Quote from: Pierce InverarityJust to be clear, that's exactly what I'm trying to say in my post in the Sherlock Holmes thread, which I wrote before noticing that Spike has argued the same thing in more detail in this one.

More generally, there are bound to be "inconsistencies" (unbalanced weapons and powerz, wacko physics) whenever you try to map a hardish system onto a softie license, no? Never having played it, how does Star Wars d20 handle that?

Star Wars doesn't really present the kinds of problems that Hinterwelt describes, because Star Wars never made the mistake of bothering to explain itself.  

It lacks the internal conflict of presenting the setting as some detailed whole, when the underlying is just as simple as Star Wars pulp, like Star Trek has.

Quote from: RedFoxOne thing that strikes me as problematic is the episodic nature of the setting.  Each location the Enterprise visits is often defined by a whole new set of rules and (in the original series, at least) part of the show's plot and running time, if not all of it, often dealt with learning what those new rules were.

The crew's encountered a powerful being claiming to be the greek god Apollo.  He appears omnipotent.  Kirk uses a female crewmate to distract him while they figure out how he gets his power and how they might disrupt it.

These sorts of things happen all the time.  It's like a cowboy show where the cowboys end up in entirely different movies every week and force them to work to their conventions.

This is exactly what I was getting at in the other thread when I described Star Trek as being nothing more than an adventure serial.

It puts on sci-fi airs, and does a decent job of fooling you for the moment that there's more complexity to the technology and such, but in reality it's all just made up as it goes along as the needs of the plot and story require.

Quote from: flyingmiceIf I were doing Trek in the StarCluster System, which advances by year, I'd do something like allow the player to pick one noun and one verb dealt with by that profession per skill rank advanced, including training.

Example:
Engineering Profession

Nouns:
Deflector, Array, Warp, Core, Impulse, M/AM, Containment, Holodeck, Buffer, Transporter, Coil, Junction, Tube, Phase, Induction, etc.

Verbs:
Recalibrate, Reconfigure, Decouple, Align, Detune, Dump, Transpose, Transfer, etc.

For each word the PC can work into the solution, up to a maximum of the years spent in that profession, the PC earns a +5 to chance of success or quality of success.

Example: Lieutenant Reina Burns, Engineering, 5 years
Relevant skills: Electronics+2, Drives+3, Mechanics+2

Nouns known: Warp, Coil, Containment, Buffer, Junction, Phase, Array
Verbs known: Recalibrate, Dump, Detune, Transfer, Align, Reconfigure, Transpose

Problem: The Jandarian Scout is able to penetrate the shields

Lt. Burns: "Captain, it's possible... maybe we can Decouple the Phase Buffer and reAlign the shield generator Array..."

Captain: "Make it so, Lieutenant."

GM: "That sounds good! I'll give you a +20, but this is a long term task. I'll need 250 points of success each for Electronics and Mechanics, roll once every 2 rounds."

Lt. Burns' Player: "Ow! That'll take too long! I'll take a penalty to my chance of success and roll once per round!"

GM: "Cool!"

Captain: "Better get started, Lieutenant, we haven't much time before the Jandarian catches up to us. Once he does, we won't last long."

-clash

Good idea Clash and what I was trying for. However, to throw a wrench into it, here is how I would have dealt with it as a player.

Bring the industrial replicators on line in the cargo bay. Replicat 50 million tennis ball size neutronium spheres. Go to warp 5 (219 times the speed of light). Allow the scout to close. Transport the spheres at 0 relative velocity (transporters adjust for relative velocities in normal transports all the time) to meters within the approaching ship. Rinse, repeat as necessary.

Not as sexy as your solution Clash but something that could be reproduced ad nauseum with no chance of failure.

Bill

Quote from: J ArcaneStar Wars doesn't really present the kinds of problems that Hinterwelt describes, because Star Wars never made the mistake of bothering to explain itself.  

Except for the Midichlorians  (or however the fuck it's spelt)...(think of a happy place..think of a happy place)

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RExcept for the Midichlorians  (or however the fuck it's spelt)...(think of a happy place..think of a happy place)

Regards,
David R

And thus we get "the exception that implies the rule".  The reason midichlorians piss everyone off so much is that they're trying to do the very thing that Star Wars is usually so good about not doing.  It's out of place, and horridly so.

Quote from: J ArcaneAnd thus we get "the exception that implies the rule".  The reason midichlorians piss everyone off so much is that they're trying to do the very thing that Star Wars is usually so good about not doing.  It's out of place, and horridly so.

I remember after Phantom, hearing stories from SW GMs of normally cool players getting all disruptive when it came to in character talk about the force.

"May the Midicholirians be with you"

"Can I get a shot or something...sounds nasty?"

"I thought you told me I didn't need to wear protection"

etc, etc

Regards,
David R

This thread reminded of something. A couple of months back, I worked up Jim Kirk in GURPS stats.  It was just after watching an enhanced epiisode of the original series that I did this.

Name: James T. KIRK
Race: Human

Attributes [80]
ST 10
DX 12 [40]
IQ 12 [40]
HT 10

HP 10
Will 12
Per 12
FP 10

Basic Lift 20
Damage 1d-2/1d

Basic Speed 5.5
Basic Move 5

Ground Move 5
Water Move 1

Social Background
TL: 12

Cultural Familiarities: United Federation of Planets (Native)

• .

Languages: English (Native)

• .

Advantages [79]
3D Spatial Sense [10]
Appearance (Attractive) [4]
Charisma (1) [5]
Combat Reflexes [15]
Luck [15]
Military Rank (Starship Captain) (6) [30]

Disadvantages [-125]
Chummy [-5]
Code of Honor (Professional) [-5]
Curious (12 or less) [-5]
Duty (To the Federation ) (15 or less (almost always)) [-15]
Enemy (Harry Mudd , irritating scoundrel ) (Less powerful than the PC) (9 or less) [-5]
Enemy (Klingon  Ship Commanders ) (medium-sized group, some formidable or super-human) (9 or less) [-30]
Enemy (Romulan Ship Commanders) (Small group (3-5 people)) (9 or less) [-10]
Fanaticism (Patriot , the Federation ) [-15]
Lecherousness (12 or less) [-15]
Sense of Duty (Comrades and Shipmates) (Large Group) [-10]
Stubbornness [-5]
Workaholic [-5]

Quirks [-6]
Chauvinistic [-1]
His shirt always gets torn in a fight [-1]
Likes to quote old Earth Authors [-1]
Not lock-stepped into the Prime Directive [-1]
Proud [-1]
Sweeping arm gestures [-1]

Skills [147]
Acting IQ/A - IQ+0 12 [2]
Administration IQ/A - IQ+2 14 [8]
Beam Weapons/TL12 (Pistol) DX/E - DX+2 14 [4]
Beam Weapons/TL12 (Rifle) DX/E - DX+2 14 [4]
Brawling DX/E - DX+3 15 [8]
Carousing HT/E - HT+1 11 [2]
Choke Hold (Judo) Tech/H - def+0 9

Computer Operation/TL12 IQ/E - IQ+2 14 [4]
Diplomacy IQ/H - IQ+0 12 [4]
Disguise/TL12 (Human) IQ/A - IQ-1 11 [1]
Elbow Strike (Brawling) Tech/A - def+0 13

Electronics Operation/TL12 (Communications) IQ/A - IQ+0 12 [2]
Electronics Operation/TL12 (Security) IQ/A - IQ-1 11 [1]
Electronics Operation/TL12 (Sensors) IQ/A - IQ+0 12 [2]
First Aid/TL12 (Human) IQ/E - IQ+0 12 [1]
Games (3-D Chess) IQ/E - IQ+0 12 [1]
Games (Poker) IQ/E - IQ+0 12 [1]
Intelligence Analysis/TL12 IQ/H - IQ-1 11 [2]
Judo DX/H - DX-1 11 [2]
Jump Kick (Karate) Tech/H - def+4 10 [5]
Jumping DX/E - DX+0 12 [1]
Karate DX/H - DX-2 10 [1]
Leadership IQ/A - IQ+6 18 [20]
   includes: +1 from 'Charisma'
Mechanic/TL12 (Aerospace) IQ/A - IQ-1 11 [1]
Mechanic/TL12 (High Performance Spacecraft) IQ/A - IQ-1 11 [1]
Mechanic/TL12 (Warp Drive) IQ/A - IQ-1 11 [1]
Navigation/TL12 (Hyperspace) IQ/A - IQ+2 14 [2]
   includes: +2 from '3D Spatial Sense'
Navigation/TL12 (Space) IQ/A - IQ+2 14 [2]
   includes: +2 from '3D Spatial Sense'
Piloting/TL12 (Aerospace) DX/A - DX+1 13 [2]
   includes: +1 from '3D Spatial Sense'
Piloting/TL12 (High-Performance Spacecraft) DX/A - DX+1 13 [2]
   includes: +1 from '3D Spatial Sense'
Power Blow Will/H - Will-2 10 [1]
Public Speaking (Oratory) IQ/E - IQ+3 15 [4]
   includes: +1 from 'Charisma'
Savoir-Faire (Military) IQ/E - IQ+3 15 [8]
Savoir-Faire (Servant) IQ/E - IQ+0 12 [1]
Sex Appeal HT/A - HT+2 12 [4]
   includes: +1 from 'Appearance'
Shiphandling/TL12 (Spaceship) IQ/H - IQ+0 12 [3]
Shiphandling/TL12 (Starship) IQ/H - IQ+1 13 [7]
Spacer/TL12 IQ/E - IQ+3 15 [8]
Stealth DX/A - DX+0 12 [2]
Strategy (Interstellar) IQ/H - IQ-1 11 [2]
Strategy (Land) IQ/H - IQ-1 11 [2]
Strategy (Space) IQ/H - IQ+1 13 [8]
Swimming HT/E - HT+1 11 [2]
Tactics IQ/H - IQ+0 12 [4]
Vacc Suit/TL12 DX/A - DX+0 12 [2]
Wrestling DX/A - DX+0 12 [2]

Stats [80] Ads [79] Disads [-125] Quirks [-6] Skills [147] = Total [175]

So, praytell, when in the series did Kirk ever fail a roll?
When was there ever any doubt that he´d win?
Is the GURPS: damage model suitable to model Kirk´s fights?

Quote from: SettembriniSo, praytell, when in the series did Kirk ever fail a roll?

 He failed a roll pretty often.  I don't feel like going through every story . (and he isn't my favorite Captain, anyway)  But he did have some failures along the way . You're saying this after 30 years of 20/20 hindsight.  The  version of Kirk that I did stats for would be circa the 4th year of that original 5 year mission.

QuoteWhen was there ever any doubt that he´d win?

 There was doubt - the first time you saw a story. Not after seeing it 12 or 14 times and becoming jaded. Example: Khan beat Kirk by being sneaky in their very first meeting. I'd say Kirk's player failed his perception roll that time.

QuoteIs the GURPS: damage model suitable to model Kirk´s fights?

Sure it is  - ever heard of something called GURPS:Prime Directive ?

- Ed C.

Yeah, gotta agree with Koltar.  I've been watching the original series every morning on TVLand for the last couple of weeks now (it's on right now actually) and I gotta say, Kirk doesn't win every round.  Far from it.  Even two-fisted as he is, he'll lose fights a lot too.

So, which episode ends in defeat?

Quote from: SettembriniSo, which episode ends in defeat?

Oh, there is one?

Quote from: RedFoxOh, there is one?

 Yes , "Errand Of Mercy " . No one wins and the damn Organians impose that treaty on both the Federation and the Klingons.  This set up the Cold War analogy for the rest of the original series.

 Also  the sort of follow-up episode "A Private Little War" - no one really wins in that one.  Starfleet and Kirk didn't "lose" , but  I would n't call that a win.

Most of Kirk's defeats took place in the middle of the episode. Then (IF they had a tad of good writing) we then saw him learn from his defeat or mistake and solve the problem by the end of the episode.


- E.W.C.

I wouldn't say he entirely "won" in "City on the Edge of Forever" either.

Yeah, like I said I'm still working my way through 'em.  I've never been a huge Trek fan.

My favorite episode so far is The Naked Time.