pulled by hares and people being carried by eagles? All in the Lord of the Rings or Hobbit films.

For me, Tolkein is a Dark Lord of some kind, ruling an empire of orcs, goblins and bad men, being opposed by an alliance of dwarves, elves and hobbits.

I love Tolkien but Middle-earth it is not one of my favorite settings to play in.

This is good:

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1033557

So, besides "vanilla", my favorite flavors are indeed Dark Sun, Planescape-y and Ravenloft-y:

http://methodsetmadness.blogspot.com.br/2017/10/my-four-favorite-metasettings.html

Days of the Damned - Dark Videogame World

I love "gothic videogames" since I was a child. Their settings, monsters and traps are better fitted for RPG than gothic novels and most horror movies (although mangas such as Berserk an Claymore are also big influences). Dark Souls is the most important inspiration in recent years. The idea is to put the PCs heroes in dark, desolate worlds where every institution is unreliable, there is no central government to keep things stable (also, no law and no boundaries) and the monsters are bigger and nastier than anything you will find in other settings. The gods are absent or unreliable, non-humans are rare and usually evil (although monsters of all kinds - even Hammer horror - are everywhere), and magic is corrupting. Nights are long and days are foggy and gray.

My (unpublished) Days of the Damned RPG focuses on this genre (here is a comparison with D&D e 13th Age mechanics). Although there are some good RPGs with similar themes out there (Dragon Age, SotDL, WFRPG), my own writing focuses on human PCs and avoids playing for laughs or embracing nihilism. The overall feel is of decadence and chaos, instead of post-apocalyptic badassery and rebirth.

Characters: human (or near human) eager to fight terrible monsters with limited resources. Don't get attached.

Locations: giant ruins, near-empty villages, haunted forests.

Inspirations: Dark Souls, Castlevania, Ghouls 'n Ghosts, The Witcher (haven't read the books), Berserk, and to a minor extent Bloodborne, Dragon Age, Skyrim, Ravenloft, Lamentations of the Flame Princess. Also, if you're looking for gothic RPG stuff, you can find awesome ideas in Tales of the Grotesque and Dungeonesque.



Ecumenopolis - High fantasy Multiplane Teradungeon

Other type of setting I enjoy is the "super high fantasy", where heroes deal with multiple planes of existence, mega-cities with endless dungeons, and magic so powerful and advanced that it can become indistinguishable from high tech.

Society is very urbanized and as complex as our own; warring factions are bound by byzantine laws enforced by sorcery; and the (very strange) gods will often meddle in the affairs of the City. Civilization is booming; it could reach singularity or destroy itself any day, although it has lasted for hundreds of years. Magical creatures and items are commonplace, but "traditional" fantasy are almost verboten: no orcs, dwarves, or traditional elves. Ravnica is my main inspiration here, but I there is plenty of other stuff I can find no better place for, such as Planescape and China Miéville.

D&D 5e seems to be a perfect fit; characters become extremely powerful and might even shape reality but are still susceptible of being brought down by a powerful gang of thugs.

Characters: anything goes, except the usual stuff!

Locations: mazes, enormous buildings, endless cities, back alleys, courtrooms and arenas.

Inspirations: Ravnica, Talislanta, Ptolus, Star Wars, Planescape, China Miéville.




Beneath the Bloody Sun - Post-apoc Survival Savagery

My own version of Dark Sun, with lots of Tékumel, Clark Ashton Smith and french comic book artists. Mother Nature was made barren and the world itself hates life. Now, the post-apocalyptic wastelands are ruled by city-states inspired by ancient history. Life is cheap and every resource - metal, magic, water - is scarce. Instead of horses and lions, you get feathered dinosaurs, giant worms and insectoid-people. There is radiation, teleportation, and lasers from ancient times  - but even the simplest technologies are indistinguishable from magic to the people of this primitive planet.

Characters: mostly humans but also other mutant and alien types.

Locations: great cities surrounded by walls, ziggurats, endless wastes of scorching sun.

Inspirations: see the complete list here, plus Talislanta, GURPS Fantasy II, etc. Tags: bloody sun.

Quote from: Premier;1037169That's rather silly. "Horseriding" is prevalent through history. If you call it a Tolkien trope just because there are horses and riders in The Lord of the Rings, then by the same logic you should also call eating, drinking, speaking, walking, swords, clothes, combat and buildings "Tolkien tropes", because they're also in The Lord of the Rings.

You forgot pipe smoking.

Quote from: Bucket;1036578Hahaha to be honest I find horses and horse riding a really traditional Tolkien trope.  Where are the man size riding dogs?  Where are the racing snails?  Where are the goat drawn chariots?  Where are the giant flying whales?  A D&D setting should embrace more fantastic transportation in my opinion if it wants to escape Tolkien because it's not just eliminating humanoids but also the various other cornerstones of Tolkien worldbuilding.

With all the human-like creatures you find in a typical fantasy world (Tolkienesque or not), all the exotic beasts and most importantly, all the magic charms and special abilities available, it always seemed odd that most mounts and beasts of burden in campaigns are the same ones you find in real life. I had dwarves riding giant bighorn sheep and elves riding Irish elk in my campaign decades before Peter Jackson put them in his movies. I had pygmies in an East African-ish land who rode ostriches, while other natives had domesticated the quagga. Most recently, I stole George Martin's idea of having giants riding mammoths.

Quote from: Bucket;1036526Personally I think it's really up to the GM to make the setting less Tolkien.  I'm not a big Tolkien fan, I love the Hobbit but I've never read the Lord of the Rings and most of my fantasy musings are inspired by Glen Cook, David Gemmell and a few other fantasy action orientated authors.  As other people have said you have to strip out all the things that are representative of Tolkien.  Elves, dwarves, hobbits, orcs, goblins anything that has Tolkien feel to it.

I don't think you have to strip these things out so much as de-emphasize them, or push them into the background. I mean, Westeros would still be humanocentric even if elves lived in one or more of the forests, or if one of the houses recruited orcs to fight for them (just swap out one of the Wildling or mountain clans with orcs and you wouldn't miss a beat).

Quote from: RPGPundit;1037849You forgot pipe smoking.

Pipe-smoking does remind me of Tolkien, actually. Especially if you include tricks with the smoke;).

But yes, if you replace horses because of this, the next thing you should replace are swords. Macuahuitls should be fine, though:D!

Quote from: AsenRG;1037975Pipe-smoking does remind me of Tolkien, actually. Especially if you include tricks with the smoke;).

It's made LoTR more enjoyable for me, that's for sure.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1038142It's made LoTR more enjoyable for me, that's for sure.

Then we agree on it:).
So would you replace horses and swords with riding wolves* and macuahuitls in order to make a setting less Tolkien-like? Or would you change the reason and frequency of how people use swords;)?


*Which also remind of Tolkien, since it's specified that goblins actually ride wolves.

Quote from: AsenRG;1038803Then we agree on it:).
So would you replace horses and swords with riding wolves* and macuahuitls in order to make a setting less Tolkien-like? Or would you change the reason and frequency of how people use swords;)?


*Which also remind of Tolkien, since it's specified that goblins actually ride wolves.

No, all that stuff is stupid. It's a classic case of mistaking the trappings for the essence.