Quote from: S'mon;1034214Primeval Thule is the best effort I've seen at making D&D feel less Tolkien without changing the player-side rules at all. Basically it gives everything a Kull/Conan/Elric patina.

Thirded. We're on commission for this, right?

Quote from: S'mon;1034214Primeval Thule is the best effort I've seen at making D&D feel less Tolkien without changing the player-side rules at all. Basically it gives everything a Kull/Conan/Elric patina.

Thirded. We're on commission for this, right?

Did anyone mention yet "starting by killing off all the demihumans"? Because that's where I'd start.

Quote from: AsenRG;1034243Did anyone mention yet "starting by killing off all the demihumans"? Because that's where I'd start.

A bit extreme, but that'd definitely do the job. Especially when applied to the non-Tolkein demihumans (dragonborn, aasimar, tiefling, etc.) "Cosmopolitan species freakshow" is one non-Tolkien extreme; "humans only" is another. For "not Tolkien", I prefer the latter.

Quote from: RandyB;1034244A bit extreme, but that'd definitely do the job. Especially when applied to the non-Tolkein demihumans (dragonborn, aasimar, tiefling, etc.) "Cosmopolitan species freakshow" is one non-Tolkien extreme; "humans only" is another. For "not Tolkien", I prefer the latter.

...how is that extreme? Seriously asking:). To me, it's merely a good first step.
Especially since after that, I'd simply remove the Vancian-style magic-users and clerics as character option. Not because they're so much Tolkien-like, they aren't, but to achieve an aesthetic that's definitely non-Tolkien. In fact, it's directly opposed to Tolkien.

Want to play a wizard? Play someone who negotiates with outsiders for every bit of mojo, or needs long preparations and rituals!
And none of the outsiders and rituals are benevolent. Not even those used for healing. You don't heal by casting Cure Light Wounds, you heal by summoning the Crocodile Spirit and placating him, so he eats your pain away. If you're lucky, he'd also eat the reasons for your pain, too.

At this point, everyone should get the dual message that a) it's definitely not Tolkien, and b) it's a world that desperately needs heroes that do the right thing:D!

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1033530How does one make a campaign setting less Tolkien? What are the styles and world building elements that make the westerns, pulps, Oz, etc unique from Tolkien clones?

Set them in different periods, in different cultures or in different settings.

Just because a setting has elves and dwarves, doesn't mean it is Tolkieny. Elves and dwarves came before Tolkien.

Middle Earth has the Horse Riders of Rohan, that doesn't mean that settings with horse riders as a culture are Tolkieny. Horse rider cultures could be based on the various steppe nomads, on American plains Indians and so on.

It is easy to say that a seting with elves, orcs, goblins and halflings is Tolkieny, but I think that is just lazy.

Quote from: AsenRG;1034245...how is that extreme? Seriously asking:). To me, it's merely a good first step.

It gets the job done, definitely. But equating the more common demihuman races (elf, dwarf, halfling-as-hobbit) to "Tolkien-ish" is a bit inaccurate. The racial makeup of the Fellowship was a gross anomaly that got an abundance of "camera time" because they were the focus of the major events at that point in the history of Middle Earth. The racial cosmopolitanism that is so characteristic of D&D and AD&D after about 1980 isn't "Tolkien-ish" to me. It's "D&D-ish".

OTOH, one easy way to have a non-Tolkien-ish D&D setting is to add historically accurate gunpowder and firearms. Another is "no PC arcane spellcasters".

Quote from: RandyB;1034255OTOH, one easy way to have a non-Tolkien-ish D&D setting is to add historically accurate gunpowder and firearms. ".

I find that Star Dwarf laser pistols and elven anti-grav sleds have much the same effect!

Quote from: Gorilla_Zod;1034265I find that Star Dwarf laser pistols and elven anti-grav sleds have much the same effect!

Yup. But "historically accurate gunpowder" is more of a D&D heresy - perhaps the D&D heresy.

Quote from: Gorilla_Zod;1034265I find that Star Dwarf laser pistols and elven anti-grav sleds have much the same effect!

I like the cut of your jib.

Quote from: RandyB;1034270Yup. But "historically accurate gunpowder" is more of a D&D heresy - perhaps the D&D heresy.

You're 100% on that. I think that's where a game like Fantasy AGE tries to distinguish itself, by putting gunpowder front and center, and it's also why I love Lamentations of the Flame Princess so much.

Last session one of my players found out from another PC that gunpowder and firearms are produced in his home city. The look of shock and creeping delight on Player A's face was lovely, as was the the ensuing argument, because Player B is on the run and has no intention of ever returning home. But yeah, the fact that you can get your musket on in my D&D game caused the same sort of ripples as a big plot reveal or something.

Quote from: Krimson;1034273I like the cut of your jib.

Cheers! Always trying to keep it Medieval Authentic(tm).

Musket is WAY too advanced for my 14th century.  Hand cannone, baby.

My objection to gunpowder in D&D is that those who have wanted it have wanted machine guns and Garands, or at the VERY least, Winchesters and Colt Peacemakers.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1034373Musket is WAY too advanced for my 14th century.  Hand cannone, baby.

My objection to gunpowder in D&D is that those who have wanted it have wanted machine guns and Garands, or at the VERY least, Winchesters and Colt Peacemakers.

I've seen a little of that, but it seems mostly tied to my problem (at least up where I live and again this is mine) is this belief that guns are somehow more lethal than having your head cut off, or chest caved in.  A lot of it is Hollywoodism, I know.  But that's my problem.

Of course, there are a lot of people who complain that Daggers aren't lethal enough, but everyone seems to forget that in the real world, knife deaths happen in one of usually two ways.  Single stab wound to a vital, target bleeds to death.  Or multiple stab wounds, target bleeds to death faster.

I've seen it mostly from kids who want to mow down mooks, and the occasional near-psychopath.