Quote from: ForgottenF on July 12, 2024, 08:55:33 PM

Quote from: SHARK on July 12, 2024, 08:46:07 PMI have serious doubts about the cherished male assumption that women are naturally good, sweet, non-violent and moral.

Does any man think that? Maybe it's a generational thing, but no male I've know between the ages of 14 and 45 would make that assumption 🤣

Only 1 problem with that statement. The "and 45" I am over 50 years old and LONG ago I learned (the hard way oh so many times) that is a very flawed assumption.

Now the sad part is that I have 2 mid teen daughters .... right now they are quiet, sheltered, naive even. I keep waiting for that evil bent twisted female mind they inherited from their mother (yes I do love her but I do also know she is NOT natural good sweet et al) to break through !

Quote from: is friday on July 12, 2024, 08:41:49 PMYou're absolutely right: It's not our business to tell you how to run your table. But it speaks volumes that you feel condescended to and threatened by queers so terribly that you had to make a topic about us.

That's what you got out of his post? Really? The victim mentality is real...

Quote from: ForgottenF on July 12, 2024, 08:55:33 PM

Quote from: SHARK on July 12, 2024, 08:46:07 PMI have serious doubts about the cherished male assumption that women are naturally good, sweet, non-violent and moral.

Does any man think that? Maybe it's a generational thing, but no male I've know between the ages of 14 and 45 would make that assumption 🤣

I've overheard some stuff I probably shouldn't have. Locker-room is tame as fuck compared to what women talk about.

To address the original point, "it depends". I ran a Star Wars game that had A LOT of romance, mainly the scoundrel PC getting involved with some twilek street urchin. It made total sense in the context of the game, so I just ran with it. I personally had a bard that married an elf princess who was an aspiring wizard because the PC thought he could exploit her abilities and wealth. A classic tale! But, again, it made sense within what the game was trying to do. Pushing this sort of crap is doomed to failure if it's a regular RPG. If the players want to pursue relationships, sure, whatever, I roll with it and do whatever seems logical, but I'd never force them into a situation that required playing out romantic nonsense. I also think the "fade to black" for bedroom stuff is the way to roll. I don't wanna talk about that crap as a DM, nor as a player, so just let the gaps fill in when my PC has a pregnant wife. Some people want to RP the sex part, and I'd honestly suggest they need help.

Quote from: is friday on July 12, 2024, 08:41:49 PMHey there! I'm the Project Lead for How To GM Romance. Some info about me:

    Married 15 years with a congenial split, 3 loving children.
    Currently in a happy 2-year long lesbian relationship with a woman so hot her DMs are blowing up every day for no reason.
    I've run over 900 professional tabletop games with 130+ 5-star reviews.
    I host a blog and podcast that is one of the most popular in the industry for both pro GMs and game designers.
    I've hosted several hundred pro GMs on workshops to improve their business techniques, including romance.
    I charge $150-300/hr for consulting and people routinely pay it, because the value is immense.


I would say I'm very qualified. But not only that - my team is assembled of the most skilled professionals in both the design and performance side of our industry. We have a lot to impart to the average person.

Just as our ad copy says on our Backer Kit campaign, not every relationship should be railroaded. This book is a toolbox for GMs to help enable the players they have at their table who are interested in that type of roleplay. This can be as subtle or overt as desired by all parties, with consent.

You're absolutely right: It's not our business to tell you how to run your table. But it speaks volumes that you feel condescended to and threatened by queers so terribly that you had to make a topic about us.

Welcome to The Site!

Quote from: ForgottenF on July 12, 2024, 08:55:33 PM

Quote from: SHARK on July 12, 2024, 08:46:07 PMI have serious doubts about the cherished male assumption that women are naturally good, sweet, non-violent and moral.

Does any man think that? Maybe it's a generational thing, but no male I've know between the ages of 14 and 45 would make that assumption 🤣

I did. When I was a young man. I bought into the "women are all innocent princesses" trope, and made excuses for bad female behavior. Which is in itself a kind of sexism, but as it favors women, I think it gets overlooked.

Quote from: Brad on July 12, 2024, 09:58:06 PM

Quote from: is friday on July 12, 2024, 08:41:49 PMYou're absolutely right: It's not our business to tell you how to run your table. But it speaks volumes that you feel condescended to and threatened by queers so terribly that you had to make a topic about us.

That's what you got out of his post? Really? The victim mentality is real...

Quote from: ForgottenF on July 12, 2024, 08:55:33 PM

Quote from: SHARK on July 12, 2024, 08:46:07 PMI have serious doubts about the cherished male assumption that women are naturally good, sweet, non-violent and moral.

Does any man think that? Maybe it's a generational thing, but no male I've know between the ages of 14 and 45 would make that assumption 🤣

I've overheard some stuff I probably shouldn't have. Locker-room is tame as fuck compared to what women talk about.

To address the original point, "it depends". I ran a Star Wars game that had A LOT of romance, mainly the scoundrel PC getting involved with some twilek street urchin. It made total sense in the context of the game, so I just ran with it. I personally had a bard that married an elf princess who was an aspiring wizard because the PC thought he could exploit her abilities and wealth. A classic tale! But, again, it made sense within what the game was trying to do. Pushing this sort of crap is doomed to failure if it's a regular RPG. If the players want to pursue relationships, sure, whatever, I roll with it and do whatever seems logical, but I'd never force them into a situation that required playing out romantic nonsense. I also think the "fade to black" for bedroom stuff is the way to roll. I don't wanna talk about that crap as a DM, nor as a player, so just let the gaps fill in when my PC has a pregnant wife. Some people want to RP the sex part, and I'd honestly suggest they need help.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Yeah, good stuff, Brad!

In my Thandor campaign with the women, I have this "Chaos Influence" Sub-system that I use, in addition to a grip of Urban events and Random tables. The women can play grab-ass and go shopping, and attend masquerade balls, and indulge their inner freaks just chomping to run wild--but only to a point. When they get too excessive with all the soap-opera and BS, and I and the other guys begin to get impatient--strange, Chaotic things start to happen. Fights and conflicts become increasingly violent and bloody, and more people start to die. The women have caught on to it gradually, and usually chirp, "We need to get back to the dungeon where it's safer!" *Laughing*

I turn the Urban Mayhem Dial up to 12, and dungeon-crawling starts to look mighty attractive again! *Laughing*

That is how I put my "DM Thumb" on the scale and keep the women's antics in check.

I seek to accommodate the women, to a point. Their focus and play-styles are distinctly different, but also overlapping, with what the men are typically interested in. On the more male-centric side of things, having the women players along is generally positive overall, as they do tend to roleplay very well, and well, they also tend towards taking the game and the fantasy world seriously. Initially, the men are sometimes skeptical, but over time, they also appreciate the approaches that women players bring to the game as a whole, and to my table in particular. Romance is a thing that women are intensely interested in--whether they are 16 or 50, Romance and drama are attractions that keep them rivetted. So, I have had to make allowances for more time for character development, backgrounds, family relationships, and all the drama and intrigue that goes along with romance and relationships. On a regular basis, I have had to spend a few hours indulging the women, letting them...be women, and do women things. If I didn't do this, I think that the women would become emotionally frustrated and angry. They would feel like they are just upright, walking animals, killing and eating. Or something. You know how they can get. *Laughing*

I also occasionally add in juvenile elements of candy, weird, cute animals, brightly coloured clothing and toys and just junk that women like to collect and play with. For example, I have created a number of weird magic items just for the women players. Talking stuffed animals, water-skins that sing songs, Horse-Head Hair Brushes that whisper beauty routines to the owner when brushing her hair, and so on. Mostly weird junk and toys. You would be surprised by how much the women *treasure* these kinds of items! The women also seem to have a huge desire for silliness, dancing, laughing, and just cavorting around in meadows, getting drunk and shrieking.

An interesting observation, is that 45 and 50 year old women are just as attracted to all of this as 16 or 20 year old girls are. *Laughing*

The men are far more focused on training their henchmen, researching upcoming dungeon legends, hiring map-makers, buying equipment for war, and exploring the wilderness in preparation for launching military attacks, or jumping into dungeon complexes, killing and looting!

The differences can be very real. *Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Lurker on July 12, 2024, 09:48:57 PM

Quote from: ForgottenF on July 12, 2024, 08:55:33 PM

Quote from: SHARK on July 12, 2024, 08:46:07 PMI have serious doubts about the cherished male assumption that women are naturally good, sweet, non-violent and moral.

Does any man think that? Maybe it's a generational thing, but no male I've know between the ages of 14 and 45 would make that assumption 🤣

Only 1 problem with that statement. The "and 45" I am over 50 years old and LONG ago I learned (the hard way oh so many times) that is a very flawed assumption.

Now the sad part is that I have 2 mid teen daughters .... right now they are quiet, sheltered, naive even. I keep waiting for that evil bent twisted female mind they inherited from their mother (yes I do love her but I do also know she is NOT natural good sweet et al) to break through !

Greetings!

PREACH IT! *Laughing*

Yeah, my friend, you know that's right!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on July 12, 2024, 10:40:32 PMOn the more male-centric side of things, having the women players along is generally positive overall, as they do tend to roleplay very well, and well, they also tend towards taking the game and the fantasy world seriously. Initially, the men are sometimes skeptical, but over time, they also appreciate the approaches that women players bring to the game as a whole, and to my table in particular.

That's been my experience as well. The few women I've gotten the chance to play with have frequently been some of the most dedicated roleplayers I've had in my games. If they've had a flaw, it's usually in getting a little too into it and taking things that happen in the game too personally, but I'll still seek out female players when I can for that reason. Sadly, they often clash with the more beer-and-pretzels or jokey sensibilities of my male players.

Quote from: SHARK on July 12, 2024, 10:40:32 PMIn my Thandor campaign with the women, I have this "Chaos Influence" Sub-system that I use, in addition to a grip of Urban events and Random tables. The women can play grab-ass and go shopping, and attend masquerade balls, and indulge their inner freaks just chomping to run wild--but only to a point. When they get too excessive with all the soap-opera and BS, and I and the other guys begin to get impatient--strange, Chaotic things start to happen. Fights and conflicts become increasingly violent and bloody, and more people start to die. The women have caught on to it gradually, and usually chirp, "We need to get back to the dungeon where it's safer!" *Laughing*

That's hilarious!

Back to the dungeon, where it's safer! (LOL)

Quote from: ForgottenF on July 12, 2024, 11:00:00 PM

Quote from: SHARK on July 12, 2024, 10:40:32 PMOn the more male-centric side of things, having the women players along is generally positive overall, as they do tend to roleplay very well, and well, they also tend towards taking the game and the fantasy world seriously. Initially, the men are sometimes skeptical, but over time, they also appreciate the approaches that women players bring to the game as a whole, and to my table in particular.

That's been my experience as well. The few women I've gotten the chance to play with have frequently been some of the most dedicated roleplayers I've had in my games. If they've had a flaw, it's usually in getting a little too into it and taking things that happen in the game too personally, but I'll still seek out female players when I can for that reason. Sadly, they often clash with the more beer-and-pretzels or jokey sensibilities of my male players.

Greetings!

Nice, ForgottenF! I totally agree. I know there is always some DM's out there that like to chirp about having a woman player that "plays just like the men do!" yah, yah, yah. Sure. In my experience though, there are typically very different approaches and play-styles between men and women.

And yes, women are very likely to really get into roleplaying their characters, and taking the game world very seriously. Typically, to a higher degree than most men players. And like you said, there can be some real challenges dealing with what I consider a woman player that is a serious roleplayer--and the often embraced jokey, "Beer and Pretzel" approach favoured by many men players.

I have had more than one occasion, where different women players at my table have been so overwhelmed with emotions with their characters and roleplaying, that they have broken down into serious crying, during episodes when a henchman has died, or a friend or lover. Ot when the player's pet baby dinosaur gets ran through with enemy spears and killed--oh man. I've had women screaming at me, *LOUD*. Then, the bloodlust really comes to the surface. Morality? The church? Forget all that. The women want their enemies crucified, slowly, while they watch and sip wine, enjoying every moment. Or I've had a friend of a woman player...become involved romantically with her character's lover, while they were studying ancient manuscripts at some Wizard's Tower, or in a Rusalka's Grotto. The emotions go absolutely crazy!

Poison, torture chambers, killing the enemy woman's family, oh yeah. All that gets placed on the table. I've seen them E-mail me their elaborate plans, tell me they were consumed while at work daydreaming about how their character needs to handle this upcoming event at the Baron's masquerade ball, and on and on. Yeah, they can get *deep* into every kind of detail and plan.

Good times, for sure!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Aglondir on July 12, 2024, 11:04:12 PM

Quote from: SHARK on July 12, 2024, 10:40:32 PMIn my Thandor campaign with the women, I have this "Chaos Influence" Sub-system that I use, in addition to a grip of Urban events and Random tables. The women can play grab-ass and go shopping, and attend masquerade balls, and indulge their inner freaks just chomping to run wild--but only to a point. When they get too excessive with all the soap-opera and BS, and I and the other guys begin to get impatient--strange, Chaotic things start to happen. Fights and conflicts become increasingly violent and bloody, and more people start to die. The women have caught on to it gradually, and usually chirp, "We need to get back to the dungeon where it's safer!" *Laughing*

That's hilarious!

Back to the dungeon, where it's safer! (LOL)

Greetings!

Aglondir! *Laughing* Thanks! Yeah, I know I laugh every time they pipe up with saying that! I have to reign them in though, you know?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Orphan81 on July 12, 2024, 12:42:40 PMSo I've been seeing this making the ad rounds on facebook.

"How to GM Romance" and the art for it is exactly what you would expect for present day progressive standards.

But it made me take a closer look at the 'staff' that's putting this all together and all I could think is... Have any of these people actually been in a longterm committed relationship? Are any of them married?

What business do people who know nothing about real world healthy relationships have trying to 'teach' the rest of us how to run 'romance' in our tabletop games?

Which brings me to my next point.

Do you put romance in your own tabletop games?

When I was younger I did... but these days, in my 40s, married and a child of my own... I'm not here to be anyone's pretend girlfriend/boyfriend. I don't make it impossible but it's always going to be a minor part of my games with fade to black with most everything.

As DM, I would go straight to the Harlot Table; in the AD&D 1E DMG. 

Quote from: is friday on July 12, 2024, 08:41:49 PM

Quote from: Orphan81 on July 12, 2024, 12:42:40 PMSo I've been seeing this making the ad rounds on facebook.

"How to GM Romance" and the art for it is exactly what you would expect for present day progressive standards.

But it made me take a closer look at the 'staff' that's putting this all together and all I could think is... Have any of these people actually been in a longterm committed relationship? Are any of them married?

What business do people who know nothing about real world healthy relationships have trying to 'teach' the rest of us how to run 'romance' in our tabletop games?

Which brings me to my next point.

Do you put romance in your own tabletop games?

When I was younger I did... but these days, in my 40s, married and a child of my own... I'm not here to be anyone's pretend girlfriend/boyfriend. I don't make it impossible but it's always going to be a minor part of my games with fade to black with most everything.

Hey there! I'm the Project Lead for How To GM Romance. Some info about me:

• Married 15 years with a congenial split, 3 loving children.
• Currently in a happy 2-year long lesbian relationship with a woman so hot her DMs are blowing up every day for no reason.
• I've run over 900 professional tabletop games with 130+ 5-star reviews.
• I host a blog and podcast that is one of the most popular in the industry for both pro GMs and game designers.
• I've hosted several hundred pro GMs on workshops to improve their business techniques, including romance.
• I charge $150-300/hr for consulting and people routinely pay it, because the value is immense.

I would say I'm very qualified. But not only that - my team is assembled of the most skilled professionals in both the design and performance side of our industry. We have a lot to impart to the average person.

Just as our ad copy says on our Backer Kit campaign, not every relationship should be railroaded. This book is a toolbox for GMs to help enable the players they have at their table who are interested in that type of roleplay. This can be as subtle or overt as desired by all parties, with consent.

You're absolutely right: It's not our business to tell you how to run your table. But it speaks volumes that you feel condescended to and threatened by queers so terribly that you had to make a topic about us.

Perhaps it's more, your book seems aimed directly at portraying *QUEER* romance more than anything.

Which, there's absolutely nothing wrong with. I have homosexual members of my own direct family. That being said, your book says how to GM 'romance' and when visiting the backerit page for it, it seems to scream "No CisHet allowed!"

So it doesn't seem like a book that would be useful to about... 97% of the actual player base.

I think you're going to end up funded. You're a little more than halfway to your goal, but I just want to point out by contrast... The Waifu RPG (With Stats for 5e and Pathfinder) was funded in 33 minutes and ended up just shy of 160k.

Now the Waifu RPG is most definitely fully CisHet in it's presentation, and made by a Husband and Wife team..

But I'd like to think we can have a happy medium somewhere... where we could have a Romance book that does seem like it's for everyone and not just slanted towards one specific cultural base.

Quote from: is friday on July 12, 2024, 08:41:49 PM

Quote from: Orphan81 on July 12, 2024, 12:42:40 PMSo I've been seeing this making the ad rounds on facebook.

"How to GM Romance" and the art for it is exactly what you would expect for present day progressive standards.

But it made me take a closer look at the 'staff' that's putting this all together and all I could think is... Have any of these people actually been in a longterm committed relationship? Are any of them married?

What business do people who know nothing about real world healthy relationships have trying to 'teach' the rest of us how to run 'romance' in our tabletop games?

Which brings me to my next point.

Do you put romance in your own tabletop games?

When I was younger I did... but these days, in my 40s, married and a child of my own... I'm not here to be anyone's pretend girlfriend/boyfriend. I don't make it impossible but it's always going to be a minor part of my games with fade to black with most everything.

Hey there! I'm the Project Lead for How To GM Romance. Some info about me:

• Married 15 years with a congenial split, 3 loving children.
• Currently in a happy 2-year long lesbian relationship with a woman so hot her DMs are blowing up every day for no reason.
• I've run over 900 professional tabletop games with 130+ 5-star reviews.
• I host a blog and podcast that is one of the most popular in the industry for both pro GMs and game designers.
• I've hosted several hundred pro GMs on workshops to improve their business techniques, including romance.
• I charge $150-300/hr for consulting and people routinely pay it, because the value is immense.

I would say I'm very qualified. But not only that - my team is assembled of the most skilled professionals in both the design and performance side of our industry. We have a lot to impart to the average person.

Just as our ad copy says on our Backer Kit campaign, not every relationship should be railroaded. This book is a toolbox for GMs to help enable the players they have at their table who are interested in that type of roleplay. This can be as subtle or overt as desired by all parties, with consent.

You're absolutely right: It's not our business to tell you how to run your table. But it speaks volumes that you feel condescended to and threatened by queers so terribly that you had to make a topic about us.

Is Friday, your response seems overly defensive.

EDIT: Never mind. I found out what I needed to know. Not what I would use as a source for advice.

Wow.

900 games ran with over 100 5-star reviews?

So first of all, everybody in here needs to bow down to the great excellence of this MF. The credentials make him/her/them a superstar Gamemaster that you aren't qualified to question.

Just STFU and take the free Pretend Sex advice, will you?

Quote from: Orphan81 on July 13, 2024, 10:52:57 AMPerhaps it's more, your book seems aimed directly at portraying *QUEER* romance more than anything.

Which, there's absolutely nothing wrong with. I have homosexual members of my own direct family. That being said, your book says how to GM 'romance' and when visiting the backerit page for it, it seems to scream "No CisHet allowed!"

So it doesn't seem like a book that would be useful to about... 97% of the actual player base.

This would be a question for Friday, but I don't see anything in the Backerkit text that says it is for queer romance. Many of the writers identify as queer, but I don't think that prevents them from writing a book that covers both non-queer and queer romance -- especially if the writers have experienced both non-queer and queer relationships, as Friday says she has.

As for the usefulness -- I'm not queer, but I've had LGBT and queer players, and I've GMed and played in queer romance subplots. I know that some people will only play their own identities as PCs -- but in my experience many if not most players are willing to venture outside that. I've had lesbian players playing straight PCs, and I've played gay and lesbian (as well as straight) PCs.

I've had infrequent romance plots in my games, with the plots being prominent in a few campaigns. I'm recently remarried, but I've never seen that as a problem for role-playing romance. Role-playing a romance isn't cheating. In my experience, it's less intimate than acting out a romance in a play. It helps that my ex-wife was a role-player, and my new wife has been a semi-professional actress.

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 13, 2024, 12:31:23 PMIs Friday, your response seems overly defensive. Could you give us your real name so that we could verify your claims of 5+ Star reviews and over 900 professional games ran? I'm also interested in your workshops and consulting on RPGs.

I'd presume that this is Friday Strout, since she is credited as lead on the Backerkit project page, and "IsFriday" is her online handle. When I check her profile on StartPlaying,

https://startplaying.games/gm/isfriday

She's listed as having 923 games hosted with a 5.0 rating.