When halflings go to war with bigger races, how much of a factor do you think size should be? How many halflings does it take to kill one human soldier (generally speaking). Can they overcome the problem through tactics and formations? Turn their smaller size into an advantage?
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;626732When halflings go to war with bigger races, how much of a factor do you think size should be? How many halflings does it take to kill one human soldier (generally speaking). Can they overcome the problem through tactics and formations? Turn their smaller size into an advantage?
"Scholar: Who has the advantage in fight, of a tall man, or a man of mean stature?
Master: The tall man has the vantage, for these causes(23): his reach being longer, and weapon unto his stature accordingly, he has thereby a shorter course with his feet to win the true place, wherein by the swift motion of his hand, he may strike or thrust home, in which time a man of mean stature cannot reach him, & by his large pace, in his true pace in his regression further, sets himself out of danger, & these are the vantages that a tall man has against any man of shorter reach than himself.
Scholar: What vantage has a man of mean stature against a tall man?
Master: He has none: because the true times in fight, and actions accordingly, are to be observed and done, as well by a tall man, as by a man of mean stature."
(George Silver)
Halflings would fare badly in open fight, but no doubt they could win with judicious tactics, choice of terrain, etc. Stuff that immediately comes to mind is
- fighting in jungle or other terrain where their longer-limbed opponents won't have the advantage of longer pace, etc (Dark Sun?)
- using concealment.
Halflings could probably complement taller allies in a close skirmish, simply because of the difficulty in transitioning perception up-down vs left-right--enemies are focusing on the tall folks.
I don't know if Eskrima etc skirmish techniques would be appropriate, don't know enough about them.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;626732When halflings go to war with bigger races, how much of a factor do you think size should be? How many halflings does it take to kill one human soldier (generally speaking). Can they overcome the problem through tactics and formations? Turn their smaller size into an advantage?
Stay in groups, use ranged devices as much as possible, and when the enemy closes on you, scatter and make them chase you so that others can pick off individuals using archery.
In short, take away the advantage that a taller and tougher race has: being able to slug it out face-to-face.
Dwarves, OTOH,
can slug it out face-to-face with other "normal" sized races, so there's no need to run.
I think halflings wouldn't "go to war" in the first place. Nation-states are a relatively modern thing, and the concept of, say, "All English versus all Germans in TOTAL WAR (even if for you specifically it only means working in an airplane factory)" is kind of alien to a medieval-ish setting. Most people would be just content to lead their lives, pray their lands do not get ravaged by war or their city isn't besieged; and at the end of day they'd just pay their taxes to whichever lord happened to have control over their stretch of the world, not really caring whether he's the Duke of A, the King of B, the Doge of C or the Caliph of D.
And to me, that mentality describes halflings perfectly. They're a homely, non-adventurous, non-violent people who'd rather just pay their taxed and be left alone. Sure, they would have some sort of more-or-less organised force against bandits, minor raiders and the like; but on the whole they'd prefer to just sit out major wars.
Quote from: Premier;626739They're a homely, non-adventurous, non-violent people who'd rather just pay their taxed and be left alone.
+1
"Phlegmatic" is the description in my RQIII books.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;626732When halflings go to war with bigger races, how much of a factor do you think size should be?
This is one case where the real world can actually offer some perspective.
Tribes of shorter-on-average people exist. What happened with them, when engaging in combat with taller-on-average combatants?
Halflings in BECMI/RC get +1 to hit with missile weapons. I imagine halflings would have no cavalry and make poor infantry due to being, well, 1.0m to 1.2m (3-4 feet in 'Murica) tall. But as scouts, skirmishers or guerillas defending their home territory, setting up ambushes with slingers and archers, I think they'd kick all sorts of asses.
Quote from: Daddy Warpig;626742This is one case where the real world can actually offer some perspective.
Tribes of shorter-on-average people exist. What happened with them, when engaging in combat with taller-on-average combatants?
That is true, but in most pf the examples I can think of the smaller tribes also had a tech disadvantage (in the case of the Battle of Mactan there might be omething to draw on in terms of how to level the field a bit). In my setting the halflings have the better tech (something I probaby should have mentioned in the op). Even in these cases, you are still dealing with humans fighting humans. Lapu-Lapu wasn't childsized (as halflings are often depicted). I think when you get down to the size of a halfling the disadvantage is much more significant (though I have been thinking of making my halflings a bit beefier). Still I think that example moght offer soje insight (anyone familiar with that battle?)
Quote from: The Butcher;626747Halflings in BECMI/RC get +1 to hit with missile weapons. I imagine halflings would have no cavalry and make poor infantry due to being, well, 1.0m to 1.2m (3-4 feet in 'Murica) tall. But as scouts, skirmishers or guerillas defending their home territory, setting up ambushes with slingers and archers, I think they'd kick all sorts of asses.
This is the other thing that I have been thinking about. Mechanically, there isnt really a huge difference between halflings and humans in most games (not anything comparable to how i would picture Bilbo versus a human from middle earth for instance. In my own game the difference is a strength cap on the halflings for the most part, and this is why I am thinking of making the halflings a bit larger.
I can definitely picture them as scouts and guerillas. The problem I face is my halflings have a trade empire and i think occassionally they would be required to besiege a city or face an opponent in open battle. So I am wondering how the great halfling generals would handle this (overwhelming numbers? Heavy use of archers? Etc). In the backstory, they form a bit of a symbiotic relationship with the dwarves, using them as their infantry. But prior to that, the halflings would have had to serve as their own infantry.
Well, let's see on how it is practically.
Haflings are:
* Shorter.
That means shorter Move Distance, shorter effective reach, and less HP in comparison.
However, something that often seems to be forgotten, is that they also is half a target, and should therefor be harder to hit.
Also, they are harder to hit once really up close, especially if the "human-sized" is armed with a sword or longer, while the halfling may be in the correct height of damaging the humansized one's ... male parts.
So the answer may really be 2 Haflings.
One distracts and may or may not get killed, while the other gets close, and strikes .... balls.
As an organized infantry ... Distractions, distractions, distractions.
fireworks, smoke-powder, unexpected allies(wooden constructs), what have you.
Movable (if somewhat slow) archer cover, .....
Things that help compensate for small stature:
1) polearms
(http://i445.photobucket.com/albums/qq173/juicytomatoes/halflings18fin.jpg)
2) cavalry mobility
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2iskpGUfW1rty7tao1_500.jpg)(http://aquerra.wikispaces.com/file/view/halflingoutrider.jpg/31402847/halflingoutrider.jpg)
Give 'em poison darts and blowguns... tactics that make maximum use of covering terrain. Tunnels that are too small for big'uns to chase after them.
Quote from: Premier;626739...They're a homely, non-adventurous, non-violent people who'd rather just pay their taxed and be left alone...
True, and they might also be used to getting pushed around. If they do still command a fertile homeland, it's because some among them have booby-trapped the fuck out of their borders, Ewok-like, giving rise in the world of the Big Folk to legends of the almost magical trickery of the Little People.
I'm picturing The Shire, full of tiger pits, punji sticks and Malayan man traps.
Quote from: Daddy Warpig;626742This is one case where the real world can actually offer some perspective.
Tribes of shorter-on-average people exist. What happened with them, when engaging in combat with taller-on-average combatants?
Genghis Khan might have a few things to say about that!
Warfare isn't combat. One on one battles have exactly nothing to do with who wins a war. It's all about strategy and tactics, or the concentration of forces. Whoever is better at concentrating their forces, assuming no massive disparity in technology, where they need them will win the day. The aforementioned Golden Horde, Charles Martel, The Finns in WW2, all of these picked their battles against much larger forces and won almost every time.
If you can get more of your guys against smaller groups of the enemy in an environment of your choosing that plays to your strengths, the odds are stacked in your favour, even if the enemy is more powerful as a whole.
Quote from: Simlasa;626941I'm picturing The Shire, full of tiger pits, punji sticks and Malayan man traps.
That is weirdly awesome.
Yes, as I recently commented on another thread, to me Halflings are slingshot snipers and sneak-attack groin-stabbers.
RPGPundit
How Many Halflings Does it Take to Screw in a Light Bulb ?
I doubt more than two could fit in a light bulb, let alone screw in one...
-clash
Well, if we go with the halflings as master thieves bit, they fight half hearted delaying actions and withdrawals until the throat of every enemy leader has been cut in the dead of night. They leave snipers behind enemy lines. I don't think they'd mess up their lands with stakes in pits or anything those have a way of causing problems at home. But I'd imagine some "shires" wouldn't have a problem with going after the loved ones of the enemy in their own homes or poisoning the supporting population of an invading nation en-masse.
They can't out run the enemy and can't out fight them but they can out hide them and out climb them and outwit them. Indeed, why assassinate the enemy king when you can assassinate his neighboring ally and pin it on him right?
Without mounts of some sort, they would struggle in a bloody hand to hand engagement. Mounted archery for the win?
But there is no reason they cant win on strategy, tactics, morale, or money.
But in a 'fair' fight where standing your ground and fighting hand to hand is forced upon them....ouch.
I just realized what Halflings fighting in urban environments would be like:
Home Alone.
3 ft tall, 50 pounders against 6 ft tall, 180 pounders? If all things being equal, an infantry squad would fare about as well as a peewee football team would against a varsity team.
so yeah, I don't see halflings putting forth a traditional army for that reason, as well as reasons already presented.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;6273263 ft tall, 50 pounders against 6 ft tall, 180 pounders? If all things being equal, an infantry squad would fare about as well as a peewee football team would against a varsity team.
so yeah, I don't see halflings putting forth a traditional army for that reason, as well as reasons already presented.
I suspect they would not have heavy infantry. Ranged weapons, skirmishers, and mounted troops would be likely. Mercenerys and allies to hold the center?
Give them guns and see what happens :)
Quote from: Daddy Warpig;627324I just realized what Halflings fighting in urban environments would be like:
Home Alone.
I love the imagery conjured by this. Thank you.
So polearms supported by LOTS of archery, from the flanks in open warfare, but little open warfare and lots of trapping.
Quote from: Bill;627337I suspect they would not have heavy infantry. Ranged weapons, skirmishers, and mounted troops would be likely. Mercenerys and allies to hold the center?
Give them guns and see what happens :)
Yes, lots of guns. I like this thought too.
RPGs tend to portray the fantasy races in a familiar light. Dwarves are dour, alcoholic xenophobes with axes, Elves are androgynous dendrophiles with bows, Halflings are shoeless, voracious pacifists and Humans are greedy, self-righteous imperialists.
There are literally hundreds of different personality types and physical traits amongst our own species; the same should be said of any fantasy race. Relying on these same bland fantasy tropes is boring.
Look no further than Dark Sun for examples of how Halflings (and a number of other races) have been personified in a unique way.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;626755The problem I face is my halflings have a trade empire and i think occassionally they would be required to besiege a city or face an opponent in open battle. So I am wondering how the great halfling generals would handle this (overwhelming numbers? Heavy use of archers? Etc).
They'd hire mercenaries. Think of any of the great trade empires of the Italians. There are plenty of humans that would be content to fight for the halflings (doesn't matter how short the employers are, it just matters how free they are with their gold).
Fighting is a dangerous profession. Any halfling of merit would want to spear his kinsmen the horrors of war - but a gangly stranger from far away lands - who cares if he fails to come home.
Quote from: deadDMwalking;627379They'd hire mercenaries. Think of any of the great trade empires of the Italians. There are plenty of humans that would be content to fight for the halflings (doesn't matter how short the employers are, it just matters how free they are with their gold).
Fighting is a dangerous profession. Any halfling of merit would want to spear his kinsmen the horrors of war - but a gangly stranger from far away lands - who cares if he fails to come home.
Auxiliary troops are going to be a big part of it for sure.
Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;627377RPGs tend to portray the fantasy races in a familiar light. Dwarves are dour, alcoholic xenophobes with axes, Elves are androgynous dendrophiles with bows, Halflings are shoeless, voracious pacifists and Humans are greedy, self-righteous imperialists.
There are literally hundreds of different personality types and physical traits amongst our own species; the same should be said of any fantasy race. Relying on these same bland fantasy tropes is boring.
Look no further than Dark Sun for examples of how Halflings (and a number of other races) have been personified in a unique way.
I mentioned this in the other thread as well, but in my homebrew fantasy world, halflings are more like Roman soldiers. Very organized and strategic, and fight in tight disciplined formations. They are most certainly not hairy footed, pipe smoking, bread making pacifists. Also like the Romans, they are very militaristic and expansionist.
Quote from: Daddy Warpig;627324I just realized what Halflings fighting in urban environments would be like:
Home Alone.
Quote from: Jame Rowe;627376I love the imagery conjured by this. Thank you.
:hatsoff:
Quote from: Sacrosanct;6273263 ft tall, 50 pounders against 6 ft tall, 180 pounders? If all things being equal, an infantry squad would fare about as well as a peewee football team would against a varsity team.
so yeah, I don't see halflings putting forth a traditional army for that reason, as well as reasons already presented.
Yet, halfling vs. halfling warfare is the same as human vs. human. In that case, half-pint heavily armored warriors would be possible.
That might be a surreal sight, two Liliputian brigades hacking away at each other.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;6273263 ft tall, 50 pounders against 6 ft tall, 180 pounders? If all things being equal, an infantry squad would fare about as well as a peewee football team would against a varsity team.
Except their hit points are comparable to those of 0-level humans, and a halfling community contains fighters of up to fourth level.
They can hold their own against humans of equal numbers and leadership.
Quote from: Daddy Warpig;627324I just realized what Halflings fighting in urban environments would be like:
Home Alone.
Only if you're being very cheesy.
RPGPundit
Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;627377RPGs tend to portray the fantasy races in a familiar light. Dwarves are dour, alcoholic xenophobes with axes, Elves are androgynous dendrophiles with bows, Halflings are shoeless, voracious pacifists and Humans are greedy, self-righteous imperialists.
There are literally hundreds of different personality types and physical traits amongst our own species; the same should be said of any fantasy race. Relying on these same bland fantasy tropes is boring.
Look no further than Dark Sun for examples of how Halflings (and a number of other races) have been personified in a unique way.
Halflings in Dark Sun will eat you.