So I've been seeing this making the ad rounds on facebook.

"How to GM Romance" and the art for it is exactly what you would expect for present day progressive standards.

But it made me take a closer look at the 'staff' that's putting this all together and all I could think is... Have any of these people actually been in a longterm committed relationship? Are any of them married?

What business do people who know nothing about real world healthy relationships have trying to 'teach' the rest of us how to run 'romance' in our tabletop games?

Which brings me to my next point.

Do you put romance in your own tabletop games?

When I was younger I did... but these days, in my 40s, married and a child of my own... I'm not here to be anyone's pretend girlfriend/boyfriend. I don't make it impossible but it's always going to be a minor part of my games with fade to black with most everything.

Our awesome Traveller GM asks us how much romance we want.

One character has a slow-burn romance with an NPC, who is a major part of that character's story.

My character was propositioned by an NPC. Our resident raised-on-a-deserted-asteroid Zhodani suggested the character procreate with the female, to get in her good favor for plot reasons. My character replied, and it became famous in our group, "I will not procreate with that female."

Everyone thought it was because my wife is in the group. I told them no, that's just this character. My backup character (heavy metal bagpipe player turned Space Marine, who is totally-not-based-on-Elvis) would have jumped on the opportunity. Literally.

No romance in my games.  It's just that the in game experience is so inferior to the real life experience that there's no real point.  I imagine other issues might arise as well, including too much focus on one player and making the other players uncomfortable

I'll include romance as a sub-plot (sub-game?) if a player wants it and doesn't mind me roleplaying the romantic NPC.

The only time I was concerned it would be weird was with a player who had a female elven archer in game romancing an elven hedge wizard while in real life she was a 5' skinny tomboyish lesbian and I'm a 6'2" overweight straight neck beard - everything went OK though. Any time a sexual scene would logically happen, we just "faded to black".

I use romance between NPCs quite frequently for depth and generating conflicts. Romance involving PCs is something I'd like to see work, but the people I play with are usually against it, and the results tend range between disastrous and just cringe.

I think this is because more than any other topic, when romance comes up roleplaying goes out the window.

Romances between PCs tend to be driven by out character relationships, and when they aren't players feel the need to script them in advance, and then play them out according to trite Hollywood (or in extreme cases porno) stereotypes.

Romance between NPCs and PCs tends to be less awful, but even then it's too often driven by the player's ego or wish fulfillment.

I think it only works if it grows organically out of people just roleplaying their characters.

I can totally see it working as, say, Arthurian Romance. As in, you don't go into the details of the relationships, but the knights do want to save damsels in distress and in some cases marry them.

There's been very few cases, always player initiated, where someone has "romanced" an NPC in my 40+ years of gaming.  I've never had intra-party romances.  Quite frankly, I don't see the point.

Quote from: Orphan81 on July 12, 2024, 12:42:40 PMSo I've been seeing this making the ad rounds on facebook.

"How to GM Romance" and the art for it is exactly what you would expect for present day progressive standards.

But it made me take a closer look at the 'staff' that's putting this all together and all I could think is... Have any of these people actually been in a longterm committed relationship? Are any of them married?

What business do people who know nothing about real world healthy relationships have trying to 'teach' the rest of us how to run 'romance' in our tabletop games?

Which brings me to my next point.

Do you put romance in your own tabletop games?

When I was younger I did... but these days, in my 40s, married and a child of my own... I'm not here to be anyone's pretend girlfriend/boyfriend. I don't make it impossible but it's always going to be a minor part of my games with fade to black with most everything.

Not as something interactive between player characters and NPCS or between PCs.

I do occasionally put romance in as a part of an adventure. As the motivation for an NPC. An old TNG episode I often think about is The Outrageous Okona. About a scoundrel who (spoilers for an old TNG episode) acts as courier for two young lovers from feuding planets/factions. It's a janky episode, like a lot of early TNG, but the general setup is (IMO) a great template for how a romance can generate a scenario full of adventure hooks.

In my current game I'm having fun with flirty conversation and a romantic triangle with some comedy (one of the PCs has a tail with a mind of its own.)  Will it ever get to fade to black time?  Not sure if any of the characters want to go there yet.

[edit for typo]

Quote from: Eirikrautha on July 12, 2024, 04:25:33 PMThere's been very few cases, always player initiated, where someone has "romanced" an NPC in my 40+ years of gaming.  I've never had intra-party romances.  Quite frankly, I don't see the point.

Greetings!

My friend, I forgot what "Intra" means. So, what is an "Intra-Party Romance?"

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I have had a rare few players want it and in my younger years as a player delved into it. But it has this tendency of going awry and not in a story way or a good way. So now-a-days I tend to be neutral on it.
 
I will give it a go if a pitch really interests me. But more oft than not its just not worth it.

Intra just means inside or within a group or collection.  So, PC to PC romance.

Quote from: Orphan81 on July 12, 2024, 12:42:40 PMSo I've been seeing this making the ad rounds on facebook.

"How to GM Romance" and the art for it is exactly what you would expect for present day progressive standards.

But it made me take a closer look at the 'staff' that's putting this all together and all I could think is... Have any of these people actually been in a longterm committed relationship? Are any of them married?

What business do people who know nothing about real world healthy relationships have trying to 'teach' the rest of us how to run 'romance' in our tabletop games?

Which brings me to my next point.

Do you put romance in your own tabletop games?

When I was younger I did... but these days, in my 40s, married and a child of my own... I'm not here to be anyone's pretend girlfriend/boyfriend. I don't make it impossible but it's always going to be a minor part of my games with fade to black with most everything.

Hey there! I'm the Project Lead for How To GM Romance. Some info about me:

• Married 15 years with a congenial split, 3 loving children.
• Currently in a happy 2-year long lesbian relationship with a woman so hot her DMs are blowing up every day for no reason.
• I've run over 900 professional tabletop games with 130+ 5-star reviews.
• I host a blog and podcast that is one of the most popular in the industry for both pro GMs and game designers.
• I've hosted several hundred pro GMs on workshops to improve their business techniques, including romance.
• I charge $150-300/hr for consulting and people routinely pay it, because the value is immense.

I would say I'm very qualified. But not only that - my team is assembled of the most skilled professionals in both the design and performance side of our industry. We have a lot to impart to the average person.

Just as our ad copy says on our Backer Kit campaign, not every relationship should be railroaded. This book is a toolbox for GMs to help enable the players they have at their table who are interested in that type of roleplay. This can be as subtle or overt as desired by all parties, with consent.

You're absolutely right: It's not our business to tell you how to run your table. But it speaks volumes that you feel condescended to and threatened by queers so terribly that you had to make a topic about us.

Quote from: zircher on July 12, 2024, 08:20:09 PMIntra just means inside or within a group or collection.  So, PC to PC romance.

Greetings!

Thank you, Zircher!

Yeah, as for *Romance in the game*--in one of my game groups, I have four women players, and two men players. The women really do push for lots of *Romance* in the game. I try and keep a balancing act going with blood and fighting--but in this particular game group, yeah, the guys have to endure extra-long sessions of the women going shopping, going to masquerade balls, and getting their freak on with various lover boys. The women just love the whole romantic relationship soap-opera thing. The *Storytelling*, the friendships, the romance, the crazy sex, the betrayals, the fucked up enemies, the secrets, the backstabbing, the rumour mongering, character assassination, getting pregnant, drama with the parents and family--the women absolutely love a steady diet of this stuff, each and every week. The women's passion and excitement for this kind of thing is endless.

I have serious doubts about the cherished male assumption that women are naturally good, sweet, non-violent and moral. *Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on July 12, 2024, 08:46:07 PMI have serious doubts about the cherished male assumption that women are naturally good, sweet, non-violent and moral.

Does any man think that? Maybe it's a generational thing, but no male I've know between the ages of 14 and 45 would make that assumption 🤣