Greetings to all...

We've got a thread about bad players conduct, but what about bad GM conduct? -- I think I can safely speak for everyone when I say that there are some people out there who are simply not qualified to run a RPG.

I've had the honor of learning from some really excellent GM's over the past 25 years, but I've also had the misfortune of being in the games of some real classless dickheads.

So what sorts of bad GM experiences have you had?

Here are some of mine:

- The Direction Enforcer

This GM is the guy that gives you multiple ways to go, but will only let you go the direction he/she wants. This is usually because he/she hasn't created the rest of the map or hasn't given any thought to anything but their version of their preconcieved story.

For example:

GM: "The hallway branches to the left and right. Directly in front of you is an open elevator."

PCs: "We go to the left."

GM: "A huge fire suddenly springs up, blocking your way. You can't put it out."

PCs: "We go to the right corridor."

GM: "A bunch of 3' thick metal doors drop out of the ceiling and seal off the hallways."

PCs: "Fine. We get in the fucking elevator...."

- The Player Controler

A variation on the first example, this is the GM who tells you what you choose to do (or what you think) as a coercive means of advancing the plot. Again, this is usually because the GM hasn't thought ahead and/or simlpy lacks sufficient creativity to run the game beyond a very bare-bones level.

Example: The party has encountered a mysterious old man in the ruins of a dead city. The person suggests that the PCs follow them. The GM suddenly breaks in: "You all decide that he's trustworthy and you follow him."

Or: The party is walking through the woods when they hear a strange noise off to the east. Before they can react, the GM breaks in: "You all think you should investigate the noise."

Personally, I think taking control of the players like this is one of the worst crimes a GM can commit. It defeats the point of everything.

- Princess of Power

Only had this happen to me once, but I've heard other people bitch about it: the GM requests some sort of special treatment and/or the granting of favors out of game because they are the GM.

The GM asks players to bring him stuff from the fridge because "I'm GM and I don't want to get up" or some BS like that.

Here's what happened to me personally:

I'm playing in the game of some randoms I met at the RPG store.  During a break, we all took a short walk to a store to get snacks and such. The GM loudly asks, "Who wants to buy a Red Bull for the GM? Might make a difference when we start playing again...!" He tried to act like he was kidding about it, but I later found out he wasn't and did that all the time - getting the others to buy all his stuff. The other players hadn't played very much & got the idea that this was 'normal' and even a right of the GM.

The reaction I had upon learning this is perhaps better imagined that described.

- The Distracted Dipshit

Like everyone else, my life is pretty busy and it's not always easy to find a time to play when everyone can meet. So when we do get togather, I want to play; that is what I'm there for.

But you get one of these people and they want to show you a bunch of crap on their computer first, rant on about something irrelevent (eg. their neighbor), or show you newest book they got and tell you why it's better than sex.Thus, you spend anywhere from 20-60 minutes on non-game related stuff before anybody even pulls out their character.

Endlessly frustrating.

That's all for now, but I can think of many more examples, as I'm sure you can. Share 'em with us.

Gosh, there are so many ways a GM can screw up it's not even funny.

I think the main danger for a GM is to get too inward rather than outward looking. And by that I mean the GM getting so caught up in his own vision of his setting, his NPCs and his stories he forgets he is not the only person at the table.

That said I've come to suspect some GMs don't even care about the players/player characters; they seem them at best as a interchangeable resource or at worst as a necessary evil.

Green's got it. I'm almost tempted at times to go back to referring to the role as "referee" just to keep it front of mind (it's how I explain it to non-gamers anyhow). Most DM sins derive from a belief that they are the most important person at the table, that they "own" the game and that without their tyrannical behaviour the game would collapse or "fail".

Quote from: Soylent Green;491482That said I've come to suspect some GMs don't even care about the players/player characters; they seem them at best as a interchangeable resource or at worst as a necessary evil.

This was indeed the case in various games I've played in the past, which had a huge revolving door.  Back in the day, there were enough rpg players in the various places I lived that there were no problems with finding new or replacement players, after previous players left or were kicked out.

As a specific example, I am very leery of GMPCs, especially if they are omniscient loner badasses. While loner badasses have a place in games, and omniscient characters can be interesting if used sparingly, stand-ins for the GM's character are always unforgivable.

This was recently (the start of this year) hardened for me due to the social dysfunction in one of my pickup game groups that resulted in the GM telling one of the PCs that he couldn't do something and was frozen in place for 10 minutes while he narrated his GMPC taking out the big bad, breaking genre by killing the guy, and then counter-complaining about how the PC had tried to ruin his big scene by interfering.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;491494As a specific example, I am very leery of GMPCs, especially if they are omniscient loner badasses. While loner badasses have a place in games, and omniscient characters can be interesting if used sparingly, stand-ins for the GM's character are always unforgivable.

This was recently (the start of this year) hardened for me due to the social dysfunction in one of my pickup game groups that resulted in the GM telling one of the PCs that he couldn't do something and was frozen in place for 10 minutes while he narrated his GMPC taking out the big bad, breaking genre by killing the guy, and then counter-complaining about how the PC had tried to ruin his big scene by interfering.

The GMPC can really disrupt things. I don't normally get too irked by poor GMing, but I get annoyed when our pcs become mere spectators to tge GM's spectacular GMPC (especially if GM altered rules to make his character particularly badass).

Another sin, from the same guy as above, as part of the Last Game I Will Ever Play With Him Willingly, which took place on his birthday this summer.

We're playing D&D 3.5, even though I specifically asked if we could avoid it because I am compelled due to long familiarity with the system to power-game the fuck out it, which will be exacerbated because I know the system about ten times as well as anyone else at the table. I'm a focused conjurer specialist focusing on battlefield control and break & entry since the premise we were given was that we were a bunch of dudes who were going to break into a bank in a flooded city to recover a sword of office sent there for safe keeping. A usurper has produced a fake copy and is using it to try to become tyrant of a city (which was actually kind of a cool premise for a one-shot).

So, we're heading to the flooded city and we're wandering along the side of this river in a river valley called the Vale of Bones, and this hydra appears. We win initiative and I ask how far the hydra is (it's on the other side of a big river). The DM points to a floating dock in the lake about 75 ft. out from shore (we're maybe 30-50ft. on the deck of a cottage) and says that it's that far away. So I go "That's what, 100 ft.? It's 100 ft. away?" which is within the distance of my web spell.

The DM point blank refuses to answer that question. He says "I don't know how far 200 ft. is." OK. He comes from a British background, but I'm a Canuck so we normally use sensible systems of measurement when we're not playing this game anyhow. So I say "Is it about 30 metres?" "I don't know how far 30m is." OK. So I start trying to explain the problem, how I'm trying to figure out whether the hydra is within the range of my spell, which is 140 ft. or about 45m, and he keeps on drifting off in the middle of me explaining this, or refusing to define exactly how far the hydra is except by pointing to the dock and saying "It's that far away. Would your spell reach out to there?" and then when I finally say "Yes, it would reach the dock," he asks me if I'm sure of that or not, to which I just say "My spell reaches the dock".

This was not the only measurement-related problem in that fight. At least one of the PCs was trying to shoot it with a crossbow, which created the same problem all over again because he was 30 ft. behind me and to my left.

One of only many stories from that game, which rates as the absolute worst I have ever played in.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;491497The GMPC can really disrupt things. I don't normally get too irked by poor GMing, but I get annoyed when our pcs become mere spectators to tge GM's spectacular GMPC (especially if GM altered rules to make his character particularly badass).

I was super-guilty of this when I was younger, but it was something that I realised was foolish and immature without requiring anyone to tell me so when I turned about 16, and I kind of hold it against folks who haven't had the same realisation despite being much older than I was when I did.

Quote from: Blazing Donkey;491477- The Distracted Dipshit

Like everyone else, my life is pretty busy and it's not always easy to find a time to play when everyone can meet. So when we do get togather, I want to play; that is what I'm there for.

But you get one of these people and they want to show you a bunch of crap on their computer first, rant on about something irrelevent (eg. their neighbor), or show you newest book they got and tell you why it's better than sex.Thus, you spend anywhere from 20-60 minutes on non-game related stuff before anybody even pulls out their character.

Endlessly frustrating.

This one doesn't bother me, depending on the situation.  In our group we tend to only get together once a month or so.  So when we do usually the first 30-60 mins is just exactly that where we all catch up.  Then we get on with our game.

Now if it was only the GM doing that and everyone else was there to play, then yes that could get very anyoing if it's a chronic problem.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;491491Green's got it. I'm almost tempted at times to go back to referring to the role as "referee" just to keep it front of mind (it's how I explain it to non-gamers anyhow). Most DM sins derive from a belief that they are the most important person at the table, that they "own" the game and that without their tyrannical behaviour the game would collapse or "fail".

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;491500I was super-guilty of this when I was younger, but it was something that I realised was foolish and immature without requiring anyone to tell me so when I turned about 16, and I kind of hold it against folks who haven't had the same realisation despite being much older than I was when I did.

This and this. I did a lot of horrible GMPCing when I was younger, and these days I try to be a referee and nothing more. My games are better than ever.

I think a lousy GM is one who is oblivious to what his players like or dislike. Who doesn't listen when told and believes his knows best for the whole group.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: Blazing Donkey;491477I'm playing in the game of some randoms I met at the RPG store.  During a break, we all took a short walk to a store to get snacks and such. The GM loudly asks, "Who wants to buy a Red Bull for the GM? Might make a difference when we start playing again...!" He tried to act like he was kidding about it, but I later found out he wasn't and did that all the time - getting the others to buy all his stuff. The other players hadn't played very much & got the idea that this was 'normal' and even a right of the GM.

The reaction I had upon learning this is perhaps better imagined that described.

We always used to buy the DM pizza or something - not to buy favors, but just as a way of saying "thanks" for putting in the effort. But we always DID make it sound like this.

Quote from: kryyst;491502This one doesn't bother me, depending on the situation.  In our group we tend to only get together once a month or so.  So when we do usually the first 30-60 mins is just exactly that where we all catch up.  Then we get on with our game.

Now if it was only the GM doing that and everyone else was there to play, then yes that could get very anyoing if it's a chronic problem.

I pretty much expect this.

If I'm running the game, I set the "starting time" as 30 minutes before I actually intend to start play. Mostly because some people show up a couple minutes late, people bring food, etc. So we can sit around, bullshit, then get to the playing once everyone is settled it.

Ah the dreaded GMPC.

Many years ago there was a guy, much beloved of the local community, who GM'd White Wolf stuff, mostly Vampire. I actually worked with the guy when we weren't gaming, which made for interesting coincidence when we realized we were gaming in the same circles.  
As I said, he was much beloved as a GM locally.  His only flaw was the GMPC, and to some extent I hold him up as the Gold Standard of what a GMPC means.

He called the character 'his pc', first. Second the guy broke canon pretty severely (For the curious, I think he was a fourth gen Tremere via diablrie, and more powerful than the actual leading council of the clan... but they didn't even know he was, like, a playa... Lots of custom blood magic spells and so forth to do impossible things...).

It seems odd, yes, that such a guy would be so well liked as a GM, right? I credit the format of his games, where the GMPC would hire/force players to go somewhere and get involved with 'plot', and promptly dissappear until it was time to dispatch the bad guy. THis generally left several sessions at a time where there was no annoying GMPC to interfer in the backstabbing and general psychopathy of the players.  That, and he was a generally swell guy, swiping dental paste from a girlfriend to make fangs for people and so on and of course his actual mastery of the needs of the game.

Huh. I was going to detail a few GMPC stories, but I forgot the second one and remembered a third.
There is a reason I won't play WEG Starwars.  Something to do with a Rogue Squadron NPC waving 14+ dice at the players to mind control them to go to Yavin to meet Luke Skywalker who then hauled the starship to the surface with the power of his mind...


In that case I think any NPC with 'Jedi' in the description counted as a GMPC....  Of course, since the PC captain was 'Captain Haarlock' I'm not sure the game needed to survive anyway.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;491498Another sin, from the same guy as above, as part of the Last Game I Will Ever Play With Him Willingly, which took place on his birthday this summer.

We're playing D&D 3.5, even though I specifically asked if we could avoid it because I am compelled due to long familiarity with the system to power-game the fuck out it, which will be exacerbated because I know the system about ten times as well as anyone else at the table. I'm a focused conjurer specialist focusing on battlefield control and break & entry since the premise we were given was that we were a bunch of dudes who were going to break into a bank in a flooded city to recover a sword of office sent there for safe keeping. A usurper has produced a fake copy and is using it to try to become tyrant of a city (which was actually kind of a cool premise for a one-shot).

So, we're heading to the flooded city and we're wandering along the side of this river in a river valley called the Vale of Bones, and this hydra appears. We win initiative and I ask how far the hydra is (it's on the other side of a big river). The DM points to a floating dock in the lake about 75 ft. out from shore (we're maybe 30-50ft. on the deck of a cottage) and says that it's that far away. So I go "That's what, 100 ft.? It's 100 ft. away?" which is within the distance of my web spell.

The DM point blank refuses to answer that question. He says "I don't know how far 200 ft. is." OK. He comes from a British background, but I'm a Canuck so we normally use sensible systems of measurement when we're not playing this game anyhow. So I say "Is it about 30 metres?" "I don't know how far 30m is." OK. So I start trying to explain the problem, how I'm trying to figure out whether the hydra is within the range of my spell, which is 140 ft. or about 45m, and he keeps on drifting off in the middle of me explaining this, or refusing to define exactly how far the hydra is except by pointing to the dock and saying "It's that far away. Would your spell reach out to there?" and then when I finally say "Yes, it would reach the dock," he asks me if I'm sure of that or not, to which I just say "My spell reaches the dock".

This was not the only measurement-related problem in that fight. At least one of the PCs was trying to shoot it with a crossbow, which created the same problem all over again because he was 30 ft. behind me and to my left.

One of only many stories from that game, which rates as the absolute worst I have ever played in.

Why didn't you just ask him if your Web spell was in range of the Hydra to begin with?