Alright, I admit the title is clickbait. Bear with me, though. Stars Without Number is great. But honestly, having delved into the more traditional OSR games, I am starting to face some frustration. Right now, Basic Fantasy RPG is where I am most comfortable. And two things I don't miss from mainstream modern games are a dedicated skills system, and a dedicated feat system. Now that I appreciate how OSR games are actually supposed to be played, I increasingly find they just get in my way and slow everything down. No offense intended if you like these systems; I used to like them. In any case, has anyone tried ripping out skills and Foci from SWN? If this were to be done, what is the minimum number if levers that would need to be pulled to unbreak (or unbrake 😁) the system?

Look at StellaGamma's Quantum games, like Barbaric! 2E. No random chargen. A handful of skills, but no abilities. It's simple and works well. Some won't care for the missing 6 abilities scores.

I forgot Stars Without Number is a d20/OSR. I saw complicated rules, too many skills, and of course thought Traveller.

Alternatively, if you want to stick with d20 and six attributes, I'd just look at Star Adventurer. Not sure I see the point of playing Star Without Number while removing most of the skills and related stuff.

So I think the best answer to what you're looking for is actually Cepheus Engine De-lux by Stellagamma.  It's a slightly reduced version of Cepheus Engine while being fully compatible with most other Cepheus supplements.  It's also very versatile and you can add to it without breaking it.

It's a Stat + Skills system where PC development is improving your skills.  If you wanted to add feats, there's a few ways to do that smoothly.  This should accommodate everything you've expressed here.

I'm a big fan of scifi games and honestly Cepheus Engine is the best I've found.     

You may want to look at my Majestic Fantasy Basic Rule here, it has a skill system that should work quite well with Basic Fantasy. I been using it my own campaigns for over a decade.

https://www.batintheattic.com/downloads/MW%20Majestic%20Fantasy%20Basic%20RPG%20Rev%2009.pdf

If you like it then you may want to take a look at the published version which cleaned up.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/337515/The-Majestic-Fantasy-RPG-Basic-Rules

You can fix Stars Without Number by playing either Cepheus Engine or Traveller.

Quote from: RulesLiteOSRpls on November 20, 2023, 09:41:35 AM
Alright, I admit the title is clickbait. Bear with me, though. Stars Without Number is great. But honestly, having delved into the more traditional OSR games, I am starting to face some frustration. Right now, Basic Fantasy RPG is where I am most comfortable. And two things I don't miss from mainstream modern games are a dedicated skills system, and a dedicated feat system. Now that I appreciate how OSR games are actually supposed to be played, I increasingly find they just get in my way and slow everything down. No offense intended if you like these systems; I used to like them. In any case, has anyone tried ripping out skills and Foci from SWN? If this were to be done, what is the minimum number if levers that would need to be pulled to unbreak (or unbrake 😁) the system?

Just drop the universal skills and make them Class-based skills or abilities. Pretty simple. Certain skill being only available to certain classes. With class-based you can embrace the Proficiency bonus as it makes each class more distinct in regard to power balance.  Not that there's any real balance in rpgs because there isn't. But you can get close enough to shut the powergamers up.

Everybody recomending either a different game or how to add skills to Basic Fantasy when the OP want's to EXCISE Skills and Foci from SWN.

I honestly never ran SWN, WWN or CWN, but I don't think the game will break if you cut those out. Now, someone with experience on those might chime in and correct me if I'm wrong, if you're lucky maybe Kevin Crawford himself will drop by to give his two cents.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 20, 2023, 03:20:48 PM
Everybody recomending either a different game or how to add skills to Basic Fantasy when the OP want's to EXCISE Skills and Foci from SWN.

I honestly never ran SWN, WWN or CWN, but I don't think the game will break if you cut those out. Now, someone with experience on those might chime in and correct me if I'm wrong, if you're lucky maybe Kevin Crawford himself will drop by to give his two cents.

Ah, damn, I miss understood.  OP if this is correct then your answer is ICRPG.  You don't need to completely jump systems, just take the parts from ICRPG that work for you and graft them onto SWN.  As they are both based in D&D, it's not much work.

Quote from: BadApple on November 20, 2023, 03:34:05 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 20, 2023, 03:20:48 PM
Everybody recomending either a different game or how to add skills to Basic Fantasy when the OP want's to EXCISE Skills and Foci from SWN.

I honestly never ran SWN, WWN or CWN, but I don't think the game will break if you cut those out. Now, someone with experience on those might chime in and correct me if I'm wrong, if you're lucky maybe Kevin Crawford himself will drop by to give his two cents.

Ah, damn, I miss understood.  OP if this is correct then your answer is ICRPG.  You don't need to completely jump systems, just take the parts from ICRPG that work for you and graft them onto SWN.  As they are both based in D&D, it's not much work.

OP wasn't 100% clear. I saw references to too many rules and too complex rules. And complex skill structures. (And whatever the foci was.) So I recommended a simpler 2d6 system that seemed to cover the differences requested.

Use SWN1E and drop the skills.

Just remembered that SWN1E is desc AC, but Basic Fantasy is asc AC. Which may be a problem, or may not.

Quote from: Aglondir on November 20, 2023, 06:07:18 PM
Use SWN1E and drop the skills.

I was going to suggest using SWN 1E as well. The skill system is 2D6, and is pretty basic. But if you rip it out, you lose the Expert class. At that point, play a Cepheus game like others have suggested.

Quote from: BadApple on November 20, 2023, 03:34:05 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 20, 2023, 03:20:48 PM
Everybody recomending either a different game or how to add skills to Basic Fantasy when the OP want's to EXCISE Skills and Foci from SWN.

I honestly never ran SWN, WWN or CWN, but I don't think the game will break if you cut those out. Now, someone with experience on those might chime in and correct me if I'm wrong, if you're lucky maybe Kevin Crawford himself will drop by to give his two cents.

Ah, damn, I miss understood.  OP if this is correct then your answer is ICRPG.  You don't need to completely jump systems, just take the parts from ICRPG that work for you and graft them onto SWN.  As they are both based in D&D, it's not much work.

I just had a thought. Is Stars Without Number a d20 or a 2d6 system? I own it. I've read it but never played. And I have a horrible memory. LOL Go me!

Edit to Answer: d20 with 6 attributes.

I'd try Star Adventurer if you want a d20/6-attribute system. Stellagamma Cepheus Light or Cepheus Quantum for lighter and lightest 2d6 systems.

I appreciate the attempts. I appear to have been woefully vague. The goal is specifically to avoid skill lists, in addition to feats/foci. That is, I want to actually take advantage of the fact that OSR games are class and level based, and use the basic system to its core strengths. I respect Traveller, and its derivatives. I have a copy of the Fascimile edition of CT on my shelf now. But I increasingly find skill lists unnecessarily limiting for the way I like to run and play games. Again, thanks for the help. Also, GeekyBugle and Theory of Games get bonus points.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 20, 2023, 03:20:48 PM
Everybody recomending either a different game or how to add skills to Basic Fantasy when the OP want's to EXCISE Skills and Foci from SWN.

I honestly never ran SWN, WWN or CWN, but I don't think the game will break if you cut those out. Now, someone with experience on those might chime in and correct me if I'm wrong, if you're lucky maybe Kevin Crawford himself will drop by to give his two cents.

That would be awesome if the good Cardinal did. I know the sales pitch is partially being B/X-derived. Trying to make it more B/X-like doesn't seem out of the spirit of the game completely.