Quote from: Bruwulf on August 31, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
For myself, I admit that I sort of hand wave some of the downtime mechanics. I don't care if the mage takes eleven days to recover and the fighter takes twenty two days to recover, or whatever. That sort of minutia has never been, to me, what the game is about. But on the other hand, it rubs me the wrong way when players don't appreciate that getting wounded is really a big deal. And even since the beginning, with clerical healing, it's never been a huge problem, so... I don't know. I don't know what the right solution is, and I think it's going to be different for every group.

I just don't like when people try to get too anal about "healing" hit point damage, or try to take hitpoints as some concrete in-world unit, rather than a game mechanic. It gets very silly, very quick.

I don't do much bookkeeping on this either.  BUT, I estimate and tell the players that they need to hole up in some place to R&R for a few weeks.  We don't RP this but game world time goes by while they can't adventure.

Quote from: GhostNinja on August 31, 2023, 02:01:07 PM


That's a silly comment.  You can play a hero and and tell a story with the earlier editions   The difference is that the older editions don't make characters superheroes at first level.  5e is made so everyone wins and characters are almost difficult to die (because so many people have a fit about characters dying.

In games like OSE characters arent going to go into every room and not fight everyone because there is a real chance of dying.   searching isnt one skill and bam I know everything about the room.   Players have to role playing searching.

The difference being that earlier editions were not about telling stories. Stories were told of mighty deeds or tragic endings AFTER the game. The objectives of play are one of the most important aspects of game design. WOTC editions are designed with different objectives of play than AD&D or B/X for example.

Quote from: Exploderwizard on August 31, 2023, 08:52:03 PM

The difference being that earlier editions were not about telling stories.

NO edition is about telling stories.  They are about characters having adventures, reacting to the world.  Stories are something that is told AFTER something has happened.  Are you on drugs?   

Quote from: Scooter on August 31, 2023, 08:59:33 PM

Quote from: Exploderwizard on August 31, 2023, 08:52:03 PM

The difference being that earlier editions were not about telling stories.

NO edition is about telling stories.  They are about characters having adventures, reacting to the world.  Stories are something that is told AFTER something has happened.  Are you on drugs?

I guess you haven't played or even been exposed to WOTC D&D lately. The entire game is now marketed around creating heroic stories with your friends. I guess you missed the part about the importance of objectives of play and how WOTC has changed them in their products. Is your reading comprehension impaired?

Quote from: Exploderwizard on August 31, 2023, 09:52:28 PM

I guess you haven't played or even been exposed to WOTC D&D lately.

Yes, I have and you are on drugs.  There is nothing about sitting down and telling your players a story while the listen instead of playing characters in real time reacting to the game environment.  Stop with the drugs already

Quote from: Scooter on September 01, 2023, 09:33:23 AM

Quote from: Exploderwizard on August 31, 2023, 09:52:28 PM

I guess you haven't played or even been exposed to WOTC D&D lately.

Yes, I have and you are on drugs.  There is nothing about sitting down and telling your players a story while the listen instead of playing characters in real time reacting to the game environment.  Stop with the drugs already

Who said anything about the DM just sitting there telling a story? I am referring OBJECTIVES OF PLAY being about telling a COLLABORATIVE STORY through the medium of PLAYING THE GAME. That is a complete change of said OBJECTIVES OF PLAY from early editions.

5E Players Handbook: PREFACE

"Playing D&D is an exercise in collaborative creation.
You and your friends create epic stories filled with tension
and memorable drama."

Now please find for me a similar reference to collaborative story creation in AD&D or B/X and get back to me.

Quote from: Exploderwizard on September 01, 2023, 12:12:20 PMPlaying D&D is an exercise in collaborative creation.
You and your friends create epic stories filled with tension
and memorable drama

Creating stories is not telling stories.

I'm too lazy to look up rules, so I make a good guess.

Quote from: Bruwulf on September 01, 2023, 12:55:46 PM

Quote from: Exploderwizard on September 01, 2023, 12:12:20 PMPlaying D&D is an exercise in collaborative creation.
You and your friends create epic stories filled with tension
and memorable drama

Creating stories is not telling stories.

Correct, nor is it an objective of play for actual D&D.

Quote from: Bruwulf on September 01, 2023, 12:55:46 PM

Quote from: Exploderwizard on September 01, 2023, 12:12:20 PMPlaying D&D is an exercise in collaborative creation.
You and your friends create epic stories filled with tension
and memorable drama

Creating stories is not telling stories.

There should be a language comp test to be able to post.  Those with 2nd grade comp level should have to take classes before posting.  Although by age 5 I knew the difference between story telling and gathering content to make a story, for later telling.  So maybe drop that to Kindergarten comprehension level.

Quote from: Scooter on September 01, 2023, 04:28:05 PM

Quote from: Bruwulf on September 01, 2023, 12:55:46 PM

Quote from: Exploderwizard on September 01, 2023, 12:12:20 PMPlaying D&D is an exercise in collaborative creation.
You and your friends create epic stories filled with tension
and memorable drama

Creating stories is not telling stories.

There should be a language comp test to be able to post.  Those with 2nd grade comp level should have to take classes before posting.  Although by age 5 I knew the difference between story telling and gathering content to make a story, for later telling.  So maybe drop that to Kindergarten comprehension level.

Your inability to grasp the concept of objectives of play in regard to game design is not my problem. Good day sir.

Quote from: Exploderwizard on September 01, 2023, 12:12:20 PM

Quote from: Scooter on September 01, 2023, 09:33:23 AM

Quote from: Exploderwizard on August 31, 2023, 09:52:28 PM

I guess you haven't played or even been exposed to WOTC D&D lately.

Yes, I have and you are on drugs.  There is nothing about sitting down and telling your players a story while the listen instead of playing characters in real time reacting to the game environment.  Stop with the drugs already

Who said anything about the DM just sitting there telling a story? I am referring OBJECTIVES OF PLAY being about telling a COLLABORATIVE STORY through the medium of PLAYING THE GAME. That is a complete change of said OBJECTIVES OF PLAY from early editions.

5E Players Handbook: PREFACE

"Playing D&D is an exercise in collaborative creation.
You and your friends create epic stories filled with tension
and memorable drama."

Now please find for me a similar reference to collaborative story creation in AD&D or B/X and get back to me.

Why don't you just admit that you're unable to match the majestic intellect that is Scooter and call it a day. You can't beat genius like this.

Quote from: Exploderwizard on September 01, 2023, 12:12:20 PM
5E Players Handbook: PREFACE

"Playing D&D is an exercise in collaborative creation.
You and your friends create epic stories filled with tension
and memorable drama."

Now please find for me a similar reference to collaborative story creation in AD&D or B/X and get back to me.

I agree that there's been a shift from the wargaming of early D&D to more story-focused, but it's one of degrees rather than absolutes. AD&D1 had Dragonlance starting in 1984; AD&D2 had other story-centric modules like the Ravenloft setting. From the 2nd ed DMG, for example:

QuoteLike so much in a good role-playing adventure, combat is a drama, a staged play. The DM is both the playwright and the director, creating a theatrical combat. If a character wants to try wrestling a storm giant to the ground, let him; a character who tries leaping from a second floor window onto the back of a passing orc is adding to everyone's fun.

The trick to making combat vivid is to be less concerned with the rules than with what is happening at each instant of play.

The D20 System of D&D3 was in many ways a rejection of the more story-centric modules of the 1990s, and it emphasized more of a wargaming approach with miniatures.

Here is my 2c:



People always had their house rules. From the moment the game was conceived. The Perrin Conventions were created in 1976 or before. Gygax used house rules (google "Gygax house rules").

I'd have a hard time writing a game exactly as written nowadays.

EDIT: I prefer to adhere to the spirit rather than the letter of the rules (in D&D). But you cannot understand the spirit if you don't understand WHY certain rules were made. And sometimes you must admit the WHY is "because the table didn't fit the page" or "because Gygax changed his mind" (sometimes mid-writing).

Also: From the 1st edition AD&D DMG... (via Diversity & Dragons):

If you really think about it, each new version of a system is essentially an official "houserule." It's the developer looking at the rules and saying, "I think we can improve this somewhat." You expect a professional developer to make balanced changes that work on a table, but anybody that truly understands the interconnectivity of a game system can make those same changes.

Yet even balanced rules carry some subjectivity from the one who wrote it. Everyone has their own preferred method of running /playing a game, and that's really at the heart of a good houserule. That's how you can get two different people who both love one game system look at a new version and come away with completely different opinions on it. There's nothing wrong with playing a game RAW if it hits on the ways you like to have to fun. For everyone else, there's houserules.