Quote from: Kyle Aaron;753692I assume he meant "should" in the sense of "given how much I like it."

I mean, if you only sorta like and enjoy something, there's less of a sense of urgency to doing it than if you really like and enjoy it.

Bingo.

Also I have spent a measurable portion of my income on games and game materials.   If I am not actually gaming, maybe that would have been better spent on my 401k?

Time sunk, too.

Quote from: mcbobbo;753590How do you have fun gaming when you don't game at all?

Mathematically analyzing the game mechanics.

Quote from: soltakss;753719By reading gamebooks, frequenting RPG forums, attending conventions and so on.

I think any hobby that didn't separate this type of participant would be very inclusive.

If you went over to dad's black powder forum to discuss ballistics,  but didn't actually post pics of your shot groupings, they'd be polite at best.  Or ignore you outright, more likely.

Less inclusive groups might start calling one out as a 'poser' or similar.   To be fair, I don't really think 'BNG' goes that far.

Quote from: -E.;753714I find that the more regularly we play the easier it is to get everyone together: when you're extremely sure your buddies are all going to show up, it makes showing up a priority. We're understanding when someone can't make it, of course, but that's by far the exception.

Cheers,
-E.

I think this is very important. I have a baby girl, a psychology practice and a business as trainer and consultant, apart from teaching at two colleges. I have a regular Tuesdays game (now RuneQuest, woot!) and a semi-regular D&D B/X Sundays game that is restarting again. The Tuesdays group play if there are at least 50% of the players present, so we end up playing around 3 of every 4 weeks. Not bad. We miss a session here and there, but the game goes strong. The other group didn't have these rules, and it shows.

But I also agree with Black Vulmea. The definition of active gamer given here is pretty terrible.

Quote from: Imperator;753867But I also agree with Black Vulmea. The definition of active gamer given here is pretty terrible.

What would be a better definition?  Preferably one that's not "if you say you are active, you are"?

I'd be on board with a wider period,  for example.  I'd be on board with exceptions for unavoidable dry spells, e.g. moving.  I'm not so much on board with "I was active in high school", "I enjoy reading the books", etc.

It would be kind of neat if we could arrive at a consensus.  Pie in the sky, I know.  But still.

Quote from: mcbobbo;753876What would be a better definition?  Preferably one that's not "if you say you are active, you are"?

I'd be on board with a wider period,  for example.  I'd be on board with exceptions for unavoidable dry spells, e.g. moving.  I'm not so much on board with "I was active in high school", "I enjoy reading the books", etc.

It would be kind of neat if we could arrive at a consensus.  Pie in the sky, I know.  But still.

It's the obscenity test: I know it when I see it.

Trying to define what an active gamer is, beyond that pretty basic shrug, only holds meaning to those who prefer splitting hairs.

I feel there's nothing to be gained from labeling posters as "gamer" or "not a gamer". "Non-gamer" is becoming the new "Swine", it seems. What happened to judging people's posts on their own merit?

Get a grip, people.

Quote from: The Butcher;753972I feel there's nothing to be gained from labeling posters as "gamer" or "not a gamer". "Non-gamer" is becoming the new "Swine", it seems.

The issue is not that they're a non-gamer, but that they're a bitter non-gamer. People who are not gaming have lots of useful ideas to contribute. Bitter people have nothing useful to contribute.

I never used the term "swine", that's a Punditism.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;753977The issue is not that they're a non-gamer, but that they're a bitter non-gamer. People who are not gaming have lots of useful ideas to contribute. Bitter people have nothing useful to contribute.

I never used the term "swine", that's a Punditism.

So your entire charge is hollow. Even funnier the number of times you've levelled this at me, when the "non-gamer" part has been patently untrue since 2008. Moreso when I apparently game much more frequently than some of my more vocal detractors.

I've played in more face-to-face games than many people who would label me as a non-gamer right now. Whatever. It's not like rpg's are my only hobby.

In any case, I get bored if I game too much for too long. I'm of the firm belief that taking breaks from the hobby is actually good for you.

Personally, I'd find it useful as a motivator.

Plus words work better when we agree on the general meaning.  We have people comparing non-gamer to Swine(tm), people claiming gamer includes never having played, etc.

YMMV

Quote from: Géza Echs;753192I don't have kids, but I can understand spending the hour or so for each. I can't understand being able to get together a group of at least three adults on a weekly basis for years on end. I've never known anyone - gamer or not - that had that much unwavering free time available to them.

I know people who play a weekly sunday afternoon football game, quite a few women who play in a weekly netball league, the guy in the office next to me has choir practice one evening a week, I used to do a language class one evening a week.

It's not that rare a thing.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;753977The issue is not that they're a non-gamer, but that they're a bitter non-gamer. People who are not gaming have lots of useful ideas to contribute. Bitter people have nothing useful to contribute.

:rolleyes:

That's the point I was making a few posts above (not all "non-gamers" are spouting off senseless babble about RPGs on the Internet) and, if memory serves, you were refuting. In any case, I'm glad we're in agreement.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;753977I never used the term "swine", that's a Punditism.

But you use "bitter non-gamer" (BNG) a lot. And the line does get pretty damn blurred at times.

Quote from: mcbobbo;753996Personally, I'd find it useful as a motivator.

I wanted to say that the motivator for gaming should be enjoying games, not getting incensed at people on the Internet. But a recent, funny real-life episode happened to me a few months ago, and suggests that you may have a point.

It was my birthday a few months ago and I was hanging out with a bunch of friends, gamers and non-gamers, and one of the guys from the old gaming crew showed up. I introduced him to the current gaming crew as "this is so-and-so, he used to play RPGs with me too."

I turned to him and the look on his face was priceless. Here was someone who clearly thought of himself as a gamer, even if he hadn't gamed (or even talked about games, with me at least) for nearly a decade. And he was livid, not with rage, but with the realization that he had gone long enough without gaming that I didn't even think of him as a gamer.

Playing RPGs was so central to his identity, to his idea of himself, that in the middle of a years-long and entirely self-imposed gaming drought, he still thought of himself as a gamer.

Long story short, he decided to get his shit together and join my current OD&D game.

Still, on the Internet, among strangers, with no non-verbal cues to communicate friendliness and no alcohol to go around, I'm not sure labeling someone as a "non-gamer" will get them to game, any more than labeling someone a "Swine" will get them to drop the Grey Ranks and try AD&D 1e.

Quote from: danbuter;753993It's not like rpg's are my only hobby.

In any case, I get bored if I game too much for too long. I'm of the firm belief that taking breaks from the hobby is actually good for you.

Right on on both counts. Not my only hobby and it's quite OK to take a break when there are other things competing for your attention.

Quote from: The Butcher;754054Playing RPGs was so central to his identity, to his idea of himself, that in the middle of a years-long and entirely self-imposed gaming drought, he still thought of himself as a gamer.

Long story short, he decided to get his shit together and join my current OD&D game.

FWIW, I was referring to a self-motivator.  Putting my own geek cred into question if I'm not diligent in practicing my hobby.  Otherwise I might get lazy and placate myself by buying yet another PDF I'll never use.

Quote from: The Butcher;754064Right on on both counts. Not my only hobby and it's quite OK to take a break when there are other things competing for your attention.

Agree, totally okay to take a break.  I still feel like people are insinuating an accusatory term that isn't necessarily there.

For my own point of view, at least, it isn't that the 'BNG' is automatically wrong.  It's more like their opinion might be more nuanced by actual play.