So lets say you have someone in your gaming group that's a good roleplayer, quite good, gets highlited as "best roleplayer of the night" on a regular basis. No unfortunate personal habits that would affect his place in the group or anything.

But his one serious problem is this: he constantly CONSTANTLY has to play against type for the genre of the setting, doesn't matter which it is.

In a game where you're supposed to play white-hat heros, he'd want to play the one that turns villain; in the Star Wars game, he'd want to be the Jedi who goes rogue; in a superhero game he'd want to be the one with out any superpowers; in the game about valiant warriors he'd want to play the coward; in the historical game about ancient China, he'd want to play a Roman.

His characters aren't even necessarily "Lone wolves" (that's a whole other complex), but they always have to be something outside (or at least pushing) the limits of what you would normally be supposed to or allowed to play in the given game/campaign.

How does one deal with that?

RPGPundit

Not all of your examples sound like they're complete game breakers, so those can be embraced as plot devices (the Roman in China). The more serious issue would be that, game breaker or not, this shtick gets very old very soon. Only you, who knows the guy personally, can say whether he can be persuaded to dare to be normal.

I had a friend like this. He played Githyankis a lot in D&D.

I usually either preempted him ("under no circumstaince willI allow any concepts but these in this campaign!") or watched him carefullly during chargen and keep giving him subtle hints and nudgesto get him in the right direction.

His deal was that he got completely hooked on awesome ideas. If I could manage to come up with awesome ideas (or make him think he came up with awesome ideas that I in reality led him to) that fell in line with the concept I had in mind, he usually cooperated right away with a huge smile on his face.

Players want Awesome. Give them Awesome, and they will give you Awesome in return.
Thats my motto anyway.

Does it interfere with the games? If so, how?

I ran a demo of D6 Space at a games store one time.  My scenario was an "Alien Legion"-inspired game of star-patrolmen, effectively, rough-and-tumble star-faring marshalls.  

One guy showed up to play and declared his character was a wolf-like humanoid from a primitive world.  He had no idea what a blaster was for, he just had a sword.

He was that wolf guy from "Inuyasha".

So I took him aside from the other players.  I said, "Look, dude.  If a caveman got unfrozen today, would you hand him a badge and put him in the FBI?"

He shook his head.  That being cleared, it was back tothe table.

A hot shot of common sense!  The truth, bare and simple.  Right there, right in front.  

Take the guy aside, Pundito.  Tell him, "Look, what you're doing isn't what we're after.  You're Han Solo on Lidsville. Everyone says you're a great role-player, now -- role-play well."

Quote from: RPGPunditSo lets say you have someone in your gaming group that's a good roleplayer, quite good, gets highlited as "best roleplayer of the night" on a regular basis. No unfortunate personal habits that would affect his place in the group or anything.

But his one serious problem is this: he constantly CONSTANTLY has to play against type for the genre of the setting, doesn't matter which it is.

...

How does one deal with that?

RPGPundit

What comes to mind for me is that this says a great deal about this player's personality (not that I know *what* it says, but I'd be willing to bet it is significant to him/her), as the types of Characters people tend to want to play are often deeply representative of *some* aspect of their inner sense-of-self.   Perhaps your RPG represents an opportunity to offer this person (and each person in the group) a means by which they may explore their inner self.   Perhaps he is "resolving" something from his past, or representing some hope he has for the future.  

From a game mechanic point of view it does not sound like you are saying that you can not accomodate the 'odd' character, but rather that you are annoyed by this behavior.  Could you not instead work with it somehow?  Or is this destuctive to the game and you'd like the person to get with the program because it is necessary?

Quote from: James McMurrayDoes it interfere with the games? If so, how?

It interferes in a certain way because it serves as a kind of guaranteed necessity for giving that character more attention.  If you're in a superhero game, and he's not playing a superhero game, then you have to have a reason why he's there.

My answer to this is to tell him very clearly (when he was making his character) that I would not be doing this for him, and if he wants to be an "intrepid boy reporter" he'd better be very intrepid in getting into whatever is going on in the game, or he'll be bored a lot of the time.

I think that's the problem: Players who pull this shit do it as a way to try to "force" the GM to give him a lot of attention, but that only happens if the GM is willing to create new and special subplots just for the guy who doesn't fit in with what everyone else is doing.  This is unfair to the rest of the players.

RPGPundit

Quote from: VBWyrdeWhat comes to mind for me is that this says a great deal about this player's personality (not that I know *what* it says, but I'd be willing to bet it is significant to him/her), as the types of Characters people tend to want to play are often deeply representative of *some* aspect of their inner sense-of-self.   Perhaps your RPG represents an opportunity to offer this person (and each person in the group) a means by which they may explore their inner self.   Perhaps he is "resolving" something from his past, or representing some hope he has for the future.  

I don't totally buy your psychological mumbo-jumbo; but i do think there's a point in trying to see why he's making these characters. But I'm not nearly as willing to be generous to him.  To me the Motive is simple: He's scared that if he makes characters that fit in with the campaign's structure, then he'll either:

1. Not be able to make that character interesting enough on its own virtues, hence he plays a "weirdo".

or

2. Be ignored by the GM if he plays a regular character; but this player in particular should know better with me as a GM.

So to me in this particular case its clearly case number 1.

QuoteFrom a game mechanic point of view it does not sound like you are saying that you can not accomodate the 'odd' character, but rather that you are annoyed by this behavior.  Could you not instead work with it somehow?  Or is this destuctive to the game and you'd like the person to get with the program because it is necessary?

If I thought I couldn't accomodate it, I wouldn't have allowed him to play it.

However, the problem is actually with the rest of my players: several of them have complained about his non-fitting-in characters, and the fact that he insists on doing this in EVERY SINGLE GAME I run.

RPGPundit

since it seems to be interfering with everyone else's fun, you've got to take him aside and set him straight.  next character, no weirdo.  period.

If it's really causing a problem I kick him out. Otherwise I just let the players do whatever they like.

Looks like the "get yourself into situations" bit worked from one angle but not another, since the other players still complained afterwords. I'd say that if everyone has a problem with it, then everyone should be part of the solution, that way it's not just you coming down on him. It'll also be a good gauge of how much they really dislike it. If they're saying it's really a problem but aren't willing to be a part of the solution, it's not as much of a problem as they think.

This assumes that your group isn't one of those where the GM also signs on for being social coordinator and mediator. In either case though, telling him that playing the oddball is interfering with everyone else's enjoyment is a necessity. Preferably with everyone that feels that way present and nodding their heads.

It can be a problem if the character "imports" a certain knowledge from outside the campaign setting. You know, like trying to teach Roman tactics to Chinese barbarians.

Quote from: RPGPunditSo lets say you have someone in your gaming group that's a good roleplayer, quite good, gets highlited as "best roleplayer of the night" on a regular basis. No unfortunate personal habits that would affect his place in the group or anything.

But his one serious problem is this: he constantly CONSTANTLY has to play against type for the genre of the setting, doesn't matter which it is.

In a game where you're supposed to play white-hat heros, he'd want to play the one that turns villain; in the Star Wars game, he'd want to be the Jedi who goes rogue; in a superhero game he'd want to be the one with out any superpowers; in the game about valiant warriors he'd want to play the coward; in the historical game about ancient China, he'd want to play a Roman.

His characters aren't even necessarily "Lone wolves" (that's a whole other complex), but they always have to be something outside (or at least pushing) the limits of what you would normally be supposed to or allowed to play in the given game/campaign.

How does one deal with that?

RPGPundit

I hate to admit it, but I'm this guy in some cases, but I know what I'm doing and why I'm doing it.  I've run games for so long that I get bored playing a single character each night (as opposed to the broad range of NPC characters I can roleplay as a GM).  Injecting my character with an eccentric personality makes playing him a bit more interesting to me.  I don't think I've gone so far as to be disruptive (no one has complained about me that I know of) and I wouldn't do something as extreme as play a Roman in a Chinese game, but I do look to push the boundaries as far as I can.  If people were unhappy enough to complain about it I would have no problem at all making another character that jives better with the group.  I game to have fun, but not at the expense of everyone else.  

So, it seems like the obvious answer (which I'm sure you've either done or thought of) is to just ask him why he feels he has to go against the grain.  It sounds like he's not purposely trying to be an ass, but if it's a pattern there must be a reason, and he may not realize others are getting annoyed.  

Pete

I usually try to steer them towards something that fits. Take your Roman in China...it's not out of the question. What I really dislike is players who intentionally muck up the game completely and don't want to work on making their character fit in.

Quote from: RPGPunditSo lets say you have someone in your gaming group that's a good roleplayer, quite good, gets highlited as "best roleplayer of the night" on a regular basis. No unfortunate personal habits that would affect his place in the group or anything.

But his one serious problem is this: he constantly CONSTANTLY has to play against type for the genre of the setting, doesn't matter which it is.

In a game where you're supposed to play white-hat heros, he'd want to play the one that turns villain; in the Star Wars game, he'd want to be the Jedi who goes rogue; in a superhero game he'd want to be the one with out any superpowers; in the game about valiant warriors he'd want to play the coward; in the historical game about ancient China, he'd want to play a Roman.

His characters aren't even necessarily "Lone wolves" (that's a whole other complex), but they always have to be something outside (or at least pushing) the limits of what you would normally be supposed to or allowed to play in the given game/campaign.

How does one deal with that?

RPGPundit

First of all, does he do this just to irritate you? That'd be the most important question to answer, especially if this is just some kind of passive-aggressive resistance to you.

If it isn't done just to be annoying, then see if you can incorporate his antics into the campaign. Ask him if he'd like to be the one who becomes the main villain in the game - and then work with him to ensure that this can be done in a manner that doesn't destroy the camapign theme. If he doesn't want to be the villain, see if he wants to become the major plot complication of the campaign. Throughout all of this, while trying to use his character contrarianism to the game session's advantage, don't forget about the other players who need some attention as well.

Mainly, I'm just suggesting that you subvert the paradigm the player uses to your own ends. Don't view his antics as a bug, but a feature to be used.