I reckon I've got about 300.
I just checked. 1,319.
Too many...
It's actually a complicated question. Some are on CD from changing PCs. I also tend to download at work (dial up at home) and then eventually put them on CD or memory stick to take home so they're on two computers.
It's several hundred. I've bought a handful. The rest are free, legally available things.
Two and they are both from Miller.
About 60.
Most are Necro and DF downloads: maps, char sheets and the like, with a few web expansions. There're maybe a dozen modules and only one ruleset (FUDGE).
About 900.
1,355 although that's only on C: I have a portable HD that I have a number of PDF's on and my C: on my home PC has some more. Some files appear on all three.
The 1,355 isn't all RPG stuff however, since it's my works PC.
Do I win?
Quote from: Name LipsI just checked. 1,319.
Damn, I thougt I had a lot. :eek:
Not that many on my hard drive. Maybe 20-30. But that's because I occasionally burn all my files to CD and delete them off the hard drive. Add in those I have on CD, and it'll mount into the hundreds.
Quote from: Harry JoyCan anyone recommend a good, free source for non-RPG pdfs? I went a'traipsing around the net last week looking for some, but every site I came across seemed dubious at best.
I have plenty of sources for RPG pdfs. Looking to branch out.
Uh like what did you have in mind. What type of things are you talking about.
I've probably got about 100 core books.
Quote from: Harry JoyBooks. Any kind. My taste is for history, short stories, and myth. But any source will do. The only legit sources I've found are largely academic. No biggie, except I'm not that into hard or applied sciences.
Your not going to be finding any of those for free from "legit" sources. Unless Google wins its court cases for building its online scans of books, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Falls under same IP laws as music and movies.
Quote from: Harry JoyBooks. Any kind. My taste is for history, short stories, and myth. But any source will do. The only legit sources I've found are largely academic. No biggie, except I'm not that into hard or applied sciences.
Not exactly what you're looking for(and not always PDF) but here's a few, all legal:
Baen Free Library, complete SF/Fantasy novels, mainly older books by midlist authors but some decent stuff.
http://www.baen.com/library/
Project Gutenberg. Huge selection (17,000) but mostly classics - it's all out of copyright and most pre-20th century. Search interface so-so.
http://www.gutenberg.org/
Black Mask Online. Specializes in early 20th and late 19th century fiction, especially pulp/adventure. It looks like they're much bigger than last time I looked.
http://www.blackmask.com/cgi-bin/newlinks/page.cgi?d=1
For those of you that don't know. WotC has a download section on their site from which you can download for free. These are 2nd Edition downloads and a lot of them are for the Forgotten Realms, but its free. :D
WotC Downloads (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads)
66 Gigs worth, but that's counting all the different issues of dragon and dungeon as well. Several thousand different products.
I think I have 3 or 4 files... and maybe about the same number of excerpts from specific things I needed or wanted to look up for a character. My hard drive is too small to ever join the hub, much to my chagrin.*
*i.e. didn't have the space to have the minimum of stuff to share to join.
Quote from: KnightcrawlerYour not going to be finding any of those for free from "legit" sources.
That's not entirely true. Once copyright drops, people can put it online and have been more and more. There's tons of stuff >80 years old.
Sometimes the copyright holder will also put stuff up as free samples, such as Baen does with many of their authors. There isn't much of this though so most of the stuff online is old.
Quote from: KnightcrawlerDamn, I thougt I had a lot. :eek:
I have this habit when browsing in DC++ to grab people's RPG directories wholesale. It's possible I have some duplicates, since I rarely get the bug to go and organize them. A lot of them are old 1st or 2nd ed adventures, dragon/dungeon mags, and random crap from various obscure RPGs.
Quote from: Name LipsI have this habit when browsing in DC++ to grab people's RPG directories wholesale. It's possible I have some duplicates, since I rarely get the bug to go and organize them. A lot of them are old 1st or 2nd ed adventures, dragon/dungeon mags, and random crap from various obscure RPGs.
About the same here. ButI've gone through and cleaned everything up and deleted any duplicates. At least a third of my stuff is old 2nd Edition stuff but its still usefiul for the fluff sections.
Quote from: KnightcrawlerAbout the same here. ButI've gone through and cleaned everything up and deleted any duplicates. At least a third of my stuff is old 2nd Edition stuff but its still usefiul for the fluff sections.
Yeah ditto, I have pretty close to every PDF for a gaming supplement available right now. I have a naming system and clean it up pretty constantly so it's fairly well organized. I have two hard drives storing stuff too, an older one that I'm slowly converting to a new file system/type and dumping into the newer larger one.
I'm also constantly looking for newer, smaller, cleaner, OCR versions of files, since a lot of the initial scans, especially for major name brand stuff, is garbage.
Quote from: JanosYeah ditto, I have pretty close to every PDF for a gaming supplement available right now. I have a naming system and clean it up pretty constantly so it's fairly well organized. I have two hard drives storing stuff too, an older one that I'm slowly converting to a new file system/type and dumping into the newer larger one.
I'm also constantly looking for newer, smaller, cleaner, OCR versions of files, since a lot of the initial scans, especially for major name brand stuff, is garbage.
Hmmmmm.....we may have to touch base. You might have some stuff that I've been looking for.
Quote from: KnightcrawlerHmmmmm.....we may have to touch base. You might have some stuff that I've been looking for.
Let me know, and if you're looking for a particular product I can check the older hard drive too.
Quote from: JanosLet me know, and if you're looking for a particular product I can check the older hard drive too.
I'll PM you at SO with a couple of things.
I've got a few... Maybe two dozen or so.
Most of them are old Basic and 1st ed. AD&D modules that I used to have, but lost. The rest are interesting little bits that I picked up, but never really got a chance to use.
I've kind of slowed down on my PDF purchases lately, due to the lengthy download times of my dialup connaction at home.
i might like to finally join the hub when my computer is back up and running... i don't know how many PDFs i have, but there are a lot.
I could the total on both hands and I've only paid for one of them.
Quote from: fett527I could the total on both hands and I've only paid for one of them.
Paid? Whats that? :D
I don't think I have any. I will download one once in awhile to evaulate a book. I either buy the book and delete the pdf or I don't buy the book and delete the pdf.
Too many. :o
I always buy the ones I use in a game, though.
-O
I think I had 12 GB at one point, but I delete/burn to CD as I have time to sort through the mess. I have no idea how much I have right now. I know I have just about every WOTC 3.5 release on my work machine for easy reference.
150-200
I have yet to find a english version of the new warhammer rpg....
I like getting the old stuff, though Fanpro/shadowrun have pissed me off, they charge for the first and 2nd ed stuff....
I really need to sort mine better,....all my stuff needs sorted you look at my mp3's and its just one directory full of them and a couple full albums....
Quote from: P&PHow many RPG PDF's on your hard drive? (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?p=1532#post1532)
They're mixed up with other text documents in various formats, but I'd venture a guess and say around 500-600 of them.
Something odd has happened though. I had some harddrive issues before and thought I had recovered everything off the disk, but the D&D 3E folder is completely gone.
So right now I have more material on FATAL than on the current edition of D&D. ;)
*gasp* :eek:
Quote from: Dr_AvalancheSo right now I have more material on FATAL than on the current edition of D&D. ;)
You could take that as a sign that you need to start a FATAL campaign.
Don't.
Over 1,000, but I'm a collector and a packrat.
Quote from: ZalmoxisOver 1,000, but I'm a collector and a packrat.
You need to join the hub. :D
Quote from: KnightcrawlerYou need to join the hub. :D
I'm on there occasionally, but my .pdf's are mostly kept offline on discs. Once I get more HD space, I'll put more up. As it is, I only have enough up to not anger the folks.
Quote from: Dr_AvalancheSo right now I have more material on FATAL than on the current edition of D&D. ;)
I have exactly equal amounts of materal on FATAL and on the current edition of D&D. :)
Quote from: ZalmoxisI'm on there occasionally, but my .pdf's are mostly kept offline on discs. Once I get more HD space, I'll put more up. As it is, I only have enough up to not anger the folks.
Some of us are more interested in your musical collection.
Yeah I need to organize and then work on getting my movies and mp3's on the hub.
258
Quote from: Mistwell258
Gaming PDF's?
I think I somewhere around 1100 now.
Quote from: ElidiaSome of us are more interested in your musical collection.
I am undergoing something massive on that front. The complete, correct ID3 tagging of approximately 10,000 songs. Right now I'm about 50% done. They will be grouped according to year, like a singles list. Once you download them however, you can manage them any way you want, as the tags will be complete. It's a major pain in the butt, as file management programs with auto-taggers are only somewhat useful in doing this. Often times it's easier just to do the files one by one. At least it is for me.
Quote from: ZalmoxisI am undergoing something massive on that front. The complete, correct ID3 tagging of approximately 10,000 songs. Right now I'm about 50% done. They will be grouped according to year, like a singles list. Once you download them however, you can manage them any way you want, as the tags will be complete. It's a major pain in the butt, as file management programs with auto-taggers are only somewhat useful in doing this. Often times it's easier just to do the files one by one. At least it is for me.
Only problem with your mp3s (I think its you) is that on the hub only the song titles are listed. :(
Quote from: KnightcrawlerOnly problem with your mp3s (I think its you) is that on the hub only the song titles are listed. :(
That's the meta dump folder for the tagged .mp3's on my home machine... when I get on the hub with the moogspaceport account, they are organized by artist... but have not yet been properly tagged. I will rarely use my home account anyway, as it's on dialup. Once I get them all sorted, I will replace the moogspaceport files with the correctly-tagged ones, and I'll arrange them by artist. So, when you browse the Rolling Stones for example, you will see a list of song titles under the Rolling Stones folder. The real beauty of this for me is that I can use a file manager to sort my .mp3's by any of the ID3 tags. So if I want a compilation of late 70's punk, I can do that easily and not leave off the obscure ones I forget when I try to make my music cd.
In that case, let us know when you're done with that project - how long have you been at it?
I need to do much the same with my files, but haven't found a program that makes it easy to do, even one-by-one by hand.
Quote from: ElidiaIn that case, let us know when you're done with that project - how long have you been at it?
I need to do much the same with my files, but haven't found a program that makes it easy to do, even one-by-one by hand.
I've been at it for a few months, a little bit at a time. I'll let everyone know when it's done.
I'm not a big PDF buyer, but I'm warming up to the idea.
only 15 for me so far.
I don't have a hard number, but I know it's in the hundreds.
Quote from: McrowI'm not a big PDF buyer, but I'm warming up to the idea.
only 15 for me so far.
LOL!! You do realize that no one here is talking about buying them.
well, not most of us at least. ;)
Quote from: BOZwell, not most of us at least. ;)
True, true.
Quote from: KnightcrawlerLOL!! You do realize that no one here is talking about buying them.
Well, I guess since this is an RPG site, I assumed that the OP meant RPG PDFs.:o
If you are talking all PDFs geez i'm not counting all of those, what kind of question would that be?:confused:
Quote from: McrowWell, I guess since this is an RPG site, I assumed that the OP meant RPG PDFs.:o
If you are talking all PDFs geez i'm not counting all of those, what kind of question would that be?:confused:
Naw, a lot of us are talking about scans of books that you can't get in pdf form. But yes its RPG pdfs.
I'm probably just breaking a hundred. I don't buy much. Because I wrote for him once, I keep receiving every one of TheLe's releases. The sad thing is that I don't use a tenth of the PDFs I do own.
Quote from: RoudiI'm probably just breaking a hundred. I don't buy much. Because I wrote for him once, I keep receiving every one of TheLe's releases. The sad thing is that I don't use a tenth of the PDFs I do own.
Better to have too many than not enough. :D
Quote from: KnightcrawlerLOL!! You do realize that no one here is talking about buying them.
Speak for yourself. The copies of all the PDFs on my hard drive are completely legal.
I think I've got to be over 2000 but I don't orgnaize them that much as people just keep giving me more and more.....
Quote from: BullittSpeak for yourself. The copies of all the PDFs on my hard drive are completely legal.
Ditto.
I honestly can't find a good reason for pirating RPG PDFs wholesale. The core rules for d20 gaming are freely available. Most PDF scans of RPG books lack what I appreciate most about PDFs: hyperlinking, bookmarks, and selectable/searchable text. Also, some of the bigger names in PDF publishing (ie Ronin Arts) are run by people who make their living selling PDFs; pirating them isn't denying a faceless corporation of one sale among thousands, but is spitting in the face of a hard-working writer/publisher. Finally, most of the PDFs I want are cheap enough to purchase. Cheap and legal is, in my mind, a better bargain that free and ill-gotten.
Quote from: RoudiDitto.
I honestly can't find a good reason for pirating RPG PDFs wholesale. The core rules for d20 gaming are freely available. Most PDF scans of RPG books lack what I appreciate most about PDFs: hyperlinking, bookmarks, and selectable/searchable text. Also, some of the bigger names in PDF publishing (ie Ronin Arts) are run by people who make their living selling PDFs; pirating them isn't denying a faceless corporation of one sale among thousands, but is spitting in the face of a hard-working writer/publisher. Finally, most of the PDFs I want are cheap enough to purchase. Cheap and legal is, in my mind, a better bargain that free and ill-gotten.
Most of the pdf's I have are actually scans of print books that I own. I try when I can to buy the ones from the small press places, basically anything other than WotC and White Wolf.
Quote from: Harry JoyInternet piracy ruined my life's work and my career.
I must have missed this story, care to share?
Quote from: Harry JoyI spent most of the last twenty years working in record retail. I was very good at it, and my last store was an awesome place to hang out and listen to music. The culmination of all my work, the ultimate record store. I was very responsive to my customers and changing trends, but it got to the point that I would pimp the hell out of the latest and greatest tunes, but instead of buying the records, my customers would thank me for the tips and go rip them off the 'net.
Honestly, for many years I refused to touch a computer because of it. I was very late getting on the pc bandwagon. And it is why I am a grocer now. When I exited music, I sat down and made a list of businesses I didn't think the web could destroy.
It's very unfortunate that happened to you, and many others I am sure. Any time competition due to technology pushes people out of business, an unfortunate side effect is the loss of professionals such as yourself. The march of progress often has unintended consequences. I hope you are able to find happiness in whatever you do from now on.
50-ish, maybe? Not a whole lot, I guess I am still a hardcopy type of person still.
There comes a point in many a person's life where they stop counting the physical number of any single item, and start measureing it in Gigabytes. I'm currently at 6.82 Gigabytes, and that number is increasing constantly...
Quote from: ZalmoxisIt's very unfortunate that happened to you, and many others I am sure. Any time competition due to technology pushes people out of business, an unfortunate side effect is the loss of professionals
The thing is, in Harry's case, it wasn't just progress, it was also copyright theft.
Of my hundreds, a couple dozen are purchased, the rest are legal freebies.
Quote from: AelfinnThere comes a point in many a person's life where they stop counting the physical number of any single item, and start measureing it in Gigabytes. I'm currently at 6.82 Gigabytes, and that number is increasing constantly...
24.8 GB and that is also constantly increasing. :D
Quote from: Harry JoyI spent most of the last twenty years working in record retail. I was very good at it, and my last store was an awesome place to hang out and listen to music. The culmination of all my work, the ultimate record store. I was very responsive to my customers and changing trends, but it got to the point that I would pimp the hell out of the latest and greatest tunes, but instead of buying the records, my customers would thank me for the tips and go rip them off the 'net.
Honestly, for many years I refused to touch a computer because of it. I was very late getting on the pc bandwagon. And it is why I am a grocer now. When I exited music, I sat down and made a list of businesses I didn't think the web could destroy.
Harry, while I feel you on the subject, I'll say that I had stopped buying records before I ever owned a computer. Traditional ways and means of obtaining music were already frustrating and expensive unless one was buying the trash the record companies were pushing heavily. I'm sorry you've become a casuality to both bad business and technology.
Quote from: Name LipsI just checked. 1,319.
*shits self* :eek:
I should add that the .pdf's on my hard drive are all products of which I have bought physical copies legitimately. I ... obtained ... pdf's of my 1e AD&D stuff on the grounds that my books are starting to look a bit battered.
If they were still in print, I'd have bought replacements, but they just aren't.
11 ish... more if you count rules for Warhamer mini games...
I'm sitting on around 10 gig plus or minus a few megs.
ah, yay, my computer is back up and running. :)
so then, how would i get onto the hub? :)
No way I am going to figure that out. Way too many, since I only use probably 5% of them.
Quote from: NightfangNo way I am going to figure that out. Way too many, since I only use probably 5% of them.
Just right click on the folder that their in and choose properties.
Quote from: KnightcrawlerJust right click on the folder that their in and choose properties.
Oh sure, point out the obvious. :p I am at work anyway, I don't have any here. I will check when I get home.
519, but I need to clean it up some.
I don't have the faintest notion...what with the ENnies and Staff Reviewing it must be in the bazillions though.
Not many. I really don't care for reading RPGs off the computer, and I find the PDF to be more of a pain than the book, even with a laptop at the table. So I only get PDFs of books I actually own, and therefore consider them legal. Sure, I downloaded them off P2P sites but since I own 1) the book 2) a full version of Acrobat and 3) a scanner, prove I didn't scan it myself. Fair use, bitch. :p
I keep them around because it's handy for a quick reference while working on a game, I can keep copies at work, and I can keep the handy charts and stuff up while the game is going on. Still, if there's no dead tree I'm not using it.
Quote from: MaddmanNot many. I really don't care for reading RPGs off the computer, and I find the PDF to be more of a pain than the book, even with a laptop at the table. So I only get PDFs of books I actually own, and therefore consider them legal. Sure, I downloaded them off P2P sites but since I own 1) the book 2) a full version of Acrobat and 3) a scanner, prove I didn't scan it myself. Fair use, bitch. :p
I keep them around because it's handy for a quick reference while working on a game, I can keep copies at work, and I can keep the handy charts and stuff up while the game is going on. Still, if there's no dead tree I'm not using it.
I'm with you I prefer teh actual books. But for reference purposes I'd rather just use my laptop rather than haul 30-40 books around. Plus with money being tight often buying the pdf is often much cheaper.
Downloading PDF's off the internet is a lot like jerking off. Everybody does it, nobody ever talks about it. The ones who loudly proclaim that they would never do such a thing are usually the ones who jerk off the most. ;) :D
Interestingly enough, the ones I value the most aren't the ones I would use for my game. The ones I use with any regularity I just buy.
The ones I really value are the old, out of print ones, the ones I'm never going to find for sale anywhere.
Quote from: Name LipsInterestingly enough, the ones I value the most aren't the ones I would use for my game. The ones I use with any regularity I just buy.
The ones I really value are the old, out of print ones, the ones I'm never going to find for sale anywhere.
Yes this is the same way I am. I was very glad when WotC released some of their 2nd Edition stuff as free downloads, I just wish they would let the entire 2E catalogue out like that. PDF's are the only way I have some 1st & 2nd edition stuff.
Quote from: KnightcrawlerYes this is the same way I am. I was very glad when WotC released some of their 2nd Edition stuff as free downloads, I just wish they would let the entire 2E catalogue out like that. PDF's are the only way I have some 1st & 2nd edition stuff.
it annoys the hell out of me when some companies charge for pdf's of games that are 10+ years out of print, or from 2-3 versions ago and so on....
Quote from: Reefer Madnessit annoys the hell out of me when some companies charge for pdf's of games that are 10+ years out of print, or from 2-3 versions ago and so on....
A couple of years back Bastion was being paid by WotC to turn their back catalogue into pdfs. That were then sold for a very resonable price, like $2-$3 a piece. Jim Butler was very enthusiastic about the project. Unfortunately about a year after it started it seemed to have been stopped because of budget cuts. :(
Quote from: KnightcrawlerA couple of years back Bastion was being paid by WotC to turn their back catalogue into pdfs. That were then sold for a very resonable price, like $2-$3 a piece. Jim Butler was very enthusiastic about the project. Unfortunately about a year after it started it seemed to have been stopped because of budget cuts. :(
Yeah, despite that, though, an avid fanbase has managed to turn many of those old edition items that never completed into PDFs. I don't think the Netheril Box Set was ever PDFed by them, but the scanners out there did. Wizards has Netheril: Empire of Magic for download, but that is just a sourcebook. The box set had nifty maps and such in it (that were scanned by fans, also).
Quote from: Name LipsThe ones I really value are the old, out of print ones, the ones I'm never going to find for sale anywhere.
Maybe not legally, but morally, I consider there to be a big loophole for products that are long out of print, either totally unavailable or selling for 10 times its original price. If anything, it's archiving the game and keeping it the gaming consciousness.
10-15 years ago, I photocopied a few rule books that couldn't be found. Now, I would have found them online.
I'm nearing 2K pdf's on my HD. All sorts of stuff like freebies of Exalted and the new WoD, to all sorts of D20 material. The full set of the MSH line is my favorite part of the collection, though.
Quote from: NightfangI don't think the Netheril Box Set was ever PDFed by them, but the scanners out there did. Wizards has Netheril: Empire of Magic for download, but that is just a sourcebook. The box set had nifty maps and such in it (that were scanned by fans, also).
I have the Nethril: Empire Magic Supplement but I never remember a boxed set. And I have pretty much everything for FR that they ever put out in 2E. I don't ever remember seeing anything about a boxed set for Nethril.
I just cleaned out the whole bunch of them , save for "Buy the Numbers" , which I have yet to convert to a more sensible format.
I really *HATE* PDF.....
Quote from: MegamieuwselI just cleaned out the whole bunch of them , save for "Buy the Numbers" , which I have yet to convert to a more sensible format.
I really *HATE* PDF.....
What format would you put them in? I like pdf because everyone can read them even the sorry, sorry mac people.
Quote from: KnightcrawlerWhat format would you put them in? I like pdf because everyone can read them even the sorry, sorry mac people.
HTML ; EVERY browser can read that. No need for extra progs.
Quote from: MegamieuwselHTML ; EVERY browser can read that. No need for extra progs.
Ah, can't argee with that. :D
Quote from: KnightcrawlerAh, can't argee with that. :D
Thought so..... ;)
What are you using to make the transfer over to HTML? Does it change the file that much size wise and are there problems with keeping things formatted and readable.
I started with freebies.
That's all I really wanted... honest.
Then I modified my morality to include the idea that - if I already own the paper version - it's okay to *obtain* one on the 'net. A back-up. A portable version since I travel constantly.
Yeah.
Today I have 1,664 PDF files. I've not even opened most. It's an addiction and I now feel guilty.
Dedicated to Harry Joy:
*Select ALL*
.
.
.
*ponder*
.
.
.
*sigh*
.
.
.
*delete*
Nothing wrong with having a pdf of something you own in print. Thats what 90% mine consist of. And I don't see any morality problem with it. I paid them once, I'm not going to pay them twice. And then there's the ones that have no pdf of them.
If you deleted them all then your an idiot.
Quote from: KnightcrawlerWhat are you using to make the transfer over to HTML? Does it change the file that much size wise and are there problems with keeping things formatted and readable.
I wish I knew of a way:
So far , I just got rid of all those pesky PDFs , I wasn't using anyway.
The only one , I'm interested in(and legally bought by proxy of the It's Man , to whom I still owe the money(Or a six-pack of local brew...)) is "Buy the numbers".
I'm still looking for a way to import it into OpenOffice , then export it as HTML.
Bugger is : OO can export as PDF ,
but cannot read PDFs.....
At least not as it is installed on my system. I may be overlooking some plugin. Need to look into it a bit more.
Quote from: KnightcrawlerI have the Nethril: Empire Magic Supplement but I never remember a boxed set. And I have pretty much everything for FR that they ever put out in 2E. I don't ever remember seeing anything about a boxed set for Nethril.
My bad, I was confused with something else.
Did you try these for converting PDF to HTML ?
This converter is free but displays a sponsor page.
http://www.pdf995.com/download.html
http://www.pdfpdf.com/pdfconverter.html
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=45839
I'll have a try when I could.
Chacal
Didn't look at the first one yet.
The second one didn't work with files with columns, which is a pretty big disadvantage (or rather, it read the columns wrong so you get Line1Col1, Line1Col2, Line2Col1, Line2Col2 instead of Line1Col1, Line2Col1, Line1Col2, Line2Col2). It also doesn't work with PDFs that are just scanned (which I assume is right for all of them).
The third didn't have a proper GUI easily available. There was a link to one, but that site was broken and didn't allow me to download.
But thanks for trying anyway :)
If you don't count adventures, supplements, and fast-play/demo versions, about 30.
If you do count the above-listed, about 450.
About 7 1/2 inches, last I checked.
Quote from: hexgridAbout 7 1/2 inches, last I checked.
heh heh heh... hard drive...
YAWN!
I used to be on the hub, but I'd liekt o get back on to it...
I've only got about 6 or 7. All of which were free downloads I got here and there like the Ars Magica rules.