I haven't run or played in a dungeon crawl in probably twenty years, and I was just wondering how players handle mapping, especially for big dungeons / megadungeons these days. Good old fashioned graph paper and pencil? Digital tools? Does it all go on the battle mat? Do you even bother mapping out dungeons as a player, or just let it slide?

That topic fascinates me, actually. I'd love to hear some feedback on this, because honestly don't see how this works practically at a game table, without the DM making some painstakingly accurate measurements of each corridor and room dimensions.

So... does anyone actually does the "players mapping as they play" thing? How did that work out for you?

As for me, when I DM, either there's no map at all, or I use dry erase tact-tiles (and/or other 2D tiles printed out) at miniatures size and draw on them, or I use the full monty, with 3D decors, Dwarven Forge et cetera.

I.e. when I use miniatures:



Or this:



Or this:

That's some propalicious goings-on in that penultimate photo, Benoist.

Dwarven Forge FTW.

I have a bunch of sets, and I love to use them. I should be aware of what the next course of action of the PCs should be before the game session, know that it'll be exploration mostly, or with one (or a bunch of) tactical set-pieces during the game, so that doesn't happen all the time. But when I get the occasion and feel like it, that's prop galore!

Yes, I used to map as a player.  We also used to have a Party Caller as well.

The culmination of my dungeon mapping days was with the 1e AD&D super module The Temple of Elemental Evil.  I mapped that whole sucker out using graph paper and pencil.  I stopped after doing that one.  

If I were to do it today, I would do it the same way.  I would use graph paper and a pencil.  I would also have a little note book to write down notes about certain rooms, traps, doorways, etc.  I guess after doing it that way, then I would consider transferring that data to an electronic format to re-create the hand drawn map.

I don't have a straightforward answer for you, because it really depends on the system and the type of campaign.  If I'd answered this question 10+ years ago, I'd say graph paper and imagination.  Today, I take a few different approaches, listed in order of frequency:

1) Still using graph paper and narration.  I have a player, let's call him Mapper, that knows exactly what I'm talking about when I'm describing a room.  It's just a chemistry we've evolved over the years.  When we go this route, I employ what we both call the "Zork" method - relying a lot on cardinal directions and precise dimensions.  Funny-shaped rooms tend to be encounter rooms, which is when I get out a battle map.

2) Tiles.  My newer players like tiles and I admit it appeals to my line-of-sight and light source proclivities (i.e. failure to remember light rules).  However, I never invested serious money in them.  I have, at times, thrown down tiles from Descent, Advanced Heroquest and cardboard in the same session.  I've also used large mats from Basic D&D modules, MB Hero Quest, and whatever else I can find, covering up areas with paper or whatever.  As I mentioned in some other thread recently, I'm trying to convince myself to invest in good quality homemade tiles and then getting my girlfriend (a scrapbooker) to do the hard work.  Sadly, I just moved away from my group, so maybe that won't happen.  However, see 3)

3)  Out of the couple of free virtual game tables I tried, I like MapTool best.  It sounds sort of contradictory, but I feel like the vision rules in D&D can finally be realized using this technology.  There are a dozen reasons why I don't like the idea of running a game virtually, but for dungeon exploration, this is... well, fucking awesome.

I did this in less than 15 minutes.  Let me describe what's going on here.  I tossed on a map from Zelda-Link to the Past and then resized a grid to lay over the map properly-that way tokens move about properly.  The two PC's each have a light source; the actual light source and then a "dim" radius for modifiers or darkvision.  The screenshot was in DM view, but notice the extra dark stuff near the top.  That's "fog of war" .. the players wouldn't be able to see any of it because it is unexplored.  Finally, look to the northeast of the token that looks like Raistlin.. see that line blocking line-of-sight I stuck on the pedestal/tower thing?  That's "vision blocking."  Say there was a wolf behind it.  Even though they've explored that area, the player still wouldn't see the wolf token because it is behind "vision blocking."

3a) I still haven't run a game using this though.  But I intend to.  It would be a pain in the ass to try to run a sandbox game this way unless you prepped a bunch of maps and tokens ahead of time.  Still, not much worse than bringing the proper tiles and bits to your game.

3b) Using video game sprites as backgrounds in MapTool wasn't my idea.  But, wow, it's a nice departure from dreary dungeon maps.

Quote from: Drohem;367086Yes, I used to map as a player.  We also used to have a Party Caller as well.

The culmination of my dungeon mapping days was with the 1e AD&D super module The Temple of Elemental Evil.  I mapped that whole sucker out using graph paper and pencil.  I stopped after doing that one.  

If I were to do it today, I would do it the same way.  I would use graph paper and a pencil.  I would also have a little note book to write down notes about certain rooms, traps, doorways, etc.  I guess after doing it that way, then I would consider transferring that data to an electronic format to re-create the hand drawn map.

Jesus. Mapping out T1-4 as you play. That's insanely cool (though I understand how you might get mapper fatigue after a few months playing that one). So I imagine the DM's descriptions were fairly detailed, in terms of measurements, compass directions and so on?

Quote from: winkingbishop;3670891) Still using graph paper and narration.  I have a player, let's call him Mapper, that knows exactly what I'm talking about when I'm describing a room.  It's just a chemistry we've evolved over the years.  When we go this route, I employ what we both call the "Zork" method - relying a lot on cardinal directions and precise dimensions.  Funny-shaped rooms tend to be encounter rooms, which is when I get out a battle map.

Awesome. I wonder how many players of the game still use that method.

Quote from: winkingbishop;3670893)  Out of the couple of free virtual game tables I tried, I like MapTool best.  It sounds sort of contradictory, but I feel like the vision rules in D&D can finally be realized using this technology.

I feel I should qualify this statement.  Line of sight has never really been a big deal in any edition.  Light sources, on the other hand, I find a pain in the ass.  I'm sure there are very precise and talented DMs out there that have a grasp on lighting at all times.  But that was never me.  I'll be the first to admit that when the fighting starts, I rarely remember lighting except when concealment or backstabs came into play.  That's something this technology could help me with, surely.

Quote from: Benoist;367092Jesus. Mapping out T1-4 as you play. That's insanely cool (though I understand how you might get mapper fatigue after a few months playing that one). So I imagine the DM's descriptions were fairly detailed, in terms of measurements, compass directions and so on?

Yeah, we worked together.  I pestered him relentlessly with questions about distances and shapes, LOL.

Quote from: winkingbishop;3670893)  Out of the couple of free virtual game tables I tried, I like MapTool best.  It sounds sort of contradictory, but I feel like the vision rules in D&D can finally be realized using this technology.  There are a dozen reasons why I don't like the idea of running a game virtually, but for dungeon exploration, this is... well, fucking awesome.

I agree as well.  When we played face-to-face we used a battlemap, figures, and markers.  Now that we play online we use Skype+MapTool and the technology like fog of war, vision distances, and light sources really add an extra dimension that makes the game cool.

Quote from: Benoist;367084Dwarven Forge FTW.

I have a bunch of sets, and I love to use them. I should be aware of what the next course of action of the PCs should be before the game session, know that it'll be exploration mostly, or with one (or a bunch of) tactical set-pieces during the game, so that doesn't happen all the time. But when I get the occasion and feel like it, that's prop galore!

Yes Dwarven Forge FTW.

ALL HAIL DWARVEN FORGE.  CAST DOWN THE FALSE IDOLS!  DEATH TO FLAT MAPS!

I like being the mapper - geography degree with a methods emphasis, duh.

As referee, I don't like taking too long to describe the room. The best solution I found, before I discovered Dwarven Forge, that is, was to build the rooms and corridors with LEGO and let the players make their maps based on that representation. I'd build a mess of standard lengths - ten-foot wall, twenty-foot wall, and so on - then snap them onto the base plate as the party moved through the dungeon. Curves were something of a bitch, but otherwise it saved me from a lot of the haggling that goes on between the mapper and the referee. "Wait, wait, that was ten feet east of the door, then a curve with the apex twenty feet away . . . ?"

Speaking of LEGO, I've always wanted to do this:

http://gunth.com/brickquest/

Unfortunately, not enough LEGO.  And my niece is getting pretty close to the age where she'll probably get to play with them.

I did get do something similar once.  It was a coincidence that I was trying a fantasy GURPS game at the same time my brother and I had been building castles and such.. so I ran the session as an urban assault.  It was awesome, but not practical in the long term.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;367106Yes Dwarven Forge FTW.

ALL HAIL DWARVEN FORGE.  CAST DOWN THE FALSE IDOLS!  DEATH TO FLAT MAPS!

But .... but... it's bloody expensive! Even a good auction on British Ebay will have me shell out 70 pounds for just the most basic set...

In other news though, the latest release of WotC Dungeon Tiles ("Harrowing Halls" - Amazon is your friend) comes with 3D terrain which you 'construct' by putting the carton pieces together. See here:



It's a brilliant product idea, since people like myself have long yearned for an affordable alternative to Dwarvenforge. And let's face it, those tiles are damn cheap!